Halcyon Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 During math club yesterday, one attendee was an 8 yo girl who had difficulty working with numbers....as opposed to physical or visual representations of numbers. For example, one problem was a subtraction word problem, and she needed to draw out 24 small circles and then cross off the amount representing the subtrahend. She couldn't seem to "convert" the physical NUMBER of items into an actual numerical representation. She is an unschooler and admittedly has done little formal math. Any ideas for how to help her? We could use place value blocks (in addition, she has not learned place value)...I am trying to think of something she could do in the context of a math club, as I am not tutoring her individually (yet! LOL) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 bump. Do people think Miquon might work for her? I do a Miquon day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Is this a homeschooled child? Drawing objects and crossing them out is intentionally taught in our district's math curriculum -- Terc Investigations. It's possible that she's not math-phobic, but has actually been taught that this is how you solve the problem. Edited to add -- I see she's an unschooler. I'd start by showing her some cool 'tricks' like how you don't have to draw all those circles. Perhaps moving her to base 10 blocks would be a good step too, since she's not getting groupings of 10 with her current system. Edited February 29, 2012 by Momling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks. Yes, she's a homeschooler--I will try using base 10 blocks with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Could you look to Singapore for its physical --> representation --> abstract conceptualization? This seems like the first thing, and place value much afterwards. It sounds like she really doesn't have any experience so you might need to start at the beginning. There are books (like Beechick) aimed at somewhat younger children about "real world" math, or maybe something fun and puzzly from MEP involving very small numbers that might work with her limited exposure to larger numbers yet be interesting and not drudgery. Also, is she actually math -phobic or just hasn't learned anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Your question was different from your topic. She doesn't sound "math phobic" to me; she sounds like someone who has never in her life been exposed to that kind of thing and just wasn't sure what the heck the point was. I might have reacted the same way, lol. I would guess the only "help" she needs to just to show her what is going on, and why you're doing that. Not all children need to do that kind of exercise in order to learn math well. Neither my dc nor I would have gotten much out of it. Just sayin'. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Also, is she actually math -phobic or just hasn't learned anything? Her mom says she's math-phobic, but I think the latter. Her mom doesn't like math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Could you look to Singapore for its physical --> representation --> abstract conceptualization? This seems like the first thing, and place value much afterwards. It sounds like she really doesn't have any experience so you might need to start at the beginning. There are books (like Beechick) aimed at somewhat younger children about "real world" math, or maybe something fun and puzzly from MEP involving very small numbers that might work with her limited exposure to larger numbers yet be interesting and not drudgery. Also, is she actually math -phobic or just hasn't learned anything? And I will look at MEP and CSMP- I think she'd enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks. Yes, she's a homeschooler--I will try using base 10 blocks with her. You might also use the base-10 "flats" (100 values) with the C Rod Orange Rods (10s) and the rest as Units/Ones. Either way I'd consider starting with these concrete representations of "place value" and work on modeling numbers using "math names." I like the scheme of giving every place a name, so 365 is 3-Hundreds 6-Tens 5-Units (or Ones if you prefer). Then she could "model" the numbers using rods/blocks when given numerals, or write the numerals if shown a concrete model. Then you can riff that with simple addition and subtraction. But working basic place value with concrete manipulatives is where I'd start. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 You might also use the base-10 "flats" (100 values) with the C Rod Orange Rods (10s) and the rest as Units/Ones. Either way I'd consider starting with these concrete representations of "place value" and work on modeling numbers using "math names." I like the scheme of giving every place a name, so 365 is 3-Hundreds 6-Tens 5-Units (or Ones if you prefer). Then she could "model" the numbers using rods/blocks when given numerals, or write the numerals if shown a concrete model. Then you can riff that with simple addition and subtraction. But working basic place value with concrete manipulatives is where I'd start. Bill This is where I am leaning too. I think I will have a group work with rods and the flats next session. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This is where I am leaning too. I think I will have a group work with rods and the flats next session. Thanks all. RightStart has some "place value" and base-10 cards that are quite inexpensive and a good adjunct to lessons. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Right Start really rocks..Spy Car you rock! Thanks much for the Right Start suggestion for my daughter. She is finally moving ahead in math... We are talking about a child who was clueless about numbers. Absolutely clueless. We will be doing MEP this summer for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Right Start really rocks..Spy Car you rock! Thanks much for the Right Start suggestion for my daughter. She is finally moving ahead in math...We are talking about a child who was clueless about numbers. Absolutely clueless. We will be doing MEP this summer for fun. :blush: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicMom Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Also, is she actually math -phobic or just hasn't learned anything? Her mom says she's math-phobic, but I think the latter. Her mom doesn't like math. :iagree: Kinda sad. I wouldn't treat it as a learning problem as much as a never-was-taught-it problem. I would just go right back to where she's at... which sounds like about first grade? I would recommend MCP Math Level A. Simple workbook, simple straight-forward presentations. You don't even need the Teacher's Manual IMO. This level hones the exact skill you mentioned... making the leap from physical or pictoral objects to writing the numbers. It introduces place value with pictures. She might not need to start at the beginning (but may not hurt). She could probably fly through half the book because of her age and ability, but it will take her through understanding place value and adding 2-digit numbers, carrying, subtracting 1 digit numbers from 2-digit numbers and I think borrowing. Maybe you could suggest this curriculum to her mom as well? For people who are not "mathy" MCP Math is very doable and teachable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 RightStart has some "place value" and base-10 cards that are quite inexpensive and a good adjunct to lessons. Bill I have these-I'll pull them out. Thanks for the reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I have these-I'll pull them out. Thanks for the reminder. Perfect! Don't you love it when you've already got it? :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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