Blessed with seven Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Okay, I was all set to do AAS, I love the "idea" of SWR but just can't get my head wrapped around the manual...I really need a structured lesson plan. I also am going to use the /E/ sound for Y but...I like how the WISE Guide is set up w/ spelling lists etc..for a struggling older speller verses going through level after level of AAS If you had an older struggling speller, 6th grade level, an 8 year old...loves to write but needs to get busy w/ a formal spelling program and younger ones learning to read...what would you use? Thanks! Kim (homeschooling mom of 7) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I started with WRTR then a friend gave me her copy of SWR. Either will work fine. AAS was just too expensive long term and dd11 (younger at the time) would have went nuts starting at level 1. SWR and WRTR are really not difficult. Forget all the other things you've read. Basically you give them the diagnostic test to find out where they should start. Review the phonogram cards each day until they get them down, then once a week, then maybe once in a while. Let's say your 6th grader tests into list M. Turn to list M-1. At the top of the page it will tell you what rule pages to build if it is a new year. Look in the manual under that step and it will give you step by step instructions on how to do the rule page. Then you teach the list. There are some great videos on youtube of a certified SWR trainer teaching a lesson. WRTR is basically the same thing but the rule pages are all built up front. It takes us about 20-25 minutes a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsrae Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I've read the Spalding book and am currently using PR. Phonics Roadis more than just spelling--it is considered a complete LA program, I believe. (We're only in Level 1, so I don't know for sure!) But I am loving the gentle, methodical method of PR, and I am excited to see how the skills will build for my DD. We tried OPGTR for phonics last year in kindy, and it just frustrated her. She is having real success as she spells words and has more confidence as she reads. I don't know if that helps or not, but I think it would be great to have all the school-aged kids go through it. Everyone should start at Level 1 and learn all the sounds and songs--the olders can accelerate through and the littles can go at their own pace and learn reading skills as well as spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Spalding, for learners of every age. SWR, Phonics Road, and AAS are spin-offs of Spalding (Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual). Spalding is really very simple: teach the first 45 phonograms, start teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List, continue teaching the phonograms. Rinse and repeat. You can start two children together who are different ages; eventually you have to spend time with each one, but you'd be using the same manual, phonograms, and spelling list. The difference is in how quickly you can generally move with an older child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Okay..see...I complicated SWR WAY TOO MUCH!! Do you all do the finger spelling in WRTR? How do they know which phonogram to use if you don't? With younger children, I have WRTR 4th and 5th Edition, do you just start teaching the phonograms and have them learn to write them, then when their writing takes off start the lists? This is one reason why I didn't want to use it for my younger son as he is chomping at the bit to read but his writing is not as good, he is still learning to write. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Okay..see...I complicated SWR WAY TOO MUCH!! You'd be in good company. Lots of people do that. :D Do you all do the finger spelling in WRTR? How do they know which phonogram to use if you don't? Spalding (remember: the method is Spalding. WRTR is the manual) does teach "finger spelling," although it isn't called that. When you are analyzing a word for the first time, and more than one phonogram *could* be used, you just tell them which one. Otherwise, you analyze the word to see if the dc can reason it out. Not a big deal. :-) With younger children, I have WRTR 4th and 5th Edition, do you just start teaching the phonograms and have them learn to write them, then when their writing takes off start the lists? You teach the phonograms, which means children can write them by dictation and recite them by sight. If you're using the fifth edition, you teach the first 45 phonograms, then begin the spelling list; if you're using the fourth, you teach the first 54. "When their writing takes off" doesn't mean anything to me. :confused: This is one reason why I didn't want to use it for my younger son as he is chomping at the bit to read but his writing is not as good, he is still learning to write. You don't separate learning to read and spell from learning to write with Spalding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Okay...so...how does Spalding use the finger spelling, I did not understand that? Also..I know that WRTR :)....do both the 4th and 5th editions have the spelling lists? I really just want to use it for spelling w/out the language aspect of grammar/writing etc.. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Here is the video I told you about. There are others on youtube when you have some time to look around. The "finger spelling" really helps dd8 to visualize the letters of the word. Also agreeing with Ellie, you simply tell the student which phonogram to use if they don't know. I will say that very quickly they catch on. This is dd8's second year and I rarely have to tell her which phonogram to use. The program will take you a few times to really get down a system that works for you but after that it is very simple. Just to add for your younger kiddo both Spalding and SWR have enrichment activities which also teach beginning grammar and other areas of "Language Arts". Just FYI when I started with WRTR Ellie was a Godsend and I don't think I would have made it through without her tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 For my youngers girls I started with AAS1 and then moved to PR, accelerating at this point. For my younger boys we are/will be using the AAS1/IEW PAL combination and then PR at regular pacing because they will start earlier. Neither program is necessary with PR but I like the gentle approach in AAS1 with the fun farm theme of PAL. For my older DD11 we are accelerating through PR, finishing PR3 this month with plans to finish PR4 this school year (so PR1-PR4 in about 18 months skipping the PR2 Lit Study). The cost of four levels of PR in such a short time was difficult to swallow but I did manage to get PR1 for $50 on ebay, and PR2 for about $120 here on the sale board. The fact that I will use them for all five DC helped negate the up front cost and I really love the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Okay...so...how does Spalding use the finger spelling, I did not understand that? Also..I know that WRTR :)....do both the 4th and 5th editions have the spelling lists? I really just want to use it for spelling w/out the language aspect of grammar/writing etc.. Kim All editions of Writing Road to Reading include the Extended Ayres List. Spalding doesn't even mention "finger spelling." Using the fingers to help children visualize the phonograms used in each word (or each syllable of a word) is suggested but not emphasized. You won't find it mentioned in editions 1-4. It's only mentioned briefly in the 5th edition (pp. 48, 49): "Use fingers to provide a visual clue of individual sounds, or use arms to denote syllables..." You just hold up one hand and point to fingers on the other that represent the number of letters in each phonogram. "DOG" has three phonograms; you hold up three fingers on your left hand, and point to each one as you say /d/ /o/ /g/. "Early" has three phonograms: on one hand you hold up all your fingers, three together for "ear," then the 4th and 5th ones separately, IYSWIM. Then you point to them and say /ear/ /l/ /y/. "Ear" has two phonograms: ea and r. Three fingers, two together for ea, one for r. You would tell your dc that we use the phonogram that says /e/, /E/, /A/, because there's no reason to use ea instead of ee and they'd have to guess. We don't want them to guess. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 :svengo: Well, thank you, I guess, because now I have something to show my son when I want to scare him. What do I do opposite of her? Sit, speak in a normal tone of voice, joke, stay close, smile, give kiddo time to add his own thoughts (e.g. "Oh, fEW birds flEW.") and add some teeth and horns to the markings he makes on his words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yeah, I wouldn't do it exactly like her either. I was just trying to give the OP and idea what a lesson can look like in format not style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 THANK YOU for that link, that is very helpful. Wow...now I will know how to spell sergeant..ha! That is great. Okay..now I need to decide which one to use, WRTR of SWR....oh boy, since I own WRTR I can get started w/ it. Does anyone have "schedules" they care to shart for multiple age students? Thanks a bunch! Thank you Ellie, I appreciate your time. I can't believe I am back to looking at these, I have "quit" SWR more times than I care to mention because I try to do everything written and when I couldn't seem to make sense of the manual...well...it was frustrating to say the least but I am always drawn to Spalding and how she did things, it just has ruined any other approach I try..ha! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The first thing I would do is give them all the diagnostic test. See where they test. You will probably be able to group them together. You can also review the phonograms together as a group. Just a mention you can also use spellingcity for review if you need it to save some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I used SWR last year and then switched to WRTR this year with DS. It made our life so much easier. I also toyed with the idea of AAS, but was totally unimpressed with it compared to WRTR. I like how WRTR is constantly using all the phonograms and rules. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Okay..now I need to decide which one to use, WRTR of SWR....oh boy, since I own WRTR I can get started w/ it. Does anyone have "schedules" they care to shart for multiple age students? You don't really need a schedule. You just start them together. You'll know when it's time to work with them separately. Spalding is prescriptive, not scripted; the teacher makes her own schedule based on how her children are doing (even though it's recommended, for example, to teach four phonograms a day with young children, and as quickly as they can be learned by older children). Thanks a bunch! Thank you Ellie, I appreciate your time. I can't believe I am back to looking at these, I have "quit" SWR more times than I care to mention because I try to do everything written and when I couldn't seem to make sense of the manual...well...it was frustrating to say the least but I am always drawn to Spalding and how she did things, it just has ruined any other approach I try..ha! Kim YW. :-) I can't comment on SWR. I do know that with Spalding you really need to follow the method if you want best results, but you can take your time with it, or do things at different times of the day so you all aren't feeling Spalding'ed out, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oh...one more thing..do you all start with cursive or manuscript (clock) letters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oh...one more thing..do you all start with cursive or manuscript (clock) letters? Girl, you have two copies of WRTR. How can you not know this??? :D You teach manuscript letters first. When the dc are writing those well, you teach connected writing. FTR, Spalding does not refer to them as "clock letters." They are letters that begin with circles, then letters that begin with lines. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I know WRTR starts w/ manuscript :glare: I also know a lot of people using SWR really push cursive first...just curious. I ask a lot of questions Ellie..ha! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I know WRTR starts w/ manuscript :glare: No, dear. Spalding starts with manuscript. :D I also know a lot of people using SWR really push cursive first...just curious. They're entitled. :lol: Remember that I'm the Spalding geek. If Spalding starts with manuscript, I start with manuscript. :D I ask a lot of questions Ellie..ha! Kim No worries. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I used SWR last year and then switched to WRTR this year with DS. It made our life so much easier. I also toyed with the idea of AAS, but was totally unimpressed with it compared to WRTR. I like how WRTR is constantly using all the phonograms and rules. Emily So glad you found what works for your family! And just to clarify, SWR also uses the phonograms and rules continually as you work through the WISE Guide lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Just want to add that I had a similar problem with spelling programs. Blessed w/7, I think we discussed this in a PM a while back. I finally settled on the Logic of English which it due to arrive at my doorstep sometime this week. We tried the first 3 sample weeks from the website and fell in love. If we had not found it we would be doing Spalding also and I may go back to it after we finish LOE, if she does not come out with other levels in the meantime. SWR was just too much to keep up with for mulitple levels. I'm speaking as someone who would almost give her left arm for ease of use .Anyway, just something to keep in the back of your mind. Sorry to throw a wrench out there. I just wanted to share my discovery.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 No, dear. Spalding starts with manuscript. :D They're entitled. :lol: Remember that I'm the Spalding geek. If Spalding starts with manuscript, I start with manuscript. :D No worries. :D OH BOY!! OKay get the WRTR out of my head and put SPALDING in :banghead: WRTR is the MANUAL...SPALDING is the METHOD, WRTR is the Manual...SPALDING is the METHOD!!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 OH BOY!! OKay get the WRTR out of my head and put SPALDING in :banghead: WRTR is the MANUAL...SPALDING is the METHOD, WRTR is the Manual...SPALDING is the METHOD!!:lol: :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If you had an older struggling speller, 6th grade level, an 8 year old...loves to write but needs to get busy w/ a formal spelling program and younger ones learning to read...what would you use? Thanks! Kim (homeschooling mom of 7) That's almost the ages I started with--11 yo at the end of 5th grade, and a 9 yo at the end of 3rd grade. I used AAS and have never regretted it. We used Level 1 to fill in gaps and didn't do all the words--I taught the concept, had them teach it back to me & moved on. I fast-tracked until I got to the point where they didn't already have the words memorized (which for us was in Level 2--they knew some but not others). Here's my blog review. For us it worked great. Hope you find a good fit for you & your kids! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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