BC Calculus question

[Hoggirl]

If your kiddos are doing BC Calculus (home, self-study, on-line, bricks & mortar private or public school) what topic are they on at the beginning of this spring semester? If they are using a Larson text, an edition and chapter would be super to know as well.

[8filltheheart]

If your kiddos are doing BC Calculus (home, self-study, on-line, bricks & mortar private or public school) what topic are they on at the beginning of this spring semester? If they are using a Larson text, an edition and chapter would be super to know as well.

 

Ds isn't here, but I am sitting at his desk. His book is open to a section labelled indefinite integrals and partial fractions. (I am assuming this is what he was working on before he left. :) ) This is in the AoPS cal book, chapter 5 out of 9. (He is taking their online class which completes the book the beginning of April.)

[Teachin'Mine]

I think this would still be classified as Calculus AB, but dd has done asymptotes of rational functions and will do solids of revolution II: washers. I think the BC topics begin in another 20 lessons or so as the first 2/3 of the text is AB and the last third has topics from BC.

[Hoggirl]

Both of your students are farther along than my ds. He is in a charter school now. I am really worried about the pacing for the class. They are just now starting Differential Equations, I believe.

 

The teacher announced how far they need to get in the textbook and the pace looks to be almost at one section per day to get there. They do have classes that are an hour an 23 minutes long.

 

Just worried. It is so hard not being in control anymore. *Sigh*

[Teachin'Mine]

Oh my - differentials are in lesson 29 in Saxon. Could he work ahead on his own? If he plans to take the AP, he'll probably need to work at a much quicker pace than the class. You may want to call the school and ask for the AP scores from last year. That will give you an idea of how well prepared, or not, the students are by the time of the AP test. That's got to be incredibly frustrating. :grouphug:

[Kathy in Richmond]

When I teach Calc BC, I like to be on techniques of integration at this point in the year (more or less).

 

Cynthia - Differential equations is one of the BC topics, and is often left till the end of the course. So it's not necessarily a bad thing that his instructor is there now. He'll have less to cover later on that way. What textbook is he using?

 

You might want to get him started in a review guide or two now to build up speed and to keep the material fresh as he progresses to new topics.

[Hoggirl]

When I teach Calc BC, I like to be on techniques of integration at this point in the year (more or less).

 

Cynthia - Differential equations is one of the BC topics, and is often left till the end of the course. So it's not necessarily a bad thing that his instructor is there now. He'll have less to cover later on that way. What textbook is he using?

 

You might want to get him started in a review guide or two now to build up speed and to keep the material fresh as he progresses to new topics.

 

I was hoping you would weigh in. He is using a Larson textbook. He's at school so I cannot tell you the edition. We have a similar text at home. They are in chapter 6 which coincides with the Larson text I have at home. Would "techniques of integration" be the equivalent of chapter 8 in the textbook he has? Chapter 7 is Applications of Integration and Chapter 8 is Integration Techniques.

 

Bearing in mind that I know NOTHING about any of this having only had one semester of Calculus in college a hundred years ago, I did go through the Princeton AP review guide with him last night. Given the topics that are covered in there it appears to me that they need to get through Chapter 10 to cover all the BC material. There are 20 topics listed in the AP review guide, and it appears that they have been through 13 of those, though it is hard to tell as the order seems different from the text. As an example, differential equations are topic 19 yet that is covered in Chapter 6 of the Larson text. It's really hard for me to tell b/c the topics in the textbook do not seem to line up with the topics on the Princeton review guide.

 

The teacher plans to give AB tests a few times in the semester to keep material fresh. My understanding is that this will NOT be during class time. The guy is an engineer from GA Tech and seems to be on the ball. When we had parent teacher conferences last semester I did ask him about pacing, and I plan to do the same again this semester.

 

Ds gets VERY bristly/defensive when I ask him about this. It's like I am insulting the school or teacher. He seems to think it is all fine. Part of me wonders if he would be better off just taking the AB portion. When I suggested that he again got extremely frustrated with me. It's all part of that, "I am not homeschooled anymore," mindset. Very aggravating to me.

 

The main reason I want him to do well on the exam is for admission - not college credit. I think he is going to have some pretty tough schools on his short list, and not doing well on this exam will hurt him severely, I think. He is young, but he truly is capable. I am just going to hate for him to not do as well as he could because the teacher didn't cover all the material, kwim? But, he is not going to be willing to work independently with me - not that I could teach him b/c I couldn't.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

ETA: Trying to piece all of this together from the posts...it appears he should be on chapter 7 or 8 an they are only on 6. :(

Edited January 11, 2012 by Hoggirl

[Hoggirl]

Double post - sorry.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Hoggirl

[Caroline]

Are you sure he is doing the textbook in order? I teach AP Calculus AB and I do it out of order of the textbook. My DS is in a BC class at his school and they do it completely out of order of the text book. In fact, his teacher barely uses the textbook, but has a history of all 4's and 5's. (His teacher is a UF engineer, and I am a GT engineer.)

 

Also, if the Saxon book teaches AB then BC, it cannot be compared to the Larson book. The Larson book has many of the BC topics mixed in-parametrics, integration techniques, etc.

[Hoggirl]

Are you sure he is doing the textbook in order? I teach AP Calculus AB and I do it out of order of the textbook. My DS is in a BC class at his school and they do it completely out of order of the text book. In fact, his teacher barely uses the textbook, but has a history of all 4's and 5's. (His teacher is a UF engineer, and I am a GT engineer.)

 

Also, if the Saxon book teaches AB then BC, it cannot be compared to the Larson book. The Larson book has many of the BC topics mixed in-parametrics, integration techniques, etc.

 

The textbook is being done in order.

 

They have covered:

Chapter 1 Preparation for Calculus

Chapter 2 Limits and Their Properties

Chapter 3 Differentiation

Chapter 4 Applications of Differentiation

Chapter 5 Integration

Chapter 6 Differential Equations - this is where they are now.

 

The teacher said they need to cover sort of "into" chapter 11. Remaining chapters between 6 and 11 are:

Chapter 7 Application of Integration

Chapter 8 Integration Techniques, L'Hopital's Rule, and Improper Integrals

Chapter 9 Infinite Series

Chapter 10 Conics, Parametric Equations, and Polar Coordinates

Chapter 11 Vectors and the Geometry of Space

 

Now, I must say this is out of the Larson text we have at home as far as chapters and titles are concerned. It is a 5th edition. I believe the edition they have at school is the 4th edition, but I think the line up pretty much the same.

 

The idea was that they would do at least *most* of AB in the fall and BC in the spring. The school is on a 4 x 4 block schedule, so their classes are longer.

 

I have no idea how hard this material is. There are about 78 class days until the exam (if we don't get snow - bleh), and, according to what the teacher said another 35 - 38 topics to cover the material. That seems like an awfully fast pace to me, but maybe it isn't.

 

I have sent the teacher an e-mail. A delicate situation b/c I don't want to tick him off, but I also want to make sure ds is getting what he needs. I suggested to ds last night that perhaps he would be better off just doing the AB exam, and he about blew a gasket. He was really "insulted" for lack of a better word.

 

ETA: Thanks for trying to help! I appreciate it!

[Kathy in Richmond]

I found this Table of Contents online for Larson's 9th Edition. It seems to line up with what you're saying here.

 

That particular text does cover the differential equations unit on the early side - good! After the first half of the course, there's some flexibility in the order in which the remaining topics can be covered. So I'd revise my previous answer to say that I'd prefer to be in Chapter 7 right now - not far off from where your son is at all.:)

 

He will need all of the material in Chapters 1 through 10 for the BC exam. I personally like to finish up by the end of March, leaving the month of April for review and test prep. Your son's teacher, depending on the speed from here on out, may be planning to teach the new material a bit longer than that. Has he not given out a syllabus? He must have submitted one to the College Board in order to be approved as an AP teacher. In any case, I wouldn't worry too much; he has enough time left to finish.

 

On the sensitive teen boy stuff - well, that's par for the course sometimes. Most of us have been there with one of our kids at one time or another. Don't lose heart - they do come out on the other side - eventually! My son went through a phase like that, but now at 23 he thinks that his parents are pretty smart once again and listens to their advice.;)

 

I can't emphasize how much I think it's helpful to review with past AP questions between now and May. But if he's not willing to do that with you at home, I guess you'll have to trust that the teacher is going to do this. I'm tutoring my public-schooled nephew in AP chem this year, and I pull my hair out regularly over some of his teacher's methods... But, hey, having an engineer from GA Tech as a teacher is great (& not just because I happen to be married to one :D). I bet that he really knows his stuff technically.

 

Your son is one smart cookie & I wouldn't limit him to the AB exam.

 

ETA: I see that while I was typing, you posted the TOC for Larson's 5th edition. Your teacher is correct about the BC coverage.

[Hoggirl]

Thanks again, Kathy.

 

Yes, the teacher plans to review with specific problems all throughout the semester. Particularly refreshing the AB material. At the beginning of the school year he emphasized that there was no reason why everyone in the class could not earn a 4 or 5 on the exam. The teacher "gets" that success on the exam is the goal. The syllabus that ds received is not that specific re: topics, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't classify what any of his teachers hands out as a "true" syllabus. Although, the AP World History syllabus probably is.

 

My main concern is time. However, it appears that maybe chapters 7 & 8 are simply extensions/applications of what has already been covered?? At least maybe to some extent?? So maybe there *is* time to get to everything that is necessary. I think the first semester (AB) had some haves and have nots. The GC told me that some parents were saying the class was too easy while others were saying the class was too hard! I do know that four or five students from last semester are not taking the BC portion this semester, so perhaps the pace will pick up a bit.

 

Thanks for the reassurances. Time will tell.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Thanks again, Kathy.

My main concern is time. However, it appears that maybe chapters 7 & 8 are simply extensions/applications of what has already been covered?? At least maybe to some extent?? So maybe there *is* time to get to everything that is necessary. I think the first semester (AB) had some haves and have nots. The GC told me that some parents were saying the class was too easy while others were saying the class was too hard! I do know that four or five students from last semester are not taking the BC portion this semester, so perhaps the pace will pick up a bit.

 

In my experience, the material in chapters 8 and 9 is the most time-consuming, while chapters 7 and 10 (& the intro to Vectors) tend to go a little faster. None of them should take more than 3 weeks to learn at a normal pace. Fwiw, I checked my son's old records, and he was half-way through techniques of integration on Jan 11, and he finished up all the material (including differential equations) by mid-March. And when I tutored another nephew in calc 2 last summer (he's at Vanderbilt), they did all of the BC material in 5 weeks. So there's time!!

[Caroline]

In my experience, the material in chapters 8 and 9 is the most time-consuming, while chapters 7 and 10 (& the intro to Vectors) tend to go a little faster. None of them should take more than 3 weeks to learn at a normal pace. Fwiw, I checked my son's old records, and he was half-way through techniques of integration on Jan 11, and he finished up all the material (including differential equations) by mid-March. And when I tutored another nephew in calc 2 last summer (he's at Vanderbilt), they did all of the BC material in 5 weeks. So there's time!!

 

Having participated in the AP Summer Institute for this class, I agree with Kathy. Chapter 9 will take the longest, closely followed by 8. I really think he has time.

 

If he were my kid (and I am doing this with my kid,) I would start him going through 5 Steps to a 5 or one of those review books now, just to keep up his derivative skills. Some students start to lose those as they go through integral calculus.

[Hoggirl]

Having participated in the AP Summer Institute for this class, I agree with Kathy. Chapter 9 will take the longest, closely followed by 8. I really think he has time.

 

If he were my kid (and I am doing this with my kid,) I would start him going through 5 Steps to a 5 or one of those review books now, just to keep up his derivative skills. Some students start to lose those as they go through integral calculus.

 

His teacher has made a point of saying that they will review material from last semester throughout this semester so they don't "lose" that. At some level, I have to just trust the teacher. He has not e-mailed me back yet, but ds did say he told them where his goal was for them by spring break. If they can make it (we'll see - I'm still kind of doubting his ability to get there, but I should at least give the guy a chance. At least he "gets" where they need to be and has a goal), I will stop fretting. If they don't, I have two married friends who were both math majors (recent) who do all kinds of tutoring, so I will hit one of them up if the need arises.

[Teachin'Mine]

As your son is in 10th grade, is there a benefit to him taking the AP this year as opposed to waiting until next year when he'll have completed Calculus 3? Do admissions take into account when the AP test is taken, or are they just interested in the score? I'm asking because I haven't been planning on dd taking the test this year.

[kiana]

As your son is in 10th grade' date=' is there a benefit to him taking the AP this year as opposed to waiting until next year when he'll have completed Calculus 3? Do admissions take into account when the AP test is taken, or are they just interested in the score? I'm asking because I haven't been planning on dd taking the test this year.[/quote']

 

Some things in calc 1-2 are not reviewed much in calc 3. If this is done, it'll be imperative to continue practicing calc 1-2 techniques.

 

The chapters on differential equations, applications of integration and differentiation (because these will just be applications of SINGLE-variable calculus), and series are especially likely to drop out of sight.

[Hoggirl]

As your son is in 10th grade' date=' is there a benefit to him taking the AP this year as opposed to waiting until next year when he'll have completed Calculus 3? Do admissions take into account when the AP test is taken, or are they just interested in the score? I'm asking because I haven't been planning on dd taking the test this year.[/quote']

 

As of now, there is no Cal 3 offered. He will likely take AP Stats and/or Discrete Mathematics as this is what is offered at his school. Dual enrollment is available, but I doubt he goes this route. For one thing, he is a grade skip and won't be able to drive until he is a senior. So, the practical aspects of dual enrolling are challenging (the school he attends is in a town 30 minutes from where we live).

[Teachin'Mine]

Some things in calc 1-2 are not reviewed much in calc 3. If this is done, it'll be imperative to continue practicing calc 1-2 techniques.

 

The chapters on differential equations, applications of integration and differentiation (because these will just be applications of SINGLE-variable calculus), and series are especially likely to drop out of sight.

 

Thank you. We may need to rethink our plans. Right now that $85 could be better spent on texts. :tongue_smilie:

[Teachin'Mine]

As of now, there is no Cal 3 offered. He will likely take AP Stats and/or Discrete Mathematics as this is what is offered at his school. Dual enrollment is available, but I doubt he goes this route. For one thing, he is a grade skip and won't be able to drive until he is a senior. So, the practical aspects of dual enrolling are challenging (the school he attends is in a town 30 minutes from where we live).

 

Then it definitely makes sense for him to take it this year. It sounds like his teacher will do just fine in preparing them for the test. I agree that I wouldn't sell him short by having him go with only the AB.