Favorite History Text for Outlining per TWTM

[....]

What is your favorite core text for outlining history (if you follow TWTM). In the new edition of the book, she suggests:

 

1. Usborne Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of World History

2. History of the World

3. National Geographic Almanac of World History

4. History: The Definitive Visual Guide

 

What would work for a strong reader and writer for 5th grade? What have you had the most success with?

 

Thank-you for taking time out to reply!

[duckymama]

We just started these books this September for Ancients with our DS10. He is a strong reader and pretty strong writer.

 

We own:

 

Kingfisher History Encyclopedia (Red)

DK History of the World

The Kingfisher book of the Ancient World (found at the library and decided to buy)

Almanac of World History

 

We schedule KHE or HOTW the first day for reading, sentences, maps, and timelines. We usually use AWH for outling on the second day.

 

The Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World has more written info since its focus is ancients. We use this for extra reading and sometimes outlining.

 

We don't get a lot of books from the library since he can get so much info from these books. Also, we use CHOLL for Ancients literature, so he is getting a wider range of books for there. If he is interested in something in particular, he gets more books from the library.

 

It has been a work in progress and has taken time to figure out which books to use for which days. But, I think we have the hang of it now. :)

 

I know it is a lot of books, but we bought all of them used and he is our first logic stage child. We have a lot of kids that will use these in the future.

[EKS]

It's not on your list, but I would use K12's Human Odyssey series for history in the middle grades.

[....]

 

We schedule KHE or HOTW the first day for reading, sentences, maps, and timelines. We usually use AWH for outling on the second day.

 

I know it is a lot of books, but we bought all of them used and he is our first logic stage child. We have a lot of kids that will use these in the future.

 

OK, I had crossed AWH off my list because TWTM mentions it being for 7th-8th grade...hmmm, maybe I should I still look at that one.

 

This will be our first logic stage student, too. So, I feel like I'm in new (scary) territory.

 

Thank-you for the info!

[....]

It's not on your list, but I would use K12's Human Odyssey series for history in the middle grades.

 

OK, I'm going to do a search for this one. Thanks!

[redsquirrel]

Here's the thing. I find those books impossible to outline.

 

In my copy of TWTM, third ed, she does not call for outlining from an encyclopedia. She uses an encyclopedia for a listing of facts and getting dates from the timeline.

 

When I look in my book I see that history a la TWTM has 6 steps. I am looking at page 278-283, section: "How to do it". This is in the section dealing with 5th grade

 

1. Student reads the section (encyclopedia) and makes a list of 6-8 facts. These are facts that are interesting to the student.

 

2. Student marks dates on a timeline

 

3. Compare map in encyclopedia with a modern wall map and globe

 

4. Student chooses at least one topic for outside reading. Student will use the list of facts to pick that topic

 

5. Student will prepare notebook page on this topic: Student will write several sentences (3 is minimum;6 is better) about the chosen topic.

 

6. Student will choose one page of text, approx 250 words, from the history resource for the week and do a one level outline on his own paper.

 

The way this worked for me was we did steps 1, 2, 3 on day one. I didn't have him go to the library for a book for steps 4-6. Instead I used either the K12 book "The Human Odysses" or a book from the Oxford Ancient World Series, a primary source or another book I already had on a specific subject/biography. I picked the book. He read it and wrote a notebook page on the second 'history day' of the week. That was steps 4 and 5. On day 3 of history for the week, I would choose a section from what he had already read and have him write a one level outline. It only has to be a 250 word section so it was usually an easy to pick out subsection with a header etc. That was step 6.

 

In grade 6 the steps remain the same. There is still no outlining from an encyclopedia. They are still using the encyclopedia for the 6-8 facts. This year you ask the student to asses the 6-8 most important facts, not just the ones he finds most interesting (or runs into first in the reading). Another change for 6th grade is that the student will identify one main point and two to 4 sub-points in each paragraph. These are to be written in proper outline form, using roman numerals and uppercase letters.

 

 

So, what I get from this is that the encyclopedia matters less than the other reading. You pick your chronology and topic from 'what comes next' in the encyclopedia but the narration and outlining comes from the reading.

[Capt_Uhura]

:iagree: w/ Redsquirrel!!!!

[....]

Ok, I must be misreading this section. On pages 272-273, she has a section called Outlining and she talks about outlining as an exercise once a week. Then, she lists 4 core texts for history and maybe I assumed we were to use one of those for outlining.

 

Thanks for the help!

[....]

Now I see the paragraph on page 283 that says to outline from the most interesting history resource she's read during the week.

 

Doh!

[redsquirrel]

It is not clear. I cannot tell you how many hs'ing moms I talk to who talk down classical history because they think it is all making outlines from Kingfisher. I thought that's what it was as well after several readings, so it needs to be better explained.

 

It was only when I was faced with teaching 5th grade and I sat down with a highlighter that I figured it out. I noticed that she mentions 6 steps, and decided to highlight every step and what was required that things became clear to me.

 

It is actually really simple, manageable. My middle schooler doesn't mind it at all. He understands what he is doing and why.

 

The best thing I did was sit down with him for the first 8 weeks or so and walk him through the one point outline process. Once I did that and knew he understood it, he was good to go. I could just give him his weekly assignments and he was on it. It was very liberating for both of us.

[Cosmos]

It is not clear. I cannot tell you how many hs'ing moms I talk to who talk down classical history because they think it is all making outlines from Kingfisher. I thought that's what it was as well after several readings, so it needs to be better explained.

 

It was only when I was faced with teaching 5th grade and I sat down with a highlighter that I figured it out. I noticed that she mentions 6 steps, and decided to highlight every step and what was required that things became clear to me.

 

It is actually really simple, manageable. My middle schooler doesn't mind it at all. He understands what he is doing and why.

 

The best thing I did was sit down with him for the first 8 weeks or so and walk him through the one point outline process. Once I did that and knew he understood it, he was good to go. I could just give him his weekly assignments and he was on it. It was very liberating for both of us.

 

Your description is very helpful. How do you combine that with History Odyssey (from your sig)? Does your ds do the summary and outline assignments from HO as well as the 6-step process?

[redsquirrel]

Your description is very helpful. How do you combine that with History Odyssey (from your sig)? Does your ds do the summary and outline assignments from HO as well as the 6-step process?

 

Well, you just asked the million dollar question, didn't you. :lol:

 

It isn't working well. Last year, I used SOTW to plan my schedule. DH didn't read from SOTW Ancients but I did follow the TOC when picking readings. That meant that both boys were doing the same thing but at different levels.

 

for some reason I decided that was too much work or something. I got a bit stressed always having to come up with readings every week. Pandia Press seemed so easy. I could just pull it off the shelf and tell him to do it. My son is very self directed and will happily follow directions for an assignment.

 

I miss last year. I am not liking the schedule of Pandia Press, but I don't want to scrap what we have done. Also, we are using WWS and I prefer to use that for our writing direction. I have stopped asking him to do the outlining as directed in History Odyssey. She asks him to outine Kingfisher. My son is a perfectly good outliner and he could not manage it. He tried, he really did. I will give him credit for that. But he begged to have Human Odyssey or a Oxford book to outline.

 

I do like some of the assignments in History Odyssey. I like the way she askes him to write up one or two sentence biographies of people from Kingfisher, I like the extra readings. But, I think with a little work, I could do that myself.

 

So, we are going to plug through this year adding in reading from Human Odyssey and Oxford books and doing outlines and narrations from that. At this point it isn't really History Odyssey, but a different thing. Next year I am going back to straight up WTM style. I will have to spend some time planning to get my readings ready, but I don't see a better answer.

 

Don't make it harder on yourself. Just follow the 6 steps every week and history is done. It can be that easy.

 

Now, if I could be convinced to just scrap History Odyssey at this point in the school year, I might do it. But how would I make up the last 7 weeks? Just start at the beginning? Start 7 weeks in? I can't figure it out.

[....]

I'll be jotting down some notes from this thread. Thanks, Everybody!

[Capt_Uhura]

Redsquirrel....we could be twins. :001_smile: I'm going to finish out the year picking the bits from History Odyssey I like (not doing the outlining - doing those per WTM), incorporating K12HO, World in Ancient Times series, and Almanac of World History. Next year I'll decide on whether to keep with the same program or go straight WTM.

[Cosmos]

Redsquirrel....we could be twins. :001_smile: I'm going to finish out the year picking the bits from History Odyssey I like (not doing the outlining - doing those per WTM), incorporating K12HO, World in Ancient Times series, and Almanac of World History. Next year I'll decide on whether to keep with the same program or go straight WTM.

 

The thing that's hardest to replace from HO seems like the maps. I really like that part of it: having the beautiful, clear black-lines with the just-right amount of information showing.

 

It wouldn't be worth it to buy it for just the maps, though, would it? But in some ways I'm resonating with you and redsquirrel about what I'd like our history to look like. I've like what we've done with HO so far this year, but simplifying sounds good too. (Of course "simplifying" would actually mean a lot more work for me. :lol:)

[Cosmos]

Now, if I could be convinced to just scrap History Odyssey at this point in the school year, I might do it. But how would I make up the last 7 weeks? Just start at the beginning? Start 7 weeks in? I can't figure it out.

 

Why would you need to start over again at the beginning? Can't you just start with where you are in the spines?

[Capt_Uhura]

MapTrek maps are very nice.

[redsquirrel]

Why would you need to start over again at the beginning? Can't you just start with where you are in the spines?

 

because...because... it just would :lol:

 

Mostly because History Odyssey is done by region. If I do what I did last year and use SOTW as my 'roadmap' it is done chronologically.

 

And I would mess it up or something.

 

Maybe I need to start another thread about this, lol.

 

and YES! that 'simplify' means more work for me. Boo hoo

[duckymama]

redsquirrel,

 

Thank you for explaining that section so clearly. I feel better now that what we are doing is okay. The encyclopedias just did not work for outlining. But, the The Kingfisher book of the Ancient World and the Almanac of World History are more like articles. They have worked much better for outlining.

 

Thanks again! I have printed out your description to keep on hand. :)

[Halcyon]

It is not clear. I cannot tell you how many hs'ing moms I talk to who talk down classical history because they think it is all making outlines from Kingfisher. I thought that's what it was as well after several readings, so it needs to be better explained.

 

It was only when I was faced with teaching 5th grade and I sat down with a highlighter that I figured it out. I noticed that she mentions 6 steps, and decided to highlight every step and what was required that things became clear to me.

 

It is actually really simple, manageable. My middle schooler doesn't mind it at all. He understands what he is doing and why.

 

The best thing I did was sit down with him for the first 8 weeks or so and walk him through the one point outline process. Once I did that and knew he understood it, he was good to go. I could just give him his weekly assignments and he was on it. It was very liberating for both of us.

 

Thank you so much for pointing me in the direction of this thread, redsquirrel. I am going to re-read WTM and try and clarify for myself what she's saying. What you've outlined does seem eminently doable.

[Halcyon]

Well, you just asked the million dollar question, didn't you. :lol:

 

It isn't working well. Last year, I used SOTW to plan my schedule. DH didn't read from SOTW Ancients but I did follow the TOC when picking readings. That meant that both boys were doing the same thing but at different levels.

 

for some reason I decided that was too much work or something. I got a bit stressed always having to come up with readings every week. Pandia Press seemed so easy. I could just pull it off the shelf and tell him to do it. My son is very self directed and will happily follow directions for an assignment.

 

I miss last year. I am not liking the schedule of Pandia Press, but I don't want to scrap what we have done. Also, we are using WWS and I prefer to use that for our writing direction. I have stopped asking him to do the outlining as directed in History Odyssey. She asks him to outine Kingfisher. My son is a perfectly good outliner and he could not manage it. He tried, he really did. I will give him credit for that. But he begged to have Human Odyssey or a Oxford book to outline.

 

I do like some of the assignments in History Odyssey. I like the way she askes him to write up one or two sentence biographies of people from Kingfisher, I like the extra readings. But, I think with a little work, I could do that myself.

 

So, we are going to plug through this year adding in reading from Human Odyssey and Oxford books and doing outlines and narrations from that. At this point it isn't really History Odyssey, but a different thing. Next year I am going back to straight up WTM style. I will have to spend some time planning to get my readings ready, but I don't see a better answer.

 

Don't make it harder on yourself. Just follow the 6 steps every week and history is done. It can be that easy.

 

Now, if I could be convinced to just scrap History Odyssey at this point in the school year, I might do it. But how would I make up the last 7 weeks? Just start at the beginning? Start 7 weeks in? I can't figure it out.

 

 

I guess I'm confused. Why can't History Odyssey be used to complement the WTM approach to history? I was planning on using it....:confused:

 

 

ETA: Ack!! I thought you were talking about HUMAN Odyssey (the K12 text)...sorry!

Edited November 6, 2011 by Halcyon

[redsquirrel]

I guess I'm confused. Why can't History Odyssey be used to complement the WTM approach to history? I was planning on using it....:confused:

 

I guess it can. I still think it is an excellent program. In fact, I was just talking to someone today and I suggested she check it out.

 

It doesn't work for me because I want to do history as put forward in WTM. I want him making his list of 6-8 important facts from Kingfisher (or something else). I want him to have assigned readings from a history book that can be outlined. CHOTW isn't really up to snuff on that front.

 

So, I have HO here in my house. I don't want my son to be outlining from Kingfisher. I want him to have weekly readings where he does both narration and outlining. Those things are not assigned in History Odyssey. I am following SOTW 2 TOC for our schedule. I am assigning readings from K12 Human Odyssey and/or Oxford Medieval World. At this point, I am not really using HO, am I?

 

I think it can work on its own as a great logic stage program. But, if you are planning on following the recommendations in WTM, then it is unnecessary. It is sort of nice to have. I must admit that I love the way it gives you lists of important names and tells you to write up a couple lines about each one. I like how it tells you to put important inventions and works of art on the timeline. I never think of things like that on my own. But, to me, it isn't 40$ worth of nice.

[Michele B]

It's not on your list, but I would use K12's Human Odyssey series for history in the middle grades.

 

:iagree:

That's what we've been using for 5th and 6th grade. Much easier to outline than the various Kingfisher editions we have tried.

I found all three volumes used on Amazon from 18$-24$ each.

[missmoe]

I guess it can. I still think it is an excellent program. In fact, I was just talking to someone today and I suggested she check it out.

 

It doesn't work for me because I want to do history as put forward in WTM. I want him making his list of 6-8 important facts from Kingfisher (or something else). I want him to have assigned readings from a history book that can be outlined. CHOTW isn't really up to snuff on that front.

 

So, I have HO here in my house. I don't want my son to be outlining from Kingfisher. I want him to have weekly readings where he does both narration and outlining. Those things are not assigned in History Odyssey. I am following SOTW 2 TOC for our schedule. I am assigning readings from K12 Human Odyssey and/or Oxford Medieval World. At this point, I am not really using HO, am I?

 

I think it can work on its own as a great logic stage program. But, if you are planning on following the recommendations in WTM, then it is unnecessary. It is sort of nice to have. I must admit that I love the way it gives you lists of important names and tells you to write up a couple lines about each one. I like how it tells you to put important inventions and works of art on the timeline. I never think of things like that on my own. But, to me, it isn't 40$ worth of nice.

 

I believe HO (History Odyssey) was written to help people follow TWTM method. And outlining is one of the key components of HO. In fact I loved the gentle step by step method it employs teaching outlining. It is true one can follow TWTM without HO, but sometimes some moms need the extra help of organizing things and that is where a planned curriculum comes in.

[Julieofsardis]

See, the confusion comes because previous editions of TWTM actually did call for outlining Kingfisher. The steps were a little different, too.

 

I actually like the new way better, because I could never find a main topic in Kingfisher. The text is too dense.

 

This is why HO is set up in the way it is.

[....]

See, the confusion comes because previous editions of TWTM actually did call for outlining Kingfisher. The steps were a little different, too.

 

I actually like the new way better, because I could never find a main topic in Kingfisher. The text is too dense.

 

This is why HO is set up in the way it is.

 

OK, see THAT's what the confusion probably is...:glare: I just recently bought the 3rd edition of TWTM (and I have read the two previous versions).

 

There has been so much useful info in this thread and a couple of other ones recently. Thanks, Everybody!! I might just buy several different sources mentioned in this thread and see them in person.

 

I'm also intrigued by History Odyssey...and had never heard of it.