AngelBee Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I am loosing it! :D Why is dream spelled dream, not dreem or dreme? :001_huh: I am dying trying to explain "why" for spelling rules to ds7 (just turned) and dd4. HELP!!!! Figured out head and steak because of Middle English roots. SO how do you explain that to a Ker and 1st grader????? We are doing written and oral dictation. I don't want them to get frustrated. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay3fer Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't bother EXPLAINING rules, beyond saying, "yes, it's weird and English comes from several languages, so that's why"... I've chosen a systematic phonics system (Explode the Code), which I trust will expose my daughter to many rules and many words for which each rule applies. I think that's about all I can do. There is no hard and fast way of knowing, sometimes. It sounds like you're not using a spelling PROGRAM. I would, just to make sure you're going through it systematically, from the easy rules (like 3-letter CVC words and simple long-vowel/silent-e combinations) to harder ones. I've found that with one spelling "test" per lesson, Explode the Code is all the "spelling program" we need, even though it is not exactly intended as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Just teach that there are multiple sounds of those phonograms, and sometimes you have to memorize which one it is. The "ea" phonogram says /ee/, /e/, and /ay/ (i forget the order). Part of learning to spell is learning which method of spelling /ee/ you use, but you can at least rule out drom and drum. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't bother EXPLAINING rules, beyond saying, "yes, it's weird and English comes from several languages, so that's why"... I've chosen a systematic phonics system (Explode the Code), which I trust will expose my daughter to many rules and many words for which each rule applies. I think that's about all I can do. There is no hard and fast way of knowing, sometimes. It sounds like you're not using a spelling PROGRAM. I would, just to make sure you're going through it systematically, from the easy rules (like 3-letter CVC words and simple long-vowel/silent-e combinations) to harder ones. I've found that with one spelling "test" per lesson, Explode the Code is all the "spelling program" we need, even though it is not exactly intended as one. I actually have PR. I just am having trouble using it for the littles. Also using Websters as done here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208407 My ds11 is totally puzzled at how kids in Spelling Bees do it. I feel like I am doing something wrong. :( Do they just memorize huge lists of words? Without really knowledge of why they spell them that way? I am big on phonics, but it is confusing me now. Maybe it is just me who is lost. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I actually have PR. I just am having trouble using it for the littles. Also using Websters as done here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208407 My ds11 is totally puzzled at how kids in Spelling Bees do it. I feel like I am doing something wrong. :( Do they just memorize huge lists of words? Without really knowledge of why they spell them that way? I am big on phonics, but it is confusing me now. Maybe it is just me who is lost. :D When I participated in Spelling Bowl we did indeed memorize giant lists of words. The teachers were etymology buffs and spelling experts, but their instruction in those areas was informal and off the cuff. Mostly we memorized and drilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 When I participated in Spelling Bowl we did indeed memorize giant lists of words. The teachers were etymology buffs and spelling experts, but their instruction in those areas was informal and off the cuff. Mostly we memorized and drilled. That makes me feel better. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel same way lately bombarded with those questions lately.. why a in away doesn't sound AH, why e at the end doesn't make sound.. why why,,, GRRRR English so hard to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBlessings Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I actually have PR. I just am having trouble using it for the littles. Also using Websters as done here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208407 My ds11 is totally puzzled at how kids in Spelling Bees do it. I feel like I am doing something wrong. :( Do they just memorize huge lists of words? Without really knowledge of why they spell them that way? I am big on phonics, but it is confusing me now. Maybe it is just me who is lost. :D My big kids are natural spellers and readers. They haven't had extensive, formal phonics as we adopted classical homeschooling late in the game. Consequentially I've never been 'big on phonics' as of yet. I do have a younger dd who is 3, so I am currently researching learning to read. I hear so much about phonics yet my older children do quite well without having extended formal teaching. As a matter of fact my eldest dd had a negative experience with setbacks with formal phonics. Anyway, it isn't just you who doesn't quite grasp spelling/reading/phonics and the pathways of learning. I've put quite a lot of thinking into this lately and I believe it is as individual as well, the individual. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence1978 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel same way lately bombarded with those questions lately.. why a in away doesn't sound AH, why e at the end doesn't make sound.. why why,,, GRRRR English so hard to learn Oh! I think I know this one. The word away has two syllables: a and way. The beginning a is the unaccented syllable and way is the accented syllable. Vowels in unaccented syllables can say the schwa sound, which is what you are hearing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Because /ea/ has three sounds which are the short e sound, long e sound, and long a sound. Dream uses the second sound. Ha! Sheer memorization, really. :D I might have the order wrong, so much for memorization! :lol: Edited October 27, 2011 by SJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) I feel same way lately bombarded with those questions lately.. why a in away doesn't sound AH, why e at the end doesn't make sound.. why why,,, GRRRR English so hard to learn Rule 4. Vowels usually say their long sound when they are at the end of a syllable. Edited October 27, 2011 by SJ. Oops - forgot usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnointedHsMom Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 You need All About Spelling for sure :D It totally explains all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_midori Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 You need All About Spelling for sure :D It totally explains all that! :iagree: We love AAS - it explains so much of the reasoning behind things!!! The silent e, for instance - my 7yo knows the main jobs of the silent e & can accurately spell words with it and place those words in a booklet according to the job (i,j,u,v not at end, make the vowel long, etc). For spelling bees, they are SUPPOSED to be well grounded in the background of why the words came about and know a reasonable amount about the original languages to be able to more accurately pick out what spelling to use (this is, of course, in addition to knowing the general rules). So - they might know that the base of a word is from Latin, and from that understand that it would be spelled a certain way. Spelling bee champions don't just memorize a long list of words - they dig for the REASON that those words are spelled that way and use that understanding to spell new words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel same way lately bombarded with those questions lately.. why a in away doesn't sound AH, why e at the end doesn't make sound.. why why,,, GRRRR English so hard to learn English really isn't all that hard to learn. You just have to have the right instructor. :D "A" in "away" says its second ("long") sound because a, e, i, o, and u usually say their second sounds at the end of short words or syllables (that includes syllables which are *only* those single letters). That's Rule 4. There are 5 reasons for final silent e (and it doesn't matter why; it is what it is): To help a single vowel say its second sound (single vowel, single consonant, final silent e; "time") English words English words don't end with u or v, so we put an e at the end ("blue" would still be pronounced the same without the e, because of Rule 4; "have" would still be pronounced the same, as well, but we put the e at the end because English words don't end with u or v). To help c and g say their second ("soft") sounds ("chance," "charge") Every syllable in English has a vowel, even if it isn't needed for pronunciation ("little"), so we use an e. No-job e--there's no reason. :-) Maybe at one time we pronounced it, but no longer ("horse," "are"). Spalding and its spin-offs teach these. Sometimes there's a clear reason for the way a word is spelled; sometimes there is not, and it doesn't do any good to ponder and fuss about it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I am loosing it! :D Why is dream spelled dream, not dreem or dreme? :001_huh: I am dying trying to explain "why" for spelling rules to ds7 (just turned) and dd4. HELP!!!! Figured out head and steak because of Middle English roots. SO how do you explain that to a Ker and 1st grader????? We are doing written and oral dictation. I don't want them to get frustrated. :( Honestly, I don't care what anyone says. It comes down to memorizing. Phonics teaches you which phonograms can make the sound you need, but you still need to memorize which one to use. For kids who are visual learners, this doesn't seem to be a big deal and their parents credit phonics for making them good spellers. For kids with a terrible visual memory (like mine), they are still left guessing how to spell /er/ in this word (er? ir? ur? or? ear?) and /oh/ (o? ow? oa? ough?). We are using Apples and Pears, which is a remedial program for dyslexic students, and it is still incredibly hard for my son. We just started in book C and after learning words that end in -ce (office and notice, which sound different than police) we are learning words that end in -se (horse, else). Then of course there's -ss (bliss). English is maddening. He would have been so much better off if we spoke Spanish or another phonetic language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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