purplemommy Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I recently sat in on several of Susan's workshops at a Homeschool Convention in Houston, TX. I have the book, "The Well Trained Mind". In fact, I have had it for years. Unfortunately, I read it, and put it on my shelf. I deemed the classical methodology "too difficult" for my complicated life. I now realize my mistake. I came away from the convention pretty depressed, but with a resolve to do better for my daughter. She is 14 and has embarked on high school level courses. However, I am realizing that I did not properly establish a foundation for her to build upon. Because of several factors, one being a special needs younger sibling, cross country moves, etc. I now know that I put far too much of her learning upon her shoulders - independent learning too early. I see that I have to rectify this situation immediately. My question is HOW? I am re-reading WTM. I see issues in the grammar stage that I neglected. Do I go back that far and fill in the gaps? How do I fill in the gaps and still enable her to press on with high school courses? A lot of the "gaps" are things that I never learned myself, so I am planning on getting "The Well Educated Mind". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I think it would help to know what the gaps are. Could you elaborate on where you see her education lacking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemommy Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 The gaps are most evident in Laguage Arts - grammar: sentence diagramming (something I never learned!) , proper paragraph formation, etc; memorizing spelling rules. We never did dictation, narration, nor did we read any of the classics at a lower level. There are more, but I left the book and notes downstairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I am in a similar situation with my 10 (soon to be 11) year old son...The only way I have figured out to fill in the gaps is to go back and actually cover the stuff that was missing...We are doing a less intensive summer session this year (and probably every year) so we can keep moving forward...The outling section in the logic stage of WTM is a great resource... You may have to go back to a grammar book from a few levels below to bring her up to high school level...Rod & Staff seems to be very good at reviewing and has lots of sentence diagraming... Just go back now and do those things - dictation, narration, etc...Take a look at Writing With Ease and see if that would help you or if it is too easy...My son is only doing WWE 2 because we started so late... I often feel discouraged because I didn't know about WTM before and my son is behind from my lack of presenting to him what I should have...But I am VERY grateful to have found it now and have the chance to go back and fill in those gaps before I tried to send him to college :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The gaps are most evident in Laguage Arts - grammar: sentence diagramming (something I never learned!) , proper paragraph formation, etc; memorizing spelling rules. We never did dictation, narration, nor did we read any of the classics at a lower level. There are more, but I left the book and notes downstairs. Did your dd learn to read using phonics/phonograms approach or "whole language"? How is she with spelling? with reading comprehension? My son will be in 7th grade and we will be starting 5th grade Rod & Staff for grammar, since I wasn't satisfied with the program we've used for the last couple years - waste of time. I'll be learning right alongside. . . . So, you're not alone! The writing program we'll be using starts in 4th grade. . . but, like you, I'd rather remediate now and go for a stronger academic foundation, than have him less than ready and confident for college - and life! We will work at an accelerated pace, which shouldn't be a problem to get caught up within the next couple years. I'm not worried about it. As far as going back to the grammar stage of learning for your dd. . . . If I understand the crux of classical education, it is the 2,000 yr old method of learning, really. So, we are teaching our dc *how* to learn. Even as adults, we learn something new by learning the grammar of it first, then move into logic stage with understanding, then to the rhetorical stage where we know it so well, we can teach it. I came to understand this better after reading The Core by Leigh Bortins. Anyway, I'd like to hear what others have done in your/our situation, so I'll be listening :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I haven't reached high school level with my crew yet, but I can speak from my experience as a high school student. I made it to 11th grade in the PS system with a rudimentary understanding of grammar, and zero ability to diagram sentences or identify parts of speech. (Unless they had a corresponding School House Rock song. :blushing: ) I knew basic punctuation rules and my writing was okay, but only because I read so much. (All my grammar was instinctual, not intentional.) I had teachers in the 11th and 12th grades that completely caught me up and prepared me for writing on a college level. Their instruction, coupled with Latin, finally gave me an understanding of how it all worked together and allowed me to master the information and skills I needed. Take heart- it can be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 My advice (for what it's worth--my kids have all been semi-classically homeschooled from day 1) would be to take a remedial approach and get curricula that are meant for younger grades, but would give her a solid foundation and get her caught up. I would get Analytical Grammar and do the 1 year approach. That should get her caught up on grammar. For writing, you might try Writing With Ease 4--it would be young for her, but it would hit some of the gaps. IEW might also be a good option. And then maybe get her reading some of the easier classics and make sure she's fully understanding them--if you are doing the 4 year history cycle, I would probably go by whatever TWTM recommends for logic stage for that era of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Well there are several different ways you could go. Is she pretty good at spelling? I might use the last 3 levels of Spelling Workout, which would also serve as a vocabulary study for her and then move into something like Vocabulary from Classical Roots or another straight vocab program (and if you still want to work on spelling, she could spell those vocab words, too). This should only take about 10-20 minutes a day, even if you're moving through two books per year in order to help her catch up. For grammar, there are numerous good grammar programs. Pick one and start with it. It might take another 20 minutes a day. Some, such as Rod and Staff or Abeka, have writing built in for things like paragraphs. Or you could choose a separate writing program. I might spend another 30 minutes a day on paragraph writing with her until you're comfortable with that. You could intermingle some narration and dictation exercises as part of the paragraph writing. So all those would add up to about an extra hour in your day. As for reading classics, it's never too late to start. You might choose classics that fit with the time period in history you're studying (although you certainly don't have to do that - I just happen to think it enhances your studies all 'round). Hope your journey goes well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 My advice (for what it's worth--my kids have all been semi-classically homeschooled from day 1) would be to take a remedial approach and get curricula that are meant for younger grades, but would give her a solid foundation and get her caught up. I would get Analytical Grammar and do the 1 year approach. That should get her caught up on grammar. For writing, you might try Writing With Ease 4--it would be young for her, but it would hit some of the gaps. IEW might also be a good option. And then maybe get her reading some of the easier classics and make sure she's fully understanding them--if you are doing the 4 year history cycle, I would probably go by whatever TWTM recommends for logic stage for that era of history. Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffe Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Giving this a bump for the OP. Lots of great ideas - hoping some more will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Really, unless you have more time and energy than before, I would suggest you outsource a little. Let the learning your daughter gains from a secondary source benefit you as well to help you teach your even younger children as they get older. The Potter's School has an awesome Language Arts sequence. They have a placement test so you could identify exactly where your daughter's weaknesses lie and what course would be appropriate. After a year of outside instruction, you could decide what the rest of high school Language Arts will look like and rather or not you want to continue to outsource. It doesn't have to be a multi-year solution, but it would give you as a teacher a better idea of what to expect and how to plan and it would give your daughter a really good base. Here's a link: http://pottersschool.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 As for reading classics, it's never too late to start. You might choose classics that fit with the time period in history you're studying (although you certainly don't have to do that - I just happen to think it enhances your studies all 'round). Hope your journey goes well! A comment about reading the classics. Not only is it never too late to start, but there are enough classics out there to keep you busy for years. I read a lot during high school and have a college degree in English. There are still well crafted classics that I've never read. (This week I'm finally getting around to reading some Chesterton. He probably won't ever make a great books list, but is a grand author who I've just missed for 30+ years of reading.) When I look at a list of classics, I see that I've read many. But I also see that there are many more that I'm not yet familiar with. Which should encourage you to keep plugging. It's not meant to discourage you with the idea that the task is never done. I'm thrilled with the idea that I won't run out of quality books to read. I think it is worth going back and making sure your kid has good skills in grammar. But I bet she can pick it up pretty quickly. It's not like you have a 14 yo who is looking at going back and repeating 2nd grade. But you may have to do some scaffolding of learning grammar in language arts while also reading higher level (and age appropriate) stuff in literature and history. In other words, I wouldn't wait to tackle the deeper levels of history and literature until she can diagram all her sentences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemommy Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Thank you all for such great advice!! We have primarily used a CM methodology due to a younger special needs DD, but I have always had my eye on the classical method. I mistakenly thought it would be "too difficult" to adhere to with the other issues going on. However, I have always insisted my daughter read "real" books - she is a voracious reader, like me. I am heading down to the used homeschool bookstore tomorrow :auto: to see what I can find. A Beka Grammar & Composition is on the list, as well as First Language Lessons - for getting caught up. Then we will probably move to Analytical Grammar. As for the person who suggested outside help - gosh, I wish! Out of my league, financially. Fortunately, I feel better about our path, and I am actually excited to learn alongside my DD. Thank you all again for all of your fine recommendations!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemommy Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 I think it is worth going back and making sure your kid has good skills in grammar. But I bet she can pick it up pretty quickly. It's not like you have a 14 yo who is looking at going back and repeating 2nd grade. But you may have to do some scaffolding of learning grammar in language arts while also reading higher level (and age appropriate) stuff in literature and history. I like that terminology, "Scaffolding of learning" .... that is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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