If we plan to learn both Greek & Latin, do we need to study English Grammar?

[diaperjoys]

We're looking on input on this. It is our plan to have our kids learn Latin & Greek both, and we'd like Latin, in particular to be learned well. Should I still have my 2nd/3rd grader do R&S English?? What about WWE?

 

My oldest (just now 8yo) has already done Song School Latin, this year he's doing Song School Greek, and next year we were going to move forward with both languages. Should I give him a year of English Grammar this year?

 

I would really value input on this matter - I'd love to hear arguments on both sides...

[Crimson Wife]

I voted "always study English grammar" but I do think that at a certain point, a bright student can drop English grammar and use something like Latin Road to English Grammar. But that's more like middle school.

 

I'm planning to switch my DD over from studying English grammar to LRTEG perhaps 2nd semester of 5th or 1st semester of 6th. By that point, she'll have finished at least FLL 1/2, Michael Clay Thompson's "town" and "voyage" levels, 2 of the Killgallon books, and Noden's Image Grammar. I feel confident that she'll have a solid enough foundation in English grammar that we can try killing two birds with one stone.

[Dmmetler]

I'm teaching English Grammar, Latin Grammar, Spanish Grammar, and we're just starting on Greek Grammar. They all build on each other, but not enough that one can replace another. And the materials we've used for Latin and Greek tend to assume a knowledge of English Grammar to start with (it's easier to find materials that do not for Spanish).

 

Another thing to consider is that it's not 100% the same, particularly when you add in syntax, capitalization, and punctuation. There are enough differences that it really has been easier to simply teach each separately and to be able to say "In Latin, it works this way" as opposed to trying to apply one to another.

[Michele B]

If you are planning on reading and writing in English, you need English grammar!:thumbup1:

[EmilyGF]

I don't understand the argument that a foreign language's grammar can replace your mother tongue's grammar. While it can help you understand it better, it just is different.

 

Maybe the English grammar focus doesn't need to teach names of parts of speech (that is done quite well in the foreign language), but sentence structure is completely different.

 

Emily

[abbeyej]

It will *absolutely* be helpful to your Latin and Greek studies if your child has a strong foundation in English grammar. (And that means more than is provided in R&S3.) And, in turn, *eventually* Latin and Greek studies will make English grammar that much clearer to your students, but you won't cover enough grammar in those courses in the very early years to make up for beginning English grammar study.

 

I think that truly gifted Latin or Greek teachers can cover English grammar within the context of Latin or Greek studies. I think for most of us, we just don't have a strong enough background of our own to make that happen.

 

At some point, if your kids are studying Latin and/or Greek in a really rigorous way and you're covering English grammar within the context of classical languages and of writing, you can drop the separate grammar program. In most cases, I don't think that's 'til middle school at the very, very earliest.

[warneral]

I'm waiting to do Latin until after we get some grammar under our belt as the suggestions I've read for the various later elementary Latin Programs are that your child should have a good foundation of grammar in order to understand Latin Grammar.

[smillard00]

I voted no extra grammar needed. We use First Form Latin and the points about English Grammar are in the teacher's manual for you. I am finding it easy to teach English Grammar in the context of Latin Grammar. They include sentence patterns (starting with subject + verb) where you take a basic sentence and diagram it in English, then diagram the same sentence in Latin. It helps the student see how the stems and endings in Latin work, but it also teaches English at the same time. I think because it puts the grammar into real context, my kids are focusing on it much more than the year I did a more traditional grammar workbook type program with them. As I introduce a concept in our Latin study, I'm finding that they didn't retain that concept from the grammar course we did, so I'm completely reteaching it. So I feel like that year of grammar was probably a waste. I am going to use something else new to us this year to reinforce our grammar, though. We're going to start using Fix It from IEW which approaches grammar from another direction and I think it will be a great reinforcement for us as well as an aid to learning the editing process in our writing.

 

Now, all that being said...if you are not using a Latin or Greek program that teaches grammar strongly, then you probably will find the need to supplement grammar. Ours just happens to be very strong in the grammar category and that is why we chose it.