Latin for Children folks: can you help me?

[Alicia64]

I've finally decided -- in almost Feb. (sigh) -- to switch from Lively Latin to Latin for Children.

 

I'm unclear what I need to purchase. Primer A? Does it come with the video? Do I also buy a teacher's edition? What bundle should I get?

 

I appreciate the help -- it's been a rough week!

 

Alley

[Bloggermom]

We did the opposite. We started with Latin for Children and hated it. We went to Lively Latin and the kids are MUCH happier!

[Faithseed]

I would get the Basic Bundle.

In addition, we had the activity book which I sold because I felt it was just busy work, and the history reader, which hasn't been used at all (yet...I really do plan on it).

 

My children have enjoyed LfC A, and we'll be getting B soon.

[Alicia64]

We did the opposite. We started with Latin for Children and hated it. We went to Lively Latin and the kids are MUCH happier!

 

Can you tell me what your kids didn't like about Latin for Children?

I'm so nervous about buying a curriculum (again) that doesn't really work for my boys' personalities.

 

Thanks,

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

I would get the Basic Bundle.

In addition, we had the activity book which I sold because I felt it was just busy work, and the history reader, which hasn't been used at all (yet...I really do plan on it).

 

My children have enjoyed LfC A, and we'll be getting B soon.

 

Where do I find the "basic bundle?" When I look on Amazon, it offers "Primer A" by itself and I'm not sure what else to purchase with it.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Alley

[Dana]

I did the mastery bundle from Classical Academic Press.

You get the DVD and CD along with one copy of everything else.

 

I'm learning with my son, so I got a History Reader, textbook, and Activity book from Amazon for me.

 

When we move to level B, I won't get the activity book for me, but my son enjoys it. You don't start with the history reader until you're about halfway through the textbook, so you can easily delay getting additional copies.

 

We got the Clash Cards but they don't have macrons so I'm not as happy with them.

 

You can get more info at the Classical Academic Press site too.

[Alicia64]

I did the mastery bundle from Classical Academic Press.

You get the DVD and CD along with one copy of everything else.

 

I'm learning with my son, so I got a History Reader, textbook, and Activity book from Amazon for me.

 

When we move to level B, I won't get the activity book for me, but my son enjoys it. You don't start with the history reader until you're about halfway through the textbook, so you can easily delay getting additional copies.

 

We got the Clash Cards but they don't have macrons so I'm not as happy with them.

 

You can get more info at the Classical Academic Press site too.

 

I have two kids, same age. If I purchase the Mastery Bundle. . . what do I also need to purchase for second child? Just Primer A? Or?

 

Thank you!

 

Alley

[Bloggermom]

Can you tell me what your kids didn't like about Latin for Children?

I'm so nervous about buying a curriculum (again) that doesn't really work for my boys' personalities.

Thanks,

Alley

 

Latin for Children puts too much focus on vocabulary and not enough on grammar. Lively Latin teaches more grammar without overwhelming you with the vocabulary words.

[Dana]

I have two kids, same age. If I purchase the Mastery Bundle. . . what do I also need to purchase for second child? Just Primer A? Or?

 

 

For the 2nd child you'd need another textbook (Primer A) which is cheaper on Amazon if you get free shipping.

 

Then it's a choice... if you want to use the Activity Book, you'd need a second one. I like the crossword puzzles for review but I won't be getting one for me when we move to B. If you want the History Reader, you'd probably want a second one. I like us each having our own so we can write in it as we do the translation. You can also look at it first, see what you think, then get another if you want.

 

If you don't want to use the activity book or history reader, go with the basic bundle and get a second text.

[Tarreymere]

Ditching Latin for Children for Latin Prep from Galore Park........I'm tired of making up my own exercises and worksheets for the practice my kids need to master conjugations and declensions, tired of the emphasis on random vocabulary, and tired of the the confusion and lack of emphasis on grammar. And yes, I have the activity book. AND the history reader.

[shanvan]

Ditching Latin for Children for Latin Prep from Galore Park........I'm tired of making up my own exercises and worksheets for the practice my kids need to master conjugations and declensions, tired of the emphasis on random vocabulary, and tired of the the confusion and lack of emphasis on grammar. And yes, I have the activity book. AND the history reader.

 

I am right there with you! :banghead: I am supposed to be making up worksheets for Dd for LFC A right this minute. Instead I am online looking at discussions about other Latin Curriculum. Ds seems to do fine with LFC, but his memory is amazing. Dd needs lots of worksheets to help solidify (and so do I). I find myself repeatedly going back to the book to 'sort things out'. I'm wondering if Lively Latin is better? But then I have Ds who is continuing on with LFC, uggh!

 

Don't know if any of this helps the OP. But i had to comment. I was sooo amazed to read my own thoughts put into words by Rainefox!

[Alicia64]

Ditching Latin for Children for Latin Prep from Galore Park........I'm tired of making up my own exercises and worksheets for the practice my kids need to master conjugations and declensions, tired of the emphasis on random vocabulary, and tired of the the confusion and lack of emphasis on grammar. And yes, I have the activity book. AND the history reader.

 

Gulp. Now I'm scared. I just don't want to make another expensive curriculum mistake.

 

Latin Prep by Galore Park -- what ages is that for? One of my boys is very bright academically, but my other boy is just an average 8 year old. They're both 8. So I don't want to attempt another Latin program that's meant for older ages.

 

Alley

[Blueridge]

I'll jump in...My younger girls had never had any Latin, so I got Latin for Children A for them this year (2 student books, the teacher book, and the DVD set). They LOVE it. I do, too. They enjoy watching the kids run through the vocabulary and chants, and the teacher does a very nice job of teaching the grammar. I asked them just this morning what they thought about their Latin studies this year, and whether we should switch to something more rigorous or just different, and they both said *No way, we are learning tons*. :)

[Alicia64]

I'll jump in...My younger girls had never had any Latin, so I got Latin for Children A for them this year (2 student books, the teacher book, and the DVD set). They LOVE it. I do, too. They enjoy watching the kids run through the vocabulary and chants, and the teacher does a very nice job of teaching the grammar. I asked them just this morning what they thought about their Latin studies this year, and whether we should switch to something more rigorous or just different, and they both said *No way, we are learning tons*. :)

 

What do you think of the earlier criticisms? We did Song School Latin which the boys loved and it turns out that they're by the same makers as Latin for Children. But I'm curious what you think of the criticisms listed here.

 

And thanks!

[shanvan]

What do you think of the earlier criticisms? We did Song School Latin which the boys loved and it turns out that they're by the same makers as Latin for Children. But I'm curious what you think of the criticisms listed here.

 

And thanks!

 

I'll jump in...My younger girls had never had any Latin, so I got Latin for Children A for them this year (2 student books, the teacher book, and the DVD set). They LOVE it. I do, too. They enjoy watching the kids run through the vocabulary and chants, and the teacher does a very nice job of teaching the grammar. I asked them just this morning what they thought about their Latin studies this year, and whether we should switch to something more rigorous or just different, and they both said *No way, we are learning tons*. :)

 

I want to say, that both my kids enjoy LFC. They love the DvDs and online games and videos. The criticisms are going to apply to using LFC with a certain type of kid. Because there are very few practice pages with LFC, students have to be able to hold all the memory work in their minds and then pull out the required information when needed. Some kids have that ability. My Ds does. That's why he has very little trouble with LFC and doesn't need my help often. He gets A's on his tests too.

 

My Dd loves LFC. If she knew I was thinking of switching her to something else she would wonder why. BUT, she doesn't realize all of the extra effort I have to put in to make it successful for her. She just cannot manipulate the info in her brain well if she has not practiced doing so on paper first--sometimes many times. That requires me to design exercises that allow her to work with the vocabulary and grammar, not just recite it. If I don't put in the effort to reteach it with appropriate exercises, she will fail every test. While the teacher does a decent job of teaching the grammar, it's a short lesson and for many kids there aren't enough examples taught for them to actually be able to learn it enough to take the LFC tests and do well. That means they are not learning to mastery.

 

So, you have to know your kids to know if the criticisms would even be valid for your situation. If my Dd were like my Ds I would never have written this post. Instead I would have written a glowing review and told the OP to hit the order button, not knowing that some kids need more.

[happyhomemaker]

:iagree:

 

LFC has been a hit with dd, but she has a really good memory. She's the kind of kid who watches the video once and retains at least 75% of the vocab. She LOVES the video and the chants. I would recommend the program to anyone with a kid with a great memory, but if you think you might have to print out a ton of extra sheets, I would look elsewhere. I can't tell if I am going to be able to use the program with ds or not. He would enjoy it, but I don't know if he will pick up the vocab as quickly.

 

If you do decide on the program, I would get the mastery bundle. You will need two activity books (I think they are good reinforcement), but you could possibly make it with only one student book and copy the few worksheet pages in it to share with both.

[Penelope]

We have enjoyed LFC A, but ds9 wants to try something else for Latin next. He doesn't just want to memorize and he wants to know what it is all leading to. The DVD does go over the grammar, but don't expect the DVD and workbook to be enough. I need to be very involved. I have a couple of other Latin resources that help me get the big picture, because LFC doesn't do it for me at this level and I do not have a Latin background. We will probably move to Galore Park or Henle. Galore Park, according to some old threads here, is best for age 10+, 9 at the earliest.

 

LFC what to buy: we got the activity book but haven't used it. I think flashcards are helpful and you can buy them, but you can also print them out for free from the Classical Academic Press website, or have your student make some, which is probably even better. I would buy the PDF of the tests. CAP has a huge file of free worksheets and even a few tests, also declension charts to print. There are also free computer vocabulary games through Headventure, also through the CAP website. http://classicalacademicpress.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=16

[Hedgehog]

We're very happy with LfC - we have A, and plan on working through B and C as well. I also use Song School Latin with Sniff and Little My.

 

I have the Primer, the Answer Key, the Activity Book, the History Reader and the Chant CDs. Moominmamma and The Snork Maiden use all of them (except the Answer Key - that's just for me!!). If you're unsure what to buy, I'd give Classical Academic Press a call. I did that - from the UK - to resolve a few questions I had and they were very friendly and helpful.

[shanvan]

We have enjoyed LFC A, but ds9 wants to try something else for Latin next. He doesn't just want to memorize and he wants to know what it is all leading to. The DVD does go over the grammar, but don't expect the DVD and workbook to be enough. I need to be very involved. I have a couple of other Latin resources that help me get the big picture, because LFC doesn't do it for me at this level and I do not have a Latin background. We will probably move to Galore Park or Henle. Galore Park, according to some old threads here, is best for age 10+, 9 at the earliest.

 

I think the bold print above is the part of the problem for my Dd too.

 

I would buy the PDF of the tests. CAP has a huge file of free worksheets and even a few tests, also declension charts to print. There are also free computer vocabulary games through Headventure, also through the CAP website. http://classicalacademicpress.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=16

 

Yes, if you buy LFC do buy the tests. They come with a review which is helpful for preparing. Even if you don't want to test, you can use them as assignments.

We've used several programs and LFC is my favorite. I like the DVD much better than I did Latina Christiana, as does my 8yo, plus there are online games. I like that they memorize all the principle parts of the verb at once, not going back and having to do more later. I think they explain things better than LC does. Their derivatives are more complete and they have more cultural info than LC does, too.

 

I also like all the things mentioned above. Latina Christiana was never one of the programs I would have considered.

 

That said, I'm doing it with a 3rd grader and we are going half pace, which gives the memory work more time to settle in. We listen to the vocabulary CD in the car several times a week, too, which helps.

 

My point in my post above was not that Dd has trouble memorizing. What good is all of that memorizing if your Dc cannot use the material being memorized? There simply aren't enough exercises that allow her to practice using that memory work. Then on the tests she is expected to be able to translate, find stems, etc. w/o practice. It is not the memory work that is the problem, it is the lack of useful practice exercises. Though, as mentioned earlier, Ds does not need all the practice. He catches on to the grammar and translation very quickly. BUT, he didn't need much help learning to read either. There really wasn't a lot of teaching involved in his "learning'. I just showed him and he knew phonics and was able to read. Not Dd. She needed more. So, it just depends on the kid whether LFC will provide enough or not. They are planning on publishing practice sheets which should help to address the issue.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

As far as what to get, I would recommend the mastery bundle (Rainbow Resource usually has the lowest price) and one extra primer for your second student. I would let them share the activity book and just use a sheet protector and dry erase marker for the pages. We also do our history reader translations on a separate sheet of paper or dry erase board so I wouldn't get a second copy of that either. I would recommend downloading the extra practice pages that are available on the LfC website for free.

 

As to some of the criticisms:

 

1. It is for kids who learn quickly or have good memories.

 

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. I've used it with 2 children so far who had very different learning styles and abilities and both have done very well with the program. The oldest needed very little help with the program. DD2 needed more practice with the memorization. We went over the new vocabulary and chants every day orally and used some homemade vocabulary cards for review of older material. There is also a chant CD that the student can listen to independently and the games available at Headventureland.

 

2. There are not enough practice pages.

 

Again I disagree. Personally I found that between the primer, activity book, reader, and the free practice pages available on the website provided more than enough practice for both girls. There are also blank worksheets to practice declining nouns and conjugating verbs. All you have to do is pick a couple of vocabulary words to practice.

 

3. Random vocabulary / too much memory work

 

I can see how the vocabulary might seem random at the start compared to a more modern language where you are learning how to greet another person and talk on certain topics. I personally didn't find them to be that random. There were groups of first conjugation verbs that were all regular, groups of feminine nouns many of related to people (woman, girl, sister, daughter, etc.), and the corresponding masculine nouns (man, boy, brother, son, etc.). Once the student has built up enough of a base to start Latin sentences I find their choices to make more sense. There are a variety possible noun and verb combinations for subjects and predicates for simple sentences as well as several choices for subject-linking verb-predicate noun or subject-action verb-direct object. Nor do I think there is too much emphasis on memory work. There is more emphasis at the start of the book just to get a good foundation of words. The words get used more when they start working with sentences. I personally would find trying to translate a sentence where I had to look up many of the words to be tedious.

 

4. Not enough grammar

 

I actually found LfC to provide more grammar that LC or PL which was what I originally compared it too. The primer A book is written to be used with 3rd graders. Given that many 3rd graders don't have much background in English grammar yet, I wouldn't expect there to be but so much grammar in the course. Otherwise you end up having to teach English grammar first and then Latin grammar (kind of like my Spanish teacher had to do in high school at times).

Edited January 27, 2012 by Narrow Gate Academy
finish thought

[Tarreymere]

Gulp. Now I'm scared. I just don't want to make another expensive curriculum mistake.

 

Latin Prep by Galore Park -- what ages is that for? One of my boys is very bright academically, but my other boy is just an average 8 year old. They're both 8. So I don't want to attempt another Latin program that's meant for older ages.

 

Alley

 

My daughter is eight. We just got the Latin Prep. So far I can say that it flows better than LFC and makes more sense to me. Dd is happy with it. Of course I can't say yet how it will work out over time.

 

We did download all the extra worksheets and things put up by parents on the LFC website. Most of those were simple templates for writing out conjugations or declensions in a chart form. I haven't found making charts like that to be helpful.

 

What my kids need to be able to completely demonstrate understanding as far as I am concerned is to see the verb or noun in a sentence and be able to tell me what verb or noun it is and what that particular conjugation or decelension means in context. It is the context that is important, so I'm not interested in having dd fill out a collection of charts just to list all of the endings.

 

I want her to be able to read a sentence in Latin and tell me if that noun is being used as a direct object or whatever in that particular sentence without looking it up. That means practice in reading Latin sentences with nouns of the declension we are studying.

 

I want her to tell me if the verb in a particular sentence is being used to mean he, she, or it, or if it is written to mean the plural you. To do that consistently my kids need more practice reading sentences in Latin and in translating English sentences into Latin than is available in LFC, the activity guide, and in the practice sheets on the website.

 

I had to make up worksheets that used verbs and nouns in English and in Latin IN CONTEXT and ask my kids to work out what they meant and why. Dd is in second grade by age but in third grade grammar, so I don't think it is too taxing to expect her to identify a direct object or the correct English pronoun associated with a given Latin verb.

 

The crossword puzzles and matching activities in LFC are a nice adjunct, but really rather juvenile even for my dd. We need more meaty exercises to actually learn the material, then later she can do a crossword puzzle or wordfind activity for fun.

 

Latin Prep seems to give more sentence work of the kind I am looking for. I hope it works out.

 

Edited to add: We aren't of the philosophy that kids don't need to learn grammar until late elementary, so that does make a difference in our preference. I know I personally would have a hard time trying to learn another language without knowing at least the basics of English grammar. Dd is almost finished with R&S English 3 and she is comfortable with the grammar in Latin Prep, if anyone finds that information helpful.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Rainefox

[shanvan]

My daughter is eight. We just got the Latin Prep. So far I can say that it flows better than LFC and makes more sense to me. Dd is happy with it. Of course I can't say yet how it will work out over time.

 

We did download all the extra worksheets and things put up by parents on the LFC website. Most of those were simple templates for writing out conjugations or declensions in a chart form. I haven't found making charts like that to be helpful.

 

What my kids need to be able to completely demonstrate understanding as far as I am concerned is to see the verb or noun in a sentence and be able to tell me what verb or noun it is and what that particular conjugation or decelension means in context. It is the context that is important, so I'm not interested in having dd fill out a collection of charts just to list all of the endings.

 

I want her to be able to read a sentence in Latin and tell me if that noun is being used as a direct object or whatever in that particular sentence without looking it up. That means practice in reading Latin sentences with nouns of the declension we are studying.

 

I want her to tell me if the verb in a particular sentence is being used to mean he, she, or it, or if it is written to mean the plural you. To do that consistently my kids need more practice reading sentences in Latin and in translating English sentences into Latin than is available in LFC, the activity guide, and in the practice sheets on the website.

 

I had to make up worksheets that used verbs and nouns in English and in Latin IN CONTEXT and ask my kids to work out what they meant and why. Dd is in second grade by age but in third grade grammar, so I don't think it is too taxing to expect her to identify a direct object or the correct English pronoun associated with a given Latin verb.

 

The crossword puzzles and matching activities in LFC are a nice adjunct, but really rather juvenile even for my dd. We need more meaty exercises to actually learn the material, then later she can do a crossword puzzle or wordfind activity for fun.

 

Latin Prep seems to give more sentence work of the kind I am looking for. I hope it works out.

 

Edited to add: We aren't of the philosophy that kids don't need to learn grammar until late elementary, so that does make a difference in our preference. I know I personally would have a hard time trying to learn another language without knowing at least the basics of English grammar. Dd is almost finished with R&S English 3 and she is comfortable with the grammar in Latin Prep, if anyone finds that information helpful.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:Absolutely with the bold print above. I have to say, I'm getting tired of reading tips on how to do better on the memory work. That is not my or Dd's issue. She struggles with being able apply what is being memorized in the types of exercises you described above. No amount of memorizing will remedy that! More practice pages as you described are what is missing in the program, and CAP must realize there is a need since they are developing pdfs to sell.

 

ETA: I'm looking into Latin Prep too. Are you using it exclusively now, or in addition to LFC?

[HeidiKC]

Well, this is the most interesting and useful review I've read of LfC. We are using it and love it, but:

 

- my son generally learns things very easily and retains info well, also has a great memory for things he's learned

- I'm just now (halfway through B) beginning to see that more work with sentences would be better - as a pp mentioned. The History Readers are ok, but I guess not quite what I'd like. They are good practice, but there isn't any instruction in them or help with learning how to decode sentences. I might supplement next year with a curriculum that does more of that.

 

I would not get the darn Activity Guide! Not only did it seem like a lot of busy work, but I don't think my son learned much from it. The pages were sometimes cluttered or mazes that were very narrow, etc. I think you'd be better off printing off the free worksheets and conjugation charts to fill out for each chapter, etc.

 

Other than the issue mentioned above with translating sentences, I think the grammar has been great. In fact, I think it might be a bit hard for an 8yo, especially when you move to LfC B. We did A in 5th grade and B this year for 6th. Ds is a very strong student, and I feel like it's not below his level, but about right. We would have been ok starting in 4th grade, but I'm glad we didn't begin in 3rd.

 

We have the Clash Cards, but I'd skip them and print out the free flashcards. You can have your kids add the derivatives to them.

 

Good luck. We really love it and think the DVD is just great.