1shortmomto4 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I have a VSL kiddo that needs the whole picture to parts style math -- we've tried Saxon (didn't do the drill worksheets and made it about halfway through - skipped some -- used the online homeschoolcoop program to supplement) and then just picked up the Singapore Primary 1A/B here and there (yeah, not what I wanted for the year but trying hard to figure out how this child is wired - which is differently than the rest of us). I'm wondering about McRuffy - it seems to have games, some drill and some memory/brain work. Since my little guy is awesome at puzzles, mazes, etc. I was thinking of furthering those skills by developing those skills more. I did pick up the story theme book Addition the Fun Way and he loves those stories and they stuck. Would McRuffy be a possibility? I've looked at Right Start but not an option. MUS - too much writing/drill work. Another option I was thinking about was LOF and keep on with Singapore. Just can't figure out what type of learning style McRuffy is. Help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 :lurk5: Bumping for you to see if anyone has any answers. I'm interested too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Robyn Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Although we have used several levels of McRuffy, I will have to look at the materials with that specific question in mind and get back to you on that. What I can say is that waldorf math is whole to parts (and you get cool manipulatives.) What grade level of math are you looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I can't really speak to the educational philosophy to McRuffy, but I can tell you about my experience with Color Math K. It is a lot of fun. You use manipulatives every day (and there are lots of different ones so they don't get bored). DS5 has really learned some basic mathematical principles. They cover a lot and it is sprial because they will do a lesson on greater than, less than and then do another lesson on it a couple of weeks later. Some people like the jumping around from topic to topic, some people don't. There isn't a lot of drill because there aren't that many problems per page (this might change in older years). However, it is enough for K. Also, it would be easy to add in some drill (such as MM). I am combining with Miquon and have found this to be perfect for K. McRuffy is standards based so you will not have to worry about holes. It is colorful and fun. Math is one of DS5's favorite subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I have never heard of Waldorf math - hmmmm, must do some searching. I'm looking for 3rd grade. Unfortunately, when looking at the scope and sequence of McRuffy and placement (wish they had a test) it looks like he'd fit more into the latter half of 2nd because the beginning lessons of 3rd have multiplication - haven't even touched that yet. I've really struggled with just finding a fit this year - a little this, a little that, not what I wanted but it is what it is - for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Robyn Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I thought I would come back and say McRuffy is 100% parts to whole, but looking through I see some things that I believe are whole to parts. I see a lot of things that are parts to whole though. My oldest son went into McRuffy 3 having done no multiplication and he was fine. Waldorf math is different because they teach all four properties from the beginning. Due to that, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a curriculum for a particular grade and have it match up. ALGF has an ebook for $18 (or a print version for more) for grades 1-5. If you got something like that, you could go through and pick topics to do from whatever grades. For instance, you could do the multiplication activities from grade 2, the measurement activities from grade 3, and the fractions part from grade 4 - choosing topics without paying attention to what grade they are meant for. I mean, they're putting things in a different order than is standard here, so I guess what I'm saying is it shouldn't matter what grade they do each topic in; you can use the method of each topic without using the order of each topic. That got a little long and windy. There are several other choices for Waldorf math here, but I've never used or even seen them. I see the one by Dorothy Harrer recommended often. I've read that it is not laid out as daily lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I have never heard of Waldorf math - hmmmm, must do some searching. I'm looking for 3rd grade. Unfortunately, when looking at the scope and sequence of McRuffy and placement (wish they had a test) it looks like he'd fit more into the latter half of 2nd because the beginning lessons of 3rd have multiplication - haven't even touched that yet. I've really struggled with just finding a fit this year - a little this, a little that, not what I wanted but it is what it is - for now. McRuffy is great for visual, hands-on kids. My older DD is a rising 3rd grader and has barely begun McRuffy 2. I'd ignore the grade levels (hard to do, I know) and just meet him where he's at. I have the 2nd grade TM and workbook, so if you have any specific questions about that level, just ask. It's probably not necessary to add additional drill. It has a lot of built-in review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I guess the reason I was looking at the McRuffy was the hands-on games. We had used the LA when we first started in K and he enjoyed the stories and the games and learned a lot but when we got halfway through he got bogged down and I abandoned the McRuffy camp for anything. He does very well with some hands-on but if you give him too many hands-on things he starts making stories up with them. We worked through a lot of Saxon math 2 and he loves the tangrams. He doesn't need to make pictures to show the math concept, he just wants to be shown and then move on. The idea that there is a not a lot of problems per page is definitely appealing! We tried BJU but that was a bust so still wandering with this little fellow. I'd like to find something and stick with it - if McRuffy worked I'd at least have 3 years and a chance for him to mature more. I really appreciate your guys wonderful dialogue- it has been so very helpful. Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 It's probably not necessary to add additional drill. It has a lot of built-in review. That is really good to know. I have been trying to decide whether to stick with McRuffy throughout early elementary because I was worried about the lack of review. It is hard to judge just from K math though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 That is really good to know. I have been trying to decide whether to stick with McRuffy throughout early elementary because I was worried about the lack of review. It is hard to judge just from K math though! In first grade there are timed daily drills. They take maybe 1-2 minutes to do. The repetition built into the curriculum has led to my DD having a phenomenal recall of addition facts and a strong handle on her subtraction facts. Seriously, the girl is FAST. And, it has been painless for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 For my whole to part learners I'm using a solid math program for over half of our time (Singapore). I supplement with living math books and DVDs that introduce concepts beyond the level they are working at in their math curriculum. I also supplement with a drill program below the level of their math program. It has been working very well for them so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Can anyone tell me exactly what whole to parts means??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Can anyone tell me exactly what whole to parts means??? :lol: I was hoping someone would ask! I've never heard of it in relation to math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I have a VSL kiddo that needs the whole picture to parts style math -- we've tried Saxon (didn't do the drill worksheets and made it about halfway through - skipped some -- used the online homeschoolcoop program to supplement) and then just picked up the Singapore Primary 1A/B here and there (yeah, not what I wanted for the year but trying hard to figure out how this child is wired - which is differently than the rest of us). I'm wondering about McRuffy - it seems to have games, some drill and some memory/brain work. Since my little guy is awesome at puzzles, mazes, etc. I was thinking of furthering those skills by developing those skills more. I did pick up the story theme book Addition the Fun Way and he loves those stories and they stuck. Would McRuffy be a possibility? I've looked at Right Start but not an option. MUS - too much writing/drill work. Another option I was thinking about was LOF and keep on with Singapore. Just can't figure out what type of learning style McRuffy is. Help.... I don't know anything about McRuffy, but you might enjoy looking at the MEP (Mathematics Enhancement Programme) materials. The student problems are quite puzzle-like and may appeal to your son. The files can be downloaded without cost from the Centre for Innovation in Mathematics Teaching website. The IP materials in Singapore also have this sort of mentally challenging problems. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 :lol: I was hoping someone would ask! I've never heard of it in relation to math. Just my take on things, but I think it means having a problem to solve before being given the tools to solve it. Before I see it's use, there is no use. Before I see the big picture, the little pictures mean nothing to me. The worst thing in the WORLD is a string of meaningless "problems" to solve. Strike that - the worst thing is a string of problems where I'm supposed to intuitively know that moving through these problems is teaching me something:001_huh:. Word problems are fun though. My VSL can come up with the answers much faster than he can explain how he solved it...when he's trying to explain is the best time to show him a new concept or algorithm. (Multiplication is simply fast adding. When you put it that way, it's a great and merciful time-saver that you can show your ds how to use. Division is happily learned by figuring out how many treats each child gets from the box...mutliples/divisions of 3 have been THOROUGHLY mastered here.:lol:) Miquon might just be what you are looking for. The Cuisenaire Rods make everything a concrete and *visual* lesson. My VSL excells with this...my only beef with it is that it doesn't take us up through 6th grade. I've not found a good fit for math beyond Miquon quite yet...sigh... "Living math" is worth looking into also. There are so many good kids books that teach math. Check your library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 :lol: I was hoping someone would ask! I've never heard of it in relation to math. For my kids it can mean that they learn easier math by exploring more difficult math. Seeing math at work in a bigger picture seems to help them understand the math at their curriculum level. So I utilize things like living books to introduce and explore new topics above their curriculum level. When we arrive at that later in our standard curriculum they usually understand it quickly and move on. ETA: I have two whole-to-part learners, but only one is a visual-spatial learner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I loved the looks of Miquon but I couldn't understand it myself. I guess I learned math the old way and have troubles learning or teaching it any other way. I do throw in math living books as often as possible and that has helped some. With this little guy (I hesitate to use the word little because he's built like a lineman ;) I never know what is processing in that brain. He learned how to read and spell by listening in from another room while playing cars/soldiers/legos to his older brother's lessons. When it came time to start learning to read the basics were in place and I had no clue that he had retained any of it. I really need to have a TM or schedule or something that keeps me on track with assignments because I've got 3 older kids and I'm, sssshhhh, forgetful. I have good intentions in my head but if it is not in front of me, ack! it may or may not happen. What about Life of Fred - the new stuff that is coming out? I just wish my crystal ball was out of the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Robyn Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Can anyone tell me exactly what whole to parts means??? From what I've read, in Waldorf they make their math whole-parts in this way: Instead of asking a bunch of addition problems or multiplication problems, they will ask, "What is 10?" The child can answer in as many ways as they can think of: 5+5, 3+7, 2x2... I think division (and so fractions and decimals) and subtraction are kind of whole-parts without trying. Obviously you have a whole thing or group and then you take part of it away to see the other part or you divide the parts up or whatever. I think this must be part of why they use all four processes from the beginning. They give the whole sense of a number (as things added together, as what's left after subtracting from X, as X 3 times, etc.) from the beginning and then spend time focusing on the parts (like focusing on the times tables for awhile). Please keep in mind that I am far from an expert on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 From what I've read, in Waldorf they make their math whole-parts in this way: Instead of asking a bunch of addition problems or multiplication problems, they will ask, "What is 10?" The child can answer in as many ways as they can think of: 5+5, 3+7, 2x2... I think division (and so fractions and decimals) and subtraction are kind of whole-parts without trying. Obviously you have a whole thing or group and then you take part of it away to see the other part or you divide the parts up or whatever. I think this must be part of why they use all four processes from the beginning. They give the whole sense of a number (as things added together, as what's left after subtracting from X, as X 3 times, etc.) from the beginning and then spend time focusing on the parts (like focusing on the times tables for awhile). Please keep in mind that I am far from an expert on this. :iagree: I am not completely clear on it, but I thought that is something like this. Addition starts with 10= 1+9 10= 2+8 etc. So, you see the whole, then the parts. Visually, you start with 10 acorns (or whatever) then break it down into parts different ways. I'm sure there is more to the whole to parts thing in math, but that is what I thought the basics concept was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 From what I've read, in Waldorf they make their math whole-parts in this way: Instead of asking a bunch of addition problems or multiplication problems, they will ask, "What is 10?" The child can answer in as many ways as they can think of: 5+5, 3+7, 2x2... I think division (and so fractions and decimals) and subtraction are kind of whole-parts without trying. Obviously you have a whole thing or group and then you take part of it away to see the other part or you divide the parts up or whatever. I think this must be part of why they use all four processes from the beginning. They give the whole sense of a number (as things added together, as what's left after subtracting from X, as X 3 times, etc.) from the beginning and then spend time focusing on the parts (like focusing on the times tables for awhile). Please keep in mind that I am far from an expert on this. In that case, OP, go check out the early elementary Life of Fred books (apples, butterflies, cats and dogs). They look awesome and the math is in context. It's a supplement not a stand-alone, but would probably work well with whatever math program you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I loved the looks of Miquon but I couldn't understand it myself. I guess I learned math the old way and have troubles learning or teaching it any other way. Did you read the Tearcher's books? Miquon is not a program where one can just "wing it" until one understands how it works. But then it is a very natural and intuitive way to learn and teach math. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Life of Fred + Miquon would be such a cool combination. OP, be the guinea pig and let us know how that combo works! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Where would I start a third grader with the Miquon? And which books would I need to read so that I could comfortably teach it? How many books would you do in a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Where would I start a third grader with the Miquon? And which books would I need to read so that I could comfortably teach it? How many books would you do in a year? With a 3rd Grader the ship has likely sailed. The Yellow and Purple books were considered 3rd grade (in 1964, when the program was written) but the real "magic" of Miquon is starting it (and activities based on Miquon-like ideas) when a child is first exposed to math. The Teacher books include The First Grade Diary (which applies equally well to Pre-k), Lab Annotations, and Notes to Teachers. If you didn't read these, and got confused looking at the Orange Level student pages, consider yourself "normal" :D I think very few people could "get" Miquon without doing a little reading. But once it "clicks" it is a very intuitive way to teach and learn. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I wouldn't start Miquon with a 3rd grader either. However, if you have any other kids, I would seriously think about it. It isn't hard to teach. You need to read the teacher books. Then, you need to stand back and let the kids figure things out themselves. I wait until DS5 asks me a question before I give him instruction. Since the child is figuring things out on his own, he really owns the material! It is amazing what a child can figure out mathematically. I love Miquon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.