Planning the high school math road with a struggling student?

[TrixieB]

I thought the high school math route would be easy to plan. I'd just have my kids use the sequence I used in school.

 

But my oldest dd seems to be struggling.

 

I need some advice on how to progress with her.

 

She used Singapore through 6B, finishing at the end of 6th grade. At the time, it seemed like she was doing well, understanding the material. Looking back, this is still my understanding.

 

In seventh, she started out with Singapore Discovering Mathematics 1. She just couldn't get it, no matter how the material was explained. So I switched her to the Aufmann/Barker/Lockwood prealgebra text that Chalkdust uses. She was able to grasp most of the material, though she has periodic struggles (conversion factors in chapter 7 being the most recent). Also she works very slowly, and has a tough time doing calculations (add/subtract/multiply/divide) quickly. This did not present itself during her elementary school years, which strikes me as a bit odd. Math takes between 1 and 2 hours each day, even if I assign only 10 problems.

 

She's now starting 8th grade. I really am not sure that she will be ready for Algebra 1 when she finishes the prealgebra text in two months or so. Would it be stupid to do another year of prealgebra, using a different text, for 8th, and start algebra in 9th? Or should I start her in algebra and see what happens?

 

If she took algebra in 9th, she would get through precalc or its equivalent in high school. Is this acceptable nowadays? I hear of so many students (not just homeschool students, but ps students too) who take algebra in 7th, geometry in 8th, etc. and go on to a couple of years of AP calculus.

 

I have more questions about which math program would be best, but that will be another post later today.

[kiana]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing Alg 1 in 9th if the student is struggling. JMO.

 

That being said, though, another route you could consider is starting Alg 1 at a slow pace with plenty of review in 8th and finishing in 9th.

 

Depends on how your dd will feel at redoing Pre-Algebra or not. If she expresses relief at the idea of redoing Pre-Alg, I'd absolutely do it.

[1Togo]

Inexpensive resources to build calculation speed that you could use in combination with Pre-Algebra are the Practical Arithmetic texts sold by Keepers of the Faith. The first two books cover those skills with pages and pages of problem sets. Calculation speed can increase with practice.

 

I agree there is nothing wrong with doing Algebra I in 9th grade. Many students need to do that.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Most school districts that I know of DO Algebra 1 in the 9th grade.

 

Also, if your child does UNDERSTAND the concepts, then I think it is OK to use a calculator for some of the basic add/subtract/times/divide.

[Blue Hen]

My younger son who is starting 10th grade struggled past Singapore 6b. In 7th grade I realized he was not ready for NEM, or Algebra, and he wasn't ready for Key to Algebra so I placed him into Pre-Algebra by Dolciani. He did lots of speed drills too with all the operations and fractions. Dolciani books are available used for few $ on abebooks.com. As he worked through Pre-Algrebra he also did the Key To Algebra books. After KTA we started slowly through Dolciani Alg 1 book --- again, available used for a few $ over at abebooks.com. I decided he was still not at the speed nor did he have the confidence I felt he needed so we worked through Jacobs Algebra (8th grade). We then worked through Dolciani Alg 1 book, AGAIN (fall 9th grade). It was now mid-9th grade and problems became easy for him, really easy. Last winter and spring we worked through Jacobs Geometry, and on Monday he will start Dolciani's Alg 2 with trig. .

 

We will see how it goes. If DS needs to work through a pre-calc book after completing Alg 2 w/ trig then he'll do that. I have often told him that I did Dolciani's Alg 1 book in 9th, her Alg 2 w/ trig book in 11th grade, went on to engineering school starting calculus as a freshman and finished in 4 yrs. Better to be solid than sloppy. It is so important for the student to really understand algrebra that if it takes an extra year or 2 then that is what it takes. With math mastery is the key, racing through the subject without mastery will not lead to mastery. So, no, it is not stupid to do another year of pre-algebra.

 

And yes, some kids do do AP Calc in high school. My older son did that but not every kid is ready for that at 16 or 17 or 18. But it is far better to have a solid algebra foundation, with solid arithmetic skills first.

 

Carole

[Sunshine State Sue]

Here's some background:

Many moons ago, I went to private K-8 where there were no advanced math classes. The PS HS offered (probably based on test scores) for me to take Algebra the summer before 9th grade, which I declined. However, after my junior year, I took Pre-Calc during the summer so that I could take Calculus my senior year. I went on to get a degree in math and computer science.

 

Here's my opinion fwiw:

First, I think that it is somewhat normal due to raging hormones for students to struggle around 7th grade. Jann in TX, who has been teaching math for a long time I gather, always talks about how it's not a bad idea to have an easier repeat year around 7th or 8th grade.

 

More opinion:

I don't think there is any reason to push a student into Algebra earlier than 9th grade. If they are ready, it's fine. Not all students need to take Calculus in high school. IF they are going into STEM AND they want to try to get into a selective school, it would be helpful. As my experience shows, there are ways to squeeze 5 years of math into 4 years of high school: summer school, doubling up Geo/Alg 2, dual enrollment are some options.

 

Old threads on this topic:

Algebra --- 8th or 9th????

Algebra I in 8th grade -- normal or advanced? Should we automatically do this?

Algebra I as a high school course doesn't look good, right?

 

HTH!

Edited August 26, 2011 by Sue in St Pete

[DebbS]

I wouldn't worry about getting to calculus. There are students who are ready for calculus in highschool, but many are not. What I've gathered from speaking to university science and math profs. is that they would prefer the student to have a good grounding in algebra and complex problem solving rather than to forgo that and move quickly on to calculus. I've heard several comment that they are getting students who have had calculus in highschool, but still struggle with constructing the algebraic equations needed to solve complex problems.

 

I have linked a few articles from the AOPS site that helped me to think through our high school math strategy. Early on, my goal was to get them through calculus. As it is, my kids are good math students but not stellar and we have experienced struggles with new math concepts many times. After reading these and some other articles on the subject, we're adding some probability and number theory type courses to our core Singapore NEM so that we will only get through Level 3A/3B during high school. My goal is to give them a solid background rather than an advanced background because it's what's right for them. Depending on their majors, they may or may not take calculus in college.

 

Why Discrete Math is Important

 

The Calculus Trap

[Teachin'Mine]

I would do a different pre-algebra text in 8th and let her do algebra in 9th. Hopefully with another year she'll be able to really understand and to bring her speed up. If 10 pre-algebra problems are taking her 1 to 2 hours, I can't imagine how long she'd need to spend on algebra problems. She can still complete through pre-calculus, or even calculus, in high school with starting algebra in 9th. :)

 

I don't know what texts you'd consider using, but I highly recommend Saxon 8/7. It still has the student working on math facts and mental math, and really solidifies what's needed before algebra.

[StephanieZ]

If she masters the prealgebra material, I'd suggest considering a "Beginning Algebra" course of some sort for the remainder of 8th grade, with the PLAN to do an "Intermediate Algebra" or full/typical "Algebra I"for 9th grade. Thinkwell has a sequence like this, and I am sure there are other resources as well. (If the publisher you like does not have a sequence such as this, you could use one of the 'easier' Algebra 1 texts for Beginning Alg one year, and then a more challenging/standard Algebra 1 text from a different publisher for the second year.)

 

However, if she hasn't mastered the prealgebra materials (85% or higher on the final), then I would, indeed, choose a new PreAlg book and start again, calling it Introductory Algebra or something like that if you don't want her to feel like a failure.

 

In any event, true mastery of Algebra is much more important than rushing it. I would definitely take through 9th grade to get through Algebra 1 rather than muddle through earlier than that.

 

If math suddenly clicks again, she can always accelerate a bit as needed to get back to the calculus by 12th grade track.