S/O Etiquette

[beaners]

Does anyone else open those threads with trepidation because you are certain you have unknowingly committed whatever breach of etiquette is being discussed?

 

I never had a shower for my wedding or any of my babies. We were married when we lived across the country from our families and no one else was even at the wedding. Sometimes I regret not having the fun memories of these events that other people do. Sometimes I feel like I dodged a bullet. I could not have escaped a wedding and reception or showers unscathed!

I'm not saying this to bash the OP of the other thread in any way. I'm just voicing my own uncertainty and discomfort and lack of familiarity with the norms of society!

[Desert Rat]

Etiquette is a tricky thing because we are all raised differently. What is fine for one family, is truly offensive for another.

I still cringe that I had a gift registry for my wedding in 1994. It was new and fancy then. It was fun to do with that fun pricing gun at the Home Express. I didn't get a lot of duplicates and we got what we really did need. But, I got a lot of feedback that it was tacky. (Which in itself is tacky!)

I just try to live and let live as far as etiquette is concerned. I do still think about some of the faux pas I've made and wince though.

[Carol in Cal.]

Wedding Registries were not new in 1994.

Back in the 1920's, after receiving an invitation, you would write a reply, and then call a relative of the bride and delicately inquire as to whether there was a registry anywhere. If there was, it was usually for tableware in the new pattern that the couple chose. You would go to the store holding the registry (no computers or copiers, of course, so it was one physical store) and the attendant would lay out a place setting of the bone china, silver, and crystal, and perhaps another of 'every day' stuff--stainless, glassware, and everyday china. Thus you could see what you were purchasing. Then you would usually have it sent in advance of the wedding to the bride's home.

 

No, I'm not that old! This is the description from my grandmother. Who was neither high society nor snobby.

[Parrothead]

I'm of the opinion that if more people knew the rules of etiquette there wouldn't' be so many intimidated by it. It is something we lost in the 60's and 70's to show how casual and non-uptight like our parents were. The whole, "My mom is Mrs. Smith, just call me Sally," really did proper etiquette in. Because in the meantime Mom is insisting that Junior call her new friend Sally, by her title, Mrs. Smith. What does the kid do?

 

Etiquette is not easy in a sense that one can't do one's own thing all the time. On the other hand etiquette makes things so much simpler for everyone if it is just used and handed on. Mrs. Smith who Sally is and if she would just not be uptight about being Mrs (or Ms.) Smith, Junior can follow the rules. His mom doesn't become exasperated and give in and then not bother to continue to teach Junior the rules because, Why bother? No one does that anymore.

 

This is just one example.

 

I find Judith Martin (Miss Manners') books entertaining and informative. I think everyone should have at least one of them (or Emily Post's or Amy Vanderbuilt's) in their home and refer to it regularly.

[Parrothead]

Wedding Registries were not new in 1994.

Back in the 1920's, after receiving an invitation, you would write a reply, and then call a relative of the bride and delicately inquire as to whether there was a registry anywhere. If there was, it was usually for tableware in the new pattern that the couple chose. You would go to the store holding the registry (no computers or copiers, of course, so it was one physical store) and the attendant would lay out a place setting of the bone china, silver, and crystal, and perhaps another of 'every day' stuff--stainless, glassware, and everyday china. Thus you could see what you were purchasing. Then you would usually have it sent in advance of the wedding to the bride's home.

 

No, I'm not that old! This is the description from my grandmother. Who was neither high society nor snobby.

:iagree: Registries are a long standing custom. They just were not so "in your face" as they are today.

[*Lulu*]

I'm of the opinion that if more people knew the rules of etiquette there wouldn't' be so many intimidated by it. It is something we lost in the 60's and 70's to show how casual and non-uptight like our parents were. The whole, "My mom is Mrs. Smith, just call me Sally," really did proper etiquette in. Because in the meantime Mom is insisting that Junior call her new friend Sally, by her title, Mrs. Smith. What does the kid do?

 

Etiquette is not easy in a sense that one can't do one's own thing all the time. On the other hand etiquette makes things so much simpler for everyone if it is just used and handed on. Mrs. Smith who Sally is and if she would just not be uptight about being Mrs (or Ms.) Smith, Junior can follow the rules. His mom doesn't become exasperated and give in and then not bother to continue to teach Junior the rules because, Why bother? No one does that anymore.

 

This is just one example.

 

I find Judith Martin (Miss Manners') books entertaining and informative. I think everyone should have at least one of them (or Emily Post's or Amy Vanderbuilt's) in their home and refer to it regularly.

 

 

(bold mine) :001_wub:- I think I sparkly heart you.

[LaxMom]

I'm of the opinion that if more people knew the rules of etiquette there wouldn't' be so many intimidated by it. It is something we lost in the 60's and 70's to show how casual and non-uptight like our parents were. The whole, "My mom is Mrs. Smith, just call me Sally," really did proper etiquette in. Because in the meantime Mom is insisting that Junior call her new friend Sally, by her title, Mrs. Smith. What does the kid do?

 

Etiquette is not easy in a sense that one can't do one's own thing all the time. On the other hand etiquette makes things so much simpler for everyone if it is just used and handed on. Mrs. Smith who Sally is and if she would just not be uptight about being Mrs (or Ms.) Smith, Junior can follow the rules. His mom doesn't become exasperated and give in and then not bother to continue to teach Junior the rules because, Why bother? No one does that anymore.

 

This is just one example.

 

I find Judith Martin (Miss Manners') books entertaining and informative. I think everyone should have at least one of them (or Emily Post's or Amy Vanderbuilt's) in their home and refer to it regularly.

 

I agree, and I am a child of the 70s. I would expect a child with whom I have a satellite relationship to call me Mrs. Husband's-Last-Name. That is my title. (However, if you address something to me using my name, then please get my last name right, MOM!) Children who are close friends and our families hang out together, I expect to call be simply by my first name. I think this has more to do with homeschooling and having multigenerational friends than anything else. Likewise, I expect my children to call my co-workers by Mrs/Mr Last Name. If the adult's preference is first name, then I expect them to respect that.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with the thought that EVERYONE should have an etiquette book. I have a 70s vintage Letitia Baldridge (Amy Vanderbilt). The rules haven't changed, we just engage in less formal socializing. The purpose of etiquette is to standardize the social rules so that everyone is comfortable, not to make people feel thwarted in their personal expression or bad about fork choices. Indeed, standardization keeps one from embarrassment from committing such faux pas.

 

Wedding Registries were not new in 1994.

Back in the 1920's, after receiving an invitation, you would write a reply, and then call a relative of the bride and delicately inquire as to whether there was a registry anywhere. If there was, it was usually for tableware in the new pattern that the couple chose. You would go to the store holding the registry (no computers or copiers, of course, so it was one physical store) and the attendant would lay out a place setting of the bone china, silver, and crystal, and perhaps another of 'every day' stuff--stainless, glassware, and everyday china. Thus you could see what you were purchasing. Then you would usually have it sent in advance of the wedding to the bride's home.

 

No, I'm not that old! This is the description from my grandmother. Who was neither high society nor snobby.

Of course! There was a different, more formal way of inquiring about registries, but they were absolutely still in force. How on earth would one go about contributing to the set up of a new household without information on china patterns, etc. Can you imagine?

 

Alas, the part that seems to have changed is civilty, gentleness in the process. {sigh}

 

ETA: it is also in extremely poor taste to condemn someone for faux pas, as well. ;)

Edited July 19, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse

[Ellesmere]

.

[msk]

In my opinion you did dodge a bullet, OP! I'm not saying these events aren't mostly enjoyable (I have *almost* entirely good memories of mine), but at any large event full of extended family (with all the idiosyncrasies and sometimes petty feelings that extended families always seem to have) someone IS going to get bent out of shape over something. I think Martha Stewart's daughter had no guests at her wedding, and in her situation I can understand why.

 

I know that *in theory* etiquette means a set of shared rules everyone follows to avoid ever giving offense/being offended... But it doesn't always work! The rules are not always the same from family to family, region to region, or etiquette maven to etiquette maven. And in a large, diverse country like the US with a long, diverse history, and people from many different places and backgrounds, I am convinced they can never be absolutely uniform.

 

If you follow Guide X to the letter, someone at your wedding/rehearsal/shower is sure to take offense anyway because you didn't follow THEIR family's rules, or make an exception for them in what was CLEARLY a very special case, etc. etc. Of course, if you followed guide X to the letter you can assure yourself they were wrong to be offended, but somebody is inevitably going to be out of sorts at any big family occasion no matter what, especially if said occasion involves gifts or out-of-town travel. (And the offended person is going to be a woman 99% of the time, sigh.)

 

All we can do is pick a set of rules to follow and hope they're mostly the "right" ones for our audience. Then we grit our teeth as our mothers relay a few secondhand complaints (why are they always passed along in this roundabout, passive-aggressive way?) and just move on, reminding ourselves that a *real* etiquette maven would have followed MyCrazyHouse's excellent rule about not condemning anyone for using a different set of rules. And that at the end of the day, it's a party-- the fate of the world does not rest on it.

[mommaduck]

Does anyone else open those threads with trepidation because you are certain you have unknowingly committed whatever breach of etiquette is being discussed?

 

I never had a shower for my wedding or any of my babies. We were married when we lived across the country from our families and no one else was even at the wedding. Sometimes I regret not having the fun memories of these events that other people do. Sometimes I feel like I dodged a bullet. I could not have escaped a wedding and reception or showers unscathed!

I'm not saying this to bash the OP of the other thread in any way. I'm just voicing my own uncertainty and discomfort and lack of familiarity with the norms of society!

Coming from a TCK, one of the most difficult things is that no one tells you the "rules" of where you have landed :( And try having parents that always tell you, "well, I thought you would have just known that" :glare: No....