If you had planned to do Omnibus... and now were thinking not...

[LisaKinVA]

What would be your choices for history & literature?

 

FWIW, I *need* structure, easy-to-follow programs. I have 5 children, and seriously cannot dedicate the extra time to "wing it" with materials that aren't thought through for me (I can tweak from there...) Also, something that can be done somewhat independently would be nice.

[Quiver0f10]

TOG or MFW?

[Carol in Cal.]

May I respectfully suggest reading the literature and writing sections for logic and rhetoric stages in TWTM, and considering whether you could do this more easily without a program? In the later logic through rhetoric stages, the student does a lot of work on his own. Then I would consider supplementing with a couple of short courses from Bravewriter--the Expository Essay course, and the SAT Essay course--during the early and mid-high school years respectively. Honestly, I think that in many ways this would be easier than the programs like TOG or Omnibus.

 

For 8th grade Bible I used Concordia Voyages--they have a one semester course called Contemporary Issues that I really liked. It was much more focussed and helpful in tone than Omnibus.

[Christy B]

Notgrass!

 

I adore Omnibus but it would not have been a good fit for my very math- and science-oriented dd. Notgrass served us very well for world history and I would have used the American History if we had not enrolled in Classical Conversations.

[Heather in VA]

This is a tough question. I do use Omnibus so obviously I didn't decide not to but I do sometimes wonder what I would do if for some reason I decided against Omnibus down the road. I guess that's the key question - what would be the reason I decided against Omnibus. What is it about Omnibus that makes you decide you don't want to do it? Whatever that reason can help lead you to what you might really want.

 

In my case I could see that I might not end up doing Omnibus with my youngest. I don't know yet for sure obviously because she's only in the 3rd grade but she is significantly different than my other two. I am not sure that the complexity of the literature in Omnibus will be effective with her. Should that end up being the case, I will probably use TOG. It is academically challenging, has teacher's help and doesn't completely forgo the classic works but isn't as 'pure' in it's Great Books approach so a student who might benefit from more of a history and literature division (rather than implying history from literature) could be better served.

 

I don't know if that helped or not.

 

Heather

[PeterPan]

Well I can only tell you what I'm thinking (as opposed to doing). This year she's doing the two american history self-paced online classes from VP along with a scad of reading I've put together for her with some spines and the best of books by Marrin, Freedman, etc. You could say the reading is roughly equivalent to TOG, and I may still break down and buy it. I also plan to have her listen to the Cengage lectures. She's a huge history nut (huge), so this fits her.

 

That's what we'll start in a couple weeks. Right now she's blazing through the NTGR course (online, self-paced from VP) for the free trial and loving it. I'm letting everything else slide, and I plan to use those seeds to throw some ancients reading from the O1 list at her. I'm going to get the TC course on CS Lewis and use that alongside Till We Have Faces. She pulled the heavies (Iliad, Odyssey, etc.) to read for herself, and I'm content with that.

 

For 8th I'm thinking we'll do the Pilgrim's Progress study from AIG along with the history of England courses from TC. There are some extra courses that will integrate well too (museum masterpieces of the London, etc.). It just all came together for me when I was reading the PP tm and realized it was all there. She adores Qu. Elizabeth I, so it will be great.

 

Then for 9th we'll go back to ancients formally, basically combining anything I really like of O1 and O4 along with TC courses to make it work. 10th will be Middle Ages uses TC courses and the best of O2 and O5. 11th will be another year of american, hopefully at that point at an AP level. 12th will be gov't and econ and an elective, probably a year of Jane Austen, with the goal of a senior trip to England to see the things we've been reading about.

 

So I'm thinking TC courses plus whatever we want to read that goes with it. She adores history, and there's no way my "teaching" would be useful to her. I've always just thrown stuff at her, and this allows us to keep going the way that has worked for us. The TC courses are the next logical step after enjoying the online lectures. I don't think an online class would be adequate or work with her attention issues. The VP live online samples didn't have enough visual component to hold her. And really, Omnibus itself isn't quite a perfect fit. She's just very intense. I handed her a book on the Battle of Salamis (2" thick!), and she said thank you. Something is nuts about this child. (I'm not a history lover, can you tell? LOL) A lot of the discussion stuff with Omnibus I found (owning O1 and O2 and looking over them extensively) to be either obvious and stuff I would already discuss with her in other ways or leading or distinctly NOT the way I would have put it. She doesn't enjoy the essays, nor do I. And there were certain books that were handled in a way that was not the way I would want them handled. For instance with Pilgrim's Progress, I just didn't feel the handling was adequate. We're gonna give it a year and plunge the depths. With the Shakespeare, again, their treatment didn't suit us. We've already done so much and ENJOY the way we're doing it. I didn't feel the need to screw that up to fit someone else's paradigm.

 

So to me, I can take Omnibus' lists and discussion points under advisement but do my own thing. The TC courses totally take away that pressure to teach history, which frankly I can't do. And I'm not saying that lightly. I'll teach her calculus, grammar, any foreign language you want, but I don't do history. And TOG, as much as I'd love it to fit her, isn't quite perfect either. She's at rhetoric level thinking now (which is why I might buy the guides to go with our stuff this year, just to tease out more discussion). But where does that leave me? I could use the early years (TOG1 and 2) along with our 9th and 10th. I may even do that. I'm guessing I would like the way they handle some of the lit. But for me, for right now, I'm hoping the TC courses work out to be a good spine and that I can just plug everything into those. If that works, I'm home free.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What would be your choices for history & literature?

 

FWIW, I *need* structure, easy-to-follow programs. I have 5 children, and seriously cannot dedicate the extra time to "wing it" with materials that aren't thought through for me (I can tweak from there...) Also, something that can be done somewhat independently would be nice.

 

Well, if your intention had been to do Great Books and you liked the selection in Omnibus, you could read those same books, use the discussion framework in WTM/WEM as a model for discussing and writing. You could supplement with Cliffs Notes, Spark Notes or Pink Monkey guides.

 

If you are looking for more hand holding, with a Christian world view, you might try Invitation to the Classics, Stobaugh (both literature and history).

 

I also have a bunch of Peter Leithart books on my shelf from years past (Heroes of the City of Man, etc.). However, a search on him reminds me that his books were published by Canon Press and that he is associated with New St. Andrew's College. So depending on your reasons for not wanting to use Omnibus, Leithart might be out too. (NB: Leithart is associated with Federal Vision and has been on trial by PCA to determine if his views are contrary to Westminster Standards. The verdict is due out sometime in October, from what I can tell.)

 

And of course, you can always use the book lists in WTM. It's easy to forget that WTM does lay out recommended reading as well as how to deal with them. WEM even gives you some specific themes for different works.

[corbie]

TOG!:001_smile:

[LisaKinVA]

Our family is more "school at home..." has been for some time. When I try to get too "WTMy," I go a bit nuts. My oldest did not respond to it (we essentially "lost" a year).

 

I like the idea of Omnibus, but there are some things that bug me. We weren't going to do the essays (or many essays) in 7th or 8th... so that was one thing that would be tweaked. Much of the reading would be tweaked, and then, I have some other ancillary issues that are bugging me. I also have a feeling that Omnibus is just going to be "too heavy" for my son. I like the thought of doing mainly Great Books... I'll have to take some more time with it this winter to really make that determination.

 

I've thought about going with K12's world history series for 7th & 8th, then doing BJU's American History for 9th. I could add TC lectures for 7th and 8th, and then add additional literature/ TC lectures for 9th. Go to SWB's "adult" series for 10-12 (assuming it's all done ;)), with *something* as a spine, again with TC lectures, and literature.

 

For literature, I thought about sticking with Progeny Press & Abeka for 7-8, then switching to BJU & Progeny Press (or Lightening Lit) for 9-12. My son *does not* like literature studies. So, I limit us to 4 novels studied in depth. He likes the readers (he's been doing Abeka or K12 forever). And, he does read other books as well. We will be doing the MCT literature during the summer as a family.

 

I was really looking forward to some of the Omnibus Bible sections as well... but we're doing the Summit Ministries/Apologia as a family... that may be enough for now.

 

I have a bit of time to chew on all of these suggestions (hopefully more!), but I know I have to start making decisions in March.

 

Thanks so much for everything so far!