southernm Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can a child be gifted in areas of logic, vocab, critical thinking, and comprehension but not in basic areas like reading and math? DS who is almost 7 has always had a more advanced view of the world and really excels in the areas listed above. He is flying through logic countdown and uses vocabulary that is not typical of a first grader. However, he is an emergent reader who reads way better than he gives himself credit for and seems to think that having to sound out a word equates to failure. In math he does well except when we first started math facts he didn't seem to trust himself to memorize them so computed everything! His fine motor skills are very behind as well. I'm just trying to figure this kid out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would encourage you to look into getting him evaluated for being "twice exceptional" (2E). Kids who are gifted AND learning disabled often have their gifts mask their deficits and the other way around. Someone described it as having their head in the freezer and their feet in the oven. The average may be room temperature, but that paints a very misleading portrait of what's going on. I've got at least 2 and possibly 3 kids who are 2E. With my oldest, the giftedness means that she tests on the low end of normal on certain CAPD screening tests; however, the AudD. thinks that she's starting from a much higher-than-usual level and if she were compared against the norms for other gifted kids (which are not available at this time), she'd probably fall on the tail end of that particular bell curve. With my youngest, her autism means that she tests artificially low on formal cognitive assessments. The psychologist noted that she witnessed things that DD2 did that demonstrated understanding of various concepts (such as spontaneously grouping objects together by color) but since DD2 didn't perform on cue during the cognitive assessment, they don't count. The result of the cognitive assessment is a floor, and probably a significant underestimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 A child can be anything. Quite literally so. "An average child", of a by-the-book neat development, who is on a neat "grade level" without much oscillations between skills and interests, is a statistical figure, an approximation, an idealization of a kind perhaps, that rarely actually exists in reality. Especially amongst children that are actively dealt with, fairly intensely, in a setting such a homeschooling, which ensures the child will advance, and probably not at a neat, equal pace. Most people freak out when they in reality should not. My attitude has always been that if you have a happy and a healthy child, who is not continuously significantly behind in any major academic / life area with great struggle, and who progresses in all areas (even if not "neatly"), the chances are that everything is on track and there is no need to worry. Your son, if I gather correctly, has advanced reasoning, but his foundational skills are not fully mastered yet. That is fine, he needs those skills as a tool to learn further and if he is mastering them well, he will get there even if he does not seem advanced at this point. Motorically children can often be behind where they are intellectually, too, and fine motor skills are especially a problem among boys. You just meet him where he is in all areas and take it from there (yeah, sounds so simple, while it does get more complex in reality - but it does not have to be complicated, if you know what I mean). Children can be all over the place; in fact, most children probably are, but it is simply not "obvious" because traditionally schooled children are not dealt with so intensely as homeschoolers. So homeschooling tends to "exacerbate" - and render more visible - that which is actually quite normal. By-the-book development is an idealization, forgo that idea of a "typical X grader". These are good as general guidelines, but not more than that. Sort of, to check whether you are significantly off or not. They are not a "Bible" of child development and nothing is "wrong" with your child if he seems to be all over the place so young. Even older children are sometimes all over the place. It makes things fun. :lol: Sounds like he might be having some perfectionist issues there, though. Extremely common, particularly among bright kids. Instruments and sports are good for that for many kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can a child be gifted in areas of logic, vocab, critical thinking, and comprehension but not in basic areas like reading and math? DS who is almost 7 has always had a more advanced view of the world and really excels in the areas listed above. He is flying through logic countdown and uses vocabulary that is not typical of a first grader. However, he is an emergent reader who reads way better than he gives himself credit for and seems to think that having to sound out a word equates to failure. In math he does well except when we first started math facts he didn't seem to trust himself to memorize them so computed everything! His fine motor skills are very behind as well. I'm just trying to figure this kid out! I'd say let him keep computing. Your son is trying to learn math from a Constructivist perspective, and you didn't realize it. :001_smile: Just keep letting him solve those facts again and again in his own way, and the efficiency and automation will come eventually. When it comes, it will be stronger than if you just had him memorize flashcards. (My two cents.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd say let him keep computing. Your son is trying to learn math from a Constructivist perspective, and you didn't realize it. :001_smile: Just keep letting him solve those facts again and again in his own way, and the efficiency and automation will come eventually. When it comes, it will be stronger than if you just had him memorize flashcards. (My two cents.) :iagree: We drilled facts for a bit last summer because I thought we 'should' based on the math dd8 was doing that month (MM Fractions 1 blue). It wasn't the best use of our time so after a few days I stopped drilling the cards and just kept going with our summer fractions camp. Just doing math will get the job done for many kids. They learn mult/div facts by just using them daily. I even bought Times Tables (dumb) but it was fruitless. I should have trusted my instinct. Dd8 is doing prealg now and still doesn't know them to automaticity. Yet, she cruises through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernm Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I'd say let him keep computing. Your son is trying to learn math from a Constructivist perspective, and you didn't realize it. :001_smile: Just keep letting him solve those facts again and again in his own way, and the efficiency and automation will come eventually. When it comes, it will be stronger than if you just had him memorize flashcards. (My two cents.) I had no idea about that (and I was a teacher). I have a lot of reading to do now! I'm just trying to figure out how to help him best. It's so frustrating to have him use a vocabulary above the way normal adults talk yet not be able to read leveled readers. The child won't even use the word, "right" it's "correct" or "accurate". Last night he informed me that something on tv was not "appropriate for a child his age". We will be heading back to the states soon and may let him try PS. I'm terrified a teacher will make a quick assesment of him, classify him as low, and treat him as such. I'm going to be walking on egg shells the first few months if we do send him back! Edited January 11, 2012 by southernm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Sounds like The Sponge! She is great CONCEPTUALLY at math, but not at remembering facts and steps. I use Miquon. Miquon is wonderful at using concepts/discovery for math. Dd has been doing multiplication for a while in Miquon with great success, even though she still has trouble remembering 7+2. With reading, I've found that she is stilted but can read pretty much anything in that same stilted way. I have her read picture books aloud mostly because she's so visual, or science books because of the combo of visual plus science. I figure the reading issues will improve more with practice. She's not used to reading as she just finished vision therapy to correct some issues. It's much better than it used to be. She will read in a stilted and slow manner in the 1st grade readers, but read advanced texts or scripture the same way, at exactly the same speed, and with about the same level of comprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanM Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm just trying to figure out how to help him best. It's so frustrating to have him use a vocabulary above the way normal adults talk yet not be able to read leveled readers. The child won't even use the word, "right" it's "correct" or "accurate". Last night he informed me that something on tv was not "appropriate for a child his age". We will be heading back to the states soon and may let him try PS. I'm terrified a teacher will make a quick assesment of him, classify him as low, and treat him as such. I'm going to be walking on egg shells the first few months if we do send him back! My older ds was a lot like yours when he was younger. He did not read early, but his understanding was very advanced. Now at age 12, his reading comprehension is extremely high. In math, he would never accept an algorithm, he had to understand it for himself. jenbrdsly put it very well that he was trying to learn math from a Constructivist perspective. It's been a wild ride, and often trying to teach this child has been very difficult! It is very worth it though, and I've earned every gray hair on my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Button is rather like that. Very precociously logical & knowledgeable, too, with a glorious vocabulary and precise speech; but he lagged on reading b/c he wouldn't tolerate us reading to him for a long time, and is a perfectionist. All the PPs have had excellent perspectives, and I will only add a few resources that worked/are working very well for us. For reading, might he enjoy working through the Phonics Pathways book? and/or Reading Pathways. They are nicely systematic, so that the child has always been taught what he is asked to do, which helped Button immensely for a while. Then, about halfway through, he started absolutely hating phonics so I'm taking a break from it. Reading-wise, he really has enjoyed (with the exception of the poetry, which I still require him to read) the Free & Treadwell readers for reading practice. We started with Primer, and I would read one page (a very short amount of text) and have him read it back, for 5 or 10 minutes or one story. We repeated a story 'till he could read it well. Now we are in the Second Reader, and I read a story one day, then he does it back over the next day or two. The language is beautiful -- they are vintage books, and in the public domain, though I have hard copies -- the stories are interesting, and he has felt very successful. Your math sounds in hand, esp. with the advice you've gotten. I myself just discovered MEP math, which DS is loving loving loving right now. It's free, and every fifth lesson is a review, so you can start simple and move quickly to where he's more challenged if you need to. much luck! I've always thought it was ironic that Button doesn't do the Precocious Reading that so many bright children seem to do ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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