Edison Trait Children in Middle School

[AuntPol]

I've read several books on RIght Brained Children, Visual Spatials, Kinesthetic Learners, etc. Two books that really seem to describe my daughter are Dreamers , Discoverers, and Dynamos and the portions of Strong Willed or Dreamer that I was able to read online (I've ordered it),

 

Now in elementary school, it seems rather easy to accomodate an Edison Trait child. It's fun to to just play all day and follow their interests. However, we're about to enter 7th grade and my daughter is about to make me lose my mind. I just can't embrace her traits and feel comfortable about her education. Now if she was actually working in area of interest like Jackie's child, maybe I could. Unfortunately, this child's interests are very typical preteen interests (Monster High, Youtube, shopping for clothes, makeup, boys, Taylor Swift, Disney/Nick shows). She has ZERO interest in academics. Occasionally something pops up but as soon as there is an academic component, she's gone. She has no perseverance skills. As soon as it requires work, she's gone.

 

 

Things I see to do:

1. Give them a to-do list so they can just do it and get to what they want to do faster.

 

The problem is she will fly through the work and do work that is at a level of barely passing. She will check off anything that has no turn-in component as done when it was not read, etc. She does this so that she can get to do what she wants to do.

 

2. Use of Fantasy

 

The example in the book is not Reading fantasy like Narnia, etc. It's adding fantasy to regular lessons. The example was in learning to read but we're beyond that. I don't know how to add this to a middle school day.

 

My daughter loves to fantasize. SHe makes youtube videos about Monster High Dolls all day long. However, she hates Historical Fiction and can not imagine that she is the character in a book.

 

3. Multi-Sensory Experience

 

Again examples were aimed at elementary school. I've tried having her act out her reading but she doesn't want to read it to act it out, She only wants to act out what she herself comes up with. Same with history. She doesn't want to do anything related to school period. She made a video yesterday about her history lesson and it was very obvious that she had only read the title and the captions of the pictures and had no clue about what the chapter was about. I can not make her read it. SHE WILL NOT READ unless it's one of three series or a fan magazine or something on google that she wants to read. Her eyes have been checked. She can read and she doesn't have dyslexia. I offer projects but she doesn't want to do them. She seems them as making the school day longer. She would rather just do the boring stuff quickly and be done than do the boring stuff and some fun stuff. Now she would be okay to do that project instead of school but would have no idea of what the project means becuse she doesn't want to learn the background (doesn't want to read, doesn't want to be read to, doesn't want to watch a documentary).

 

4. Visual Cues.

 

We do this and she's pretty organized. Way more organized than I am!

 

5. Visual Models.

 

models, diagrams, comic books was all I could dicpher from this portion of book.

 

6. Learning thorugh Self-Expression

 

-Dictated Writing (Really, in middle school ??????)

-Journalling

 

5. Emphasis on Quality not Quantity

-Mostly about not putting too many math problems on page and writing Slow down on top of paper

 

what about middle school????

[elegantlion]

Those two books helped me understand ds. However, in our household my dh is the perfect example of a dynamo, I'm more the dreamer, and ds is the discoverer. I learned HOW to learn in a traditional way, but dh and ds don't.

 

My ds went through a video making stage as well. We allowed him to create a youtube account and post his videos. We had pretty strict guidelines, most of them were short lego or gaming walk through videos. So there was an interest. I did not make any of it school related, but gave him the free time to explore before and after school. That has been my goal, allow him time to explore and discover outside of school.

 

My son tends to focus on an interest for a while then change. They've kind of snowballed into a computer interest. Next year, per his request, he'll be studying computer science for school. Not sure how it's going to look exactly. It's taken me a year or more to fold that interest into academics, kwim.

 

I don't ask that my son love school, he doesn't. I didn't, neither did dh. I don't take it personally. I take education seriously, but we don't approach it in a traditional manner.

 

 

Because I have one we can go really outside the box. We do a lot of discussion, I let him have some say in what he studies, and we discuss his future a lot. I try to show him how his interests might work into a career. He's not at the point where I can trust him to do all the work assigned on his own. We do a lot of things together, mainly because I prefer to structure our learning that way.

 

I don't know if any of this is useful. I was not surprised when some of these differences arose in ds, he's very much like dh in that respect.

[AuntPol]

I want her to develop skills! I want her to be educated. I want her to go to college. She however, has no interest in academics whatsoever. She also is a project starter, but rarely finishes. These things keep me from having courage to be unschooler.

 

She hates to read (except a few select twaddle books and Tiger Beat type mags)

SHe hates read alouds

She hates audio books

She hates lectures

She hates documentaries

She hates historical movies, old movies, or any movie that she suspects has something to learn or a character lesson in it.

She hates math

She hates doing any science that requires to think. She likes the Wow but not the why.

She hates assigned topics in writing but will only pick same topic and write same 5 sentences if I assign a topic. She doesn't put forth any effort into her writing.

She can pass her spelling tests and do grammar exercises but can't apply it to her writing. She can't grasp adverbs and clauses though.

She hates Latin

She hates worksheets

She hates narration (oral or written)

She hates history

She hates doing projects (she actually likes the projects but sees them as an extension of her day so therefore hates them. She will do the project but doesn't want to do the background work so the project is meaningless and she learns nothing. What good is it to make a model of the Great Wall of CHina if you have no idea).

She doesn't like anything that she thinks I would like

She doesn' like anything if it's assigned.

If she has an interest and I buy her something to extend it, she looses int erest. Even if she asked me to buy it.

She doesn't like to put effort into anything. If she can't learn it in 5 minutes, then it's "too hard"

She doesn't want to practice anything.

She doesn't want to improve in anything

She does not want instruction in anything. SHe has to figure it out herself (and drop it if she doesn't get it in 5 minutes).

She hates grades, teacher comments, tests

She hates competition (but wants to be the best and is insulted if she's not the best).

She can't do anything as assigned -she has to find a way to alter it. We go through this a lot w/Scout Badges.

She hates to have discussions unless they are about her (only about how good she is, no criticism), about how bad everyone else in the world is, about what you are going to buy her and what she wants you to buy her, about her birthday, her CHristmas list, and occasionally celebrity gossip or something on Hannah Montana.

Edited May 26, 2011 by AuntPol

[AuntPol]

I do allow her to have a youtube channel and post her videos. I tell her she can do any narration with a video for school but I don't assign it.

 

I love her creativity that she shows in her interests. I want her to homeschool so that she can have that extra time pursuing those interests instead of being bogged down with homework.

 

I don't care anymore that she enjoy school but I want her to do her work. I'm tired of her not reading the assigned books and lying about it and faking narrations. I'm tired of her writing about dolphins and only about dolphins and only the same sentences about dolphins, week after week. I'm tired of any of her writing being about the level of a 2nd grader. I'm tired of her not retaining ANYTHING. I'm tired of finding her playing video games or texting when she is supposed to be doing school. I'm tired of her lying to me that she did whatever (anything that doesn't have a written component to turn in or swearing she turned in something written and I must have lost it when I know for a fact the book has been under my bed and she hasn't asked for it). I'm tired of her crying, sulking, pouting, and slamming things around because I expect her to do school and do it well during school hours and not be making videos, texting, making doll furniture, etc. I'm tired of every single time I catch her in a lie or make her work, she has a meltdown and wants to go to school. I'm tired that EVERYTHING is boring on a daily basis. I hate hearing her tell everyone that listens how boring school is and how much she hates it.

[AuntPol]

The hardest is not comparing her to my son

-THe one who spends his free time on Khan Academy.

-The one who remembers everything I read to him or that he reads

-The one that always knows the answers.

-The one that screamed for joy because his new math book came in.

-THe one that gets excited over almost every lesson.

 

He is such a joy to teach for most part. He's got organizational issues that are aggravating and he's very slow but he gets it, he likes it, he retains it, and he applies it.

 

She doesn't get it, she doesn't like it, she doesn't retain it, and she doesn't apply it.

 

 

But to be fair

-She works great off a check list. She gets it done in a timely (too timely manner). If she retained it, then I would be okay.

-She is a problem solver. She has initiative. She's creative. some examples

 

-A friend's child broke my dd's monster high doll. She contacted Mattel on her own and ask for a replacment part. They sent her a new doll. I would have thrown doll away and bought another. It would not have occured to me to contact company.

-She wanted her dad to hang curtains, a beaded curtain, a sign over her door. He never got around to it (he never gets around to it-ever). So she did it herself and hung up some stuff for me (I'm phobic about tools and stuff like that).

-She took a cake decorating class in Co-op-very basic. She's learned more on her own and made a princess doll cake for a sleepover.

-She decided to take tap. She didn't want to be in Tap 1 because it was little kids. She wanted to be in Tap 2. SHe got on youtube and taught herself all the moves and auditioned for Tap 2 and got in. She is now the star student of the class.

-She wanted to take guitar classes that a friend of hers was taking. It was past the sign up date. She emailed the school pretending to be a parent and inquired on how to get her daughter in. The school was willing to work with her but the class was not supposed to have let her friend in either as it was a year long class and it part way into second semester. However, she tried. I would just look at calendar and say -it's past sign up and walk away.

 

**If I could get her to apply her talents to something that actually mattered, she'd be awesome!

[elegantlion]

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry.

 

Sounds like she has many non-traditional things that do matter to her. You said "**If I could get her to apply her talents to something that actually mattered, she'd be awesome!" Gently: do you think that these creative things don't matter? Or do they not matter academically?

 

Could she be balking at the things you feel are important? Could it be because she feels you find her interests not important? (Not saying you don't, but could she be perceiving it that way?)

 

Not sure I have any advice. Hopefully some others with those creative kids will chime in.

[elegantlion]

Sorry to thread jack. My son is very interested in doing this. He watches these walk throughs all the time. Heck, perhaps he has watched your son. ;)

 

I am not too familiar with exactly how youtube works. I know people can leave comments, etc. Does the account owner have control over the comments or over who can leave them (or can they be deleted)? I don't want to get into that. My son is sensitive (and only 9) so I don't want it to be a negative experience. You know how nasty people can get on the net.

 

I think you can set it up so comments can not be left. I'm not exactly sure as dh helped him set up the account. We also let him have a little free reign after much discussion about internet safety and internet "friends". At 9 we would have been more guarded. I had no clue that youtube had it's own social network until ds set up his account.

[JennW in SoCal]

First of all, a big :grouphug:. And some chocolate, wine or treat of your choice!

 

I'm having flashbacks from reading your posts to my oldest at this age. It is a frustrating, maddening, brutal time getting a stubborn but creative child through the middle school years. Did I say flashbacks? Just thinking about it is more like post traumatic stress syndrome. But I want to think about it to give you some hope and ideas for coping with the next couple of years. And high school.

 

Yes. Years. The journey through the puberty years seems to make some kids exceptionally challenging, and while there are periods when they are rational and charming, they are otherwise a huge piece of work.

 

But the good news is that my oldest ds and I survived. Somehow. He isn't dead and I'm not in jail, so that is the first bit of good news. He is a wonderful and functional young adult, which is the second piece of good news. Still very creative and stubborn, but crafting a career that utilizes his creative streak. And he is very happy and appreciative of having been homeschooled.

 

I think the hardest thing with kids like this is that the kind of education that best fits them is nothing like the ideal homeschool we dream of. It is how they are wired. Like you, my other child likes academics and is a pleasure to homeschool, so I knew it wasn't the fault of my WTM inspired plans.

 

You've already realized that checklists work. Keep using them. But maybe re-think what is essential for your dd. You want her to have a well -rounded education and know that she is prepared for college, but you can tweak the nuts and bolts of that education to fit her and STILL fit your ideals of what is essential. Essential -- I've used it twice now, so what does it mean?

 

Well -- the three Rs. And often times those three Rs revolved around my ds's passionate interests. He had a math tutor for a while who had my ds make up word problems for whatever concept he was learning. My ds loved all things Disney, so he researched on-line the wait times for rides for a particular week, then did a word problem about average wait times at Space Mountain, complete with illustrations. I had my ds start reading the business section of the newspaper and follow Disney stock, and his grandfather bought him some shares. He had to create budgets for fantasy vacations to Disneyworld, including airfare.

 

I read aloud, whether he liked it or not. He had to write a narration or maybe two per week. For me it was quality over quantity. It was easier on both of us to not insist on so much output, and in retrospect it was a good decision. He writes well, still will argue until he is blue in the face that something or another is stupid, pointless and a waste of time, but he can do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.

 

The best thing I ever did with my ds was to find outside venues to explore and develop his creativity. For him it was theater and both choir and the tech team at church. He is heading to a professional school this fall for a BS degree in show production, and is earning money as a lighting designer in local community and school theater productions and on the church tech team. All his years creating movies and special effects are paying off, and he is well respected by his fellow professionals and former mentors.

 

I keep getting interrupted while writing this and now have to head out the door. I hope it makes sense!! Hang in there, Aunt Pol. I always add more later if it would help!

[wapiti]

Has she already been evaluated for LDs? by what sort of doc? what kind of eye checkup did she have?

Edited May 26, 2011 by wapiti

[AuntPol]

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry.

 

Sounds like she has many non-traditional things that do matter to her. You said "**If I could get her to apply her talents to something that actually mattered, she'd be awesome!" Gently: do you think that these creative things don't matter? Or do they not matter academically?

 

Could she be balking at the things you feel are important? Could it be because she feels you find her interests not important? (Not saying you don't, but could she be perceiving it that way?)

 

Not sure I have any advice. Hopefully some others with those creative kids will chime in.

 

I think creativity matters a lot. That is why I want her to apply her creativity to her studies!

 

I do not think that shopping, video games, clothes, Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, American Idol, and Monster High matter. These will not get her into college. I don't know of any scholarships for being the best dressed or owning the most Monster High dolls. However, I do not care if she indulges in these interests (except shopping) during her free time. I will listen to her talk about them to a point.

 

Shopping is a whole thread in itself..........We fight daily over her desire to shop and want things. I mean loud, screaming fights because she can't let it go until I scream. She can't take no for an answer. She has to push me until I scream so that I can become the bad guy. If you ask her, she is the most deprived child in the world when reality is she is one of the most well-off, owns most things children in our co-op.

 

I get very irritated that she only wants to talk to me if we talk about her, and her interests- even though we already discussed her and her interests in the same exact manner 2 hours earlier. The only time she wants to talk about something other than her and her interests is to talk negatively about everything and everyone else under the sun. She complains ad nauseum. My son usually ends up screaming at her once a day to stop her whining and complaining. It makes us all miserable.

 

Yes, I believe she is contrary for the sake of being contrary. She seeks my approval but she balks at anything she knows I would approve of. If I do approve of it, then she moves on to another interests or becomes interested in it in a way I can't support (usually it involves money). She and I have serious, very serious, issues over money. She is not happy unless she is spending money (My money particularly) and whatever we buy only makes her happy for about 5 minutes and then she wants something else. Nothing makes her happy for very long. If I buy her the dress she wanted for 3 months, she barely has it out of the bag before she can't wear it because she needs shoes to go with it or something. It doesn't matter what. If she wanted a new doll and gets it for Easter plus gets an extra one, then it's not enough because she doesn't have this other one. If someone has something she doesn't have, she is so jealous that she can't contain it. I don't care if they have nothing else to their name and the only cool thing they own is this one thing and none of her other friends have it -she has to have it too and she's the ONLY one that doesn't have it.

 

DH and I are about to take her to therapy due to her inability to be content. Her always needing the next thrill scares me as far as alcohol, drugs, and sex.

[AuntPol]

Thanks Jenn -yes add more. I think I've had a dozen posts in past few months on this child. I am losing it.

 

I really don't know what the bare minimum would be or what would get at least decent enough results for her to be educated and well rounded.

 

Wapati- we had her eyes checked in early elementary and had her checked for dsylexia. She can read fine. She never got phonics though and thus is a terrible speller and is a sight reader. No one has ever deteced any dsylexia. Her comprehension issues stem from not reading but skimming.. Her whole life has been -just get it done, fill out whatever you want on test or worksheet so you can check the box and be done. She doesnt' care if it's correct or not. She can write legibly and write beautifully IF SHE CHOOSES. Again, it's throw something on paper to check the box.

 

Now that we are out of school, I don't know how to proceed. SHe seems to have ADHD and as I said fits the Edision Trait to the tee. I'd like to get her tested again for dsylexia and Auditory processing disorder but I don't know where to begin. I also don't have money for it. Our insurance has a $5ooo deductible each year before they will spend a penny. We don't have any extra money right now. We are ramen noodle broke! Additionally, she is very high IQ so she compensates well if she has any LDs.

 

My son has Aspergers. He is nowhere as difficult as she is. He has his issues and his meltdowns too but he loves to learn! He does his best even when he doesn't like it.

 

One day something is boring because it's too easy. The next day it's too hard. She will throw anything and everything under the sun at me to try to avoid working. If you ask her a question, she responds with a question. She is the queen of red herrings. She will never directly answer you. When she gets caught cheating/lying, etc, it's tears and tears -either a) Red Herrring: I want to go to public school. or B) I just can't understand it. or C) Insert next thing that pops in her head that she thinks will work.

[brownie]

Only talking about herself...that seems like an Asp thing and I know she's not Asp but I believe she could have pieces of it and certainly not have the whole shebang. Does that make sense? In other words Asp is the coming together of a bunch of issues that bog the kid down enough to be disabling to a degree. But siblings often have some of those same issues. Just thinking it might help to think of the self-centeredness from the same perspective you see the Asp. We have similar issues here. DS is Asp but his brother has more anxiety, more sensory issues and more meltdowns...just no social issues.

 

Brownie

[AuntPol]

Yes, I am sure she's somewhere on the spectrum. DH and I were discussing tonight if she might be bipolar. I hope not as we can't afford it for sure.

 

 

The self-centeredness is driving me crazy. I don't think it's an inborn traiit because she was a wonderful, giving, loving child until about middle of third grade. Then she got caught up with the rat race of school and popularity, and she became this horrible catty, selfish, materialistic child!!! We were hoping homeschooling would tame it but it did not. She still goes to church, scouts, dance, and has neighborhood friends who are the same way. She gravitates towards the shallow girls. Really, 20-40 girls in a co-op, Sunday school, etc and she is going to find the three that are overly materialistic, pop-oriented, etc. She is still not as bad as some of her friends. Some of them make me lose my mind. I really try not to encourage those friendships but not forbid them either (as soon as I forbid, they will be more enticing and then I have to explain to the other mothers why I'm such a **^#%-and honestly the mothers are great people. It always seems these types of girls have the laid back, non-materialistic sweet mothers!). I'm praying it's a preteen phase that is exaberated by her pesonality (tendencies of obsessiveness) and my overwhelming lack of patience with that type of thing.

[Guest]

I agree with others to focus on the 3R's and drop the rest for now to focus on peaceful family harmony. Being able to get along is more important that reading loads of books and knowing history.

 

I suggest you read Love and Logic and use it. Take away all her toys, cell phone, youtube, friends, Scouts, dance, shopping, whatever. I am sure she will have a nice clean room after. Try writing a behavior contract. She can earn things back as she makes changes. Harsh? Maybe. But so is her behavior. Part of that should be she will not scream at you. It is so hard to just say 'I am done talking to you about this' and walk away. My sons pull this on me every. single. day. But the up side is, they are learning to stop!

 

I think, too, when it comes to her friends' mothers, you do not need to explain anything. They do not have to live with your dd. I think I would say something like 'we are cutting our social engagements to focus more on our family right now.' I am sure you are much more eloquent and know better what you feel you need to say.

 

I would also consider dropping dairy and wheat out of her diet. These 2 are HUGE behavior triggers for my sons. Perhaps you could find some EPA/DHA (about 1500 mg a day) and GABA (2 a day) supplements? These help with brain chemistry. I am no doctor but again these have helped mine immensely.

 

Perhaps something here will help you. They are things that have worked for my sons.

[AuntPol]

 

I would also consider dropping dairy and wheat out of her diet. These 2 are HUGE behavior triggers for my sons. Perhaps you could find some EPA/DHA (about 1500 mg a day) and GABA (2 a day) supplements? These help with brain chemistry. I am no doctor but again these have helped mine immensely.

 

 

 

I would so love to do that but the only thing this child eats is carbs and dariy!!! I will look into these supplements!

[Trish]

Well, I hate housework! But I still do it. And there were certain subjects in school I wasn't in love with. Did those too.

 

For writing a 5-sentence paragraph, do you mean she is writing THE SAME sentence over and over? 5 of the same thing? That isn't really completing a writing assignment, unless it's handwriting.

 

I'm all for adjusting to our kids' difficulties, and to a certain extent, their likes and dislikes. I have a son whose handwriting is not good, and writing takes him a long time. So I do as much orally with him as I can get away with. But math must be written. Writing assignments may be shortened, but they're still done.

 

He would skip the whole day and do Legos if I let him. But privileges don't start until each day is "done," and done in acceptable way. Whether he enjoys what we're doing or not. If I felt he wasn't reading the material, I'd quiz him on it. If he HATED the book, I might try another book, or try another way to present the material (different book? video? hands on project? whatever) but it would still get presented.

 

You have to do the required stuff before you get to do the fun stuff.

[AuntPol]

Well, I hate housework! But I still do it. And there were certain subjects in school I wasn't in love with. Did those too.

 

For writing a 5-sentence paragraph, do you mean she is writing THE SAME sentence over and over? 5 of the same thing? That isn't really completing a writing assignment, unless it's handwriting.

 

 

 

No she writes a regular 5 sentence paragraph. Not a great one. We argue over the grammar. Then next time I let her pick her topic, she will pick same topic and write an almost duplicate of the last writing. Maybe 3 of the 5 sentences will be the exact same sentences and will have the exact same grammatical errors that she had last time -even though I had her rewrite them correctly the time before.

 

Now this week, I have been really coming down hard on her in writing. It's time to move on to essays and I told her I wasn't accepting any sloppy work and we were not going to take all week to do redo it. It would be redone that day. I had to make her rewrite 3 paragraphs which kept her from having time to go shopping (We were going to go look for birthday party decorations). Amazingly, her paragraphs written since then are great! Instead of run-on sentences, incomplete sentences, random periods, etc., she has there instead of their, and offer instead of offers and that's it. The voice is good. The handwriting neat.

 

She can do it. She just takes advantage of the fact that I work and so I am usually behind on narrations (I do it randomly) and checking work.

[Guest]

The fact that all she will eat are carbs and dairy are a BIG clue to get them out of her diet. We have found flaxmilk to be a darn close sub for cow. If that is not available at your Walmart, the Silk brand of soy and almond are delicious, too. just do try making pudding with them as it will not set. Yes, it is an adjustment, my oldest still will only use the vanilla flaxmilk on cereal but the pain is worth it. Just tell her this is how it is. depending on how bad her withdrawal is, it might take a few weeks to 3 months for a change. It will take at least 3 for her body to heal itself from dairy and anywhere from 6 months to a year with the wheat.

[JennW in SoCal]

Thanks Jenn -yes add more. I think I've had a dozen posts in past few months on this child. I am losing it.

 

I really don't know what the bare minimum would be or what would get at least decent enough results for her to be educated and well rounded.

 

 

I've been mulling over what to write as the issue of what is an acceptable bare minimum is a loaded one. Such discussions have turned ugly on this board before.

 

I do think that with an 11yo you have more latitude to relax than you might think. Also, sometimes it is necessary focus on discipline and family relationships, and school needs to take a back seat to that. Checklists can be used for more than schoolwork, and things like new clothes or hanging out with friends can be rewards that have to be earned. Checklists and rewards are often tools recommended for kids with ADHD or Aspergers -- it is something you can institute regardless of whether you get her tested! Keep the checklists short at first, and very cut and dry.

 

As for school. My oldest ds did most of his work sitting next to me -- all the way through high school. It was one way of keeping him on task, aside from the checklist. We kept formal school time to a minimum, too, with a half hour to 45 minutes max for each subject. He was allowed to snack while we worked, we used a big white board for math, and I usually either read aloud or we listened to audio books, though he did read independently, too. I didn't do grammar and spelling every day, either. For instance, Monday he'd do some spelling, Tuesday we'd do some grammar, Wednesday he'd write a narration. That way there was math and reading every day with either grammar, spelling or writing -- never everything on one day. Reading was my pick, so history was often covered through that.

 

School was important, a non-negotiable part of the day, but it wasn't an all day affair. 2 to 3 hours and we were done. Even in high school. And he graduated just fine, did well on standardized tests, writes well, is gainfully employed and has handled college just fine.

 

I don't recommend this for every child -- my younger ds had a very different homeschooling experience, but he is wired differently. But I homeschool so I can tailor an education to fit the child, and sometimes a child needs something vastly different. I see nothing wrong with giving a non-standard child a non-standard education. I know, though, how hard it is to do that when you are a regular on this board and see all the posts about rigor and 8 hour school days!

 

As my ds matured he could understand the need for a broad range of subjects in order to get accepted to college. I kept things smooth for him by designing courses around his interests, tailoring an American history and literature course around theater, for instance. I also let him make a video final projects in a few courses -- they were terrific!

 

Hope this helps. It sounds like you may want to shelve school for the summer. It is o.k. to raise that white flag and surrender, especially when your own sanity is at stake!!

[Sunkirst]

I've been thinking about your post since last night Aunt Pol... :grouphug:

 

I don't have that much to add, however here are a few idea:

 

Something I do with my dyslexic, writing phobic ds is to sit with him every morning and journal/diary write for 10-15 minutes. I use the time to plan my day. I never ask to see what he wrote. He could spend the entire time writing "Mom Sucks!" but I doubt it. Where's the fun in that if you can't even annoy your mom with it...

 

Allowance. My kids get one weekly, and I buy nothing for them beyond their absolute needs (they do get b-day and Christmas gifts). I started this 4 years ago after fleeing from Target with my then 4 yo dd under one arm (football style - she was throwing a tantrum and wouldn't allow me to pick her up normally). She wanted a toy, and I didn't have the money. It clicked at that point that I couldn't allow my kids to be that materialistic. They have to budget - it has worked for us.

 

Outside adults in a field that she loves - Mentors. You take yourself out of the picture so that she can't rebel against you. She sounds like a natural learner, if she could get past her contrary nature.

 

Good Luck!

[lovemykids]

Have you thought of sitting down with a list of curricula and having her look it over with you? I am sure she is aware of what needs to be covered, so let her choose which programs she would like to use. If she takes ownership of her courses, she may be a bit more willing to complete them (notice I said a "bit").:lol:

Limiting some of the internet use, cell phone, video games, etc. will be a huge help (unless the internet is being used for education). When those things are taken away, children’s interests will usually gravitate towards something a bit more beneficial. Keep the books and materials out and accessible. They do reach for them!

Checklists are good. What about if she completes and designs her own planner and checklist? Videos sound great for some assignments. Making a cake might be a good assignment for a geography class or otherwise. Maybe she could even choose a project to show you what she has learned. Also monthly or occasional reports, about how she feels about her educational pursuits could be required.

 

Let her decide how to get to college, which degree she would like to complete, etc. Then gently guide her but let her hold the reigns. It sounds like as long as she holds a degree in something, she may be able to be a great entrepreneur with all of that creativity and social ability.

 

And lastly, hugs! This is a tough age. My dd and I fight quite a bit despite trying to relax about academics. There are certain things that must be completed, but many other requirements are up for discussion and alternative action. My 12 year old dd insists on SL no matter what other curricula I try to bring up, so SL it will be (modified to her liking, of course).

I hope this helps a little. I am taking some of the advice in this thread for my home as well. Great thread!

[AuntPol]

Have you thought of sitting down with a list of curricula and having her look it over with you? I am sure she is aware of what needs to be covered, so let her choose which programs she would like to use. If she takes ownership of her courses, she may be a bit more willing to complete them (notice I said a "bit").:lol:

 

Yes I've spent hundreds of dollars on curriculum that she picked out that sits on shelf. I have Beautiful Feet History of Horses and all the books that goes with it for her horse phase. She did 2 days of that curriciulu,. I have Write the Novel Way (or something like that), and she did it about a week. I have two books for learning Greek and she may have looked at it once. I ask her opinion on everything and she doesn't care. I give her choice of classics and she doesn't care. She only wants to read twaddle if she has to read at all.

 

 

Limiting some of the internet use, cell phone, video games, etc. will be a huge help (unless the internet is being used for education). When those things are taken away, children’s interests will usually gravitate towards something a bit more beneficial. Keep the books and materials out and accessible. They do reach for them!

 

I try to limit her to an hour a day. Between school, friends, and activities, she doesn't get a lot of time.

 

Checklists are good. What about if she completes and designs her own planner and checklist? Videos sound great for some assignments. Making a cake might be a good assignment for a geography class or otherwise. Maybe she could even choose a project to show you what she has learned. Also monthly or occasional reports, about how she feels about her educational pursuits could be required.

 

I have thought of this but not sure how to implement. Any ideas? She likes to do hands on but only if the hands on is the only part of the learning. If she has to read AND do a hands on, she would rather just read so that school will be done earlier. All projects that she has created herself for school have been hastily done, poorly made. Even the things she does in free time are that way. She has very little concern with workmanship.

 

Let her decide how to get to college, which degree she would like to complete, etc. Then gently guide her but let her hold the reigns. It sounds like as long as she holds a degree in something, she may be able to be a great entrepreneur with all of that creativity and social ability.

I ask and she doesn't know. Last year, she wanted to be a dolphin trainer but when I got several people to tell her that she needed to learn Latin and Biology, practice swimming regularly, etc., she dropped it. RIght now, she wants to be a fashion designer. I can't even sew a button on, so I can't teach her how to sew and I also can't afford to outsource and don't have anyone that would be willing to teach free. She wouldn't mind being a pop star but her singing isn't that great (IMHO) and she spent all of 20 minutes trying to learn guitar before deciding it was too hard (we had some videos I got free, old music sheets from when her borther took it, etc -I can't afford guitar lessons at this point in time). Her goals are basically superficial preteen "I'm going to be rich and famous" type of deal.

 

And lastly, hugs! This is a tough age. My dd and I fight quite a bit despite trying to relax about academics. There are certain things that must be completed, but many other requirements are up for discussion and alternative action. My 12 year old dd insists on SL no matter what other curricula I try to bring up, so SL it will be (modified to her liking, of course).

I hope this helps a little. I am taking some of the advice in this thread for my home as well. Great thread!

 

I would love her to be interested in SL. It's not academic enough for me at this level but it's better than Monster High!

[almondbutterandjelly]

If all of your problems are stemming from her attitude and her character, why don't you just chuck regular school for now, and focus on those? Once you get her attitude all straightened out, then the other stuff should follow more readily. Seriously. Spend as much time obsessing over character education as you have been on her academic education. The shaping of her character is truly more important.

[lewelma]

I am so sorry you are going through this. But I agree with the previous poster. All your issues seem to revolve around attitude, and without a good attitude you child will get NO WHERE in life. I really wish there were an easy path for what you have to do -- I am currently working through it with a 7 year old who HATES everything. In the end, if a student is going to get a good education he or she has to put in the work. Sugar coating it will not fix the problem in my opinion.

 

What I would do: Ok, I am going out on a limb here, and might be totally off base, but here it is. I would take away all her toys and activities and friends. I'd talk to her about a plan, and make your expectations very clear, and stick to the plan. During the first week, if she can do 1 academic subject to her best ability and without any complaining (including facial expressions and big sighs) then on that day she could have her toys back and be allowed outings. The next day is a repeat, 1 subject done well, toys and outings are allowed. For the second week, I would require 2 academic subjects done well each day to earn back the toys for that day. For the third week, 3 subjects. Then keep with 3 subjects for a few months, then move the target up.

 

My grandfather worked as a chemist (including working on the bomb), and always told me "Geniuses are a dime a dozen in this field. I'll take a hard worker any day over a genius."

 

As I tell my children, "attitude is everything."

 

Hope this is helpful and not offensive. I do mean well. Good Luck!

 

Ruth in NZ

[Momling]

:grouphug: You have a lot of different points of view and a lot to think about! I will offer you mine too --

 

Sometimes it happens that parents who have a love of sports end up having an unathletic child... or parents who love opera have a child who don't see what the fuss is about.... bibliophiles occasionally have kids who hate reading... Our kids come to us with personalities and abilities and likes and dislikes that we ultimately won't be able to change.

 

It sounds to me that you love and value academics. You like reading and learning... And you have a daughter who just doesn't. She probably doesn't even understand why you do.

 

I wouldn't say you should give up trying to help her become a well-read, thinking, educated person. But I'd be surprised if any amount of curriculum changing or disciplining will make it easier for her to want to learn. As she gets older, you may consider shifting her education to something more vocational... not everyone wants to go (or should go) to college.

 

In your place, I would try to come to accept that her personality and opinions and future may not be aligned with your plans for her. She has all the potential to be successful in life, but it may not be the way you would envision.

[AuntPol]

If all of your problems are stemming from her attitude and her character, why don't you just chuck regular school for now, and focus on those? Once you get her attitude all straightened out, then the other stuff should follow more readily. Seriously. Spend as much time obsessing over character education as you have been on her academic education. The shaping of her character is truly more important.

 

I agree that character training is more important but I'm not sure how to do this -especially since most of the attitude problems are related to school.

 

What we already do:

Use good living books w/moral characters and discuss the character of those character often (you know the same ones she HATES to read or listen to)

Have Daily Bible Study

Go to church 2-4 times a week Do tons of volunteer work (she has over 50 hours of community service this year alone.)

Do lots of adventure, team building activities as a family

Watch movies about working hard and other traits we think are important, etc as a family and discuss

Use a lot of the ideas from the cub scout character curriculum for family nights.

We don't have cable

We limit computer time to one hour per day on weekdays.

She has chores (some are personal responsibilies -keeping room clean, bed made, feed cats and some she gets paid for -because I don't buy anything but necessities and special occasion gifts).

Her activities this past year -church ministries (band, worship team, special needs class helper), Bible Study group, dance class at Christian dance school, Girl Scouts and American Heritage Scouts (at our church) and 4-H, and Homeschool Co-Op things. All character building, wholesome, etc.

 

 

It seems we have to say NO all the time (Mostly in regards to buying something or because the time investment is unreasonable-I really think hard before I "forbid" because of her nature to love the forbidden list)

 

We give consequences -catch her on computer, lose computer for rest of day. I catch her faking a narration, read selection aloud to me, etc. (you'd think she'd learn!!!)

 

We have a pretty good relationship. She tells me everything. I'm practically the only parent in the Co-op who seems to know what is going on with all the other girls, as well as my daughter. I know who she has a crush on, who she struggles to get along with, etc. We talk about everything and usually at her instigation. We walk together several times a week and we enjoy each other's company. This makes it hard to understand why she hates everything I like LOL.

 

I am welcome to new ideas though-I am just plain tuckered out w/it being the end of the year and a busy season too boot. Throw in hormones for puberty and hormones for menopause and it's not pretty. Then my daughter has gone through this yearly phase where I do not like her from May through early Septemember every year since she was born. She was born in June and had her first fall on the floor wailing tantrum the following May! Something about May sends her over the top!

[AuntPol]

:grouphug: You have a lot of different points of view and a lot to think about! I will offer you mine too --

 

Sometimes it happens that parents who have a love of sports end up having an unathletic child... or parents who love opera have a child who don't see what the fuss is about.... bibliophiles occasionally have kids who hate reading... Our kids come to us with personalities and abilities and likes and dislikes that we ultimately won't be able to change.

 

It sounds to me that you love and value academics. You like reading and learning... And you have a daughter who just doesn't. She probably doesn't even understand why you do.

 

I wouldn't say you should give up trying to help her become a well-read, thinking, educated person. But I'd be surprised if any amount of curriculum changing or disciplining will make it easier for her to want to learn. As she gets older, you may consider shifting her education to something more vocational... not everyone wants to go (or should go) to college.

 

In your place, I would try to come to accept that her personality and opinions and future may not be aligned with your plans for her. She has all the potential to be successful in life, but it may not be the way you would envision.

 

Wow! Thanks for this. It's an interesting way of looking at it.

[lovemykids]

Yes I've spent hundreds of dollars on curriculum that she picked out that sits on shelf. I have Beautiful Feet History of Horses and all the books that goes with it for her horse phase. She did 2 days of that curriciulu,. I have Write the Novel Way (or something like that), and she did it about a week. I have two books for learning Greek and she may have looked at it once. I ask her opinion on everything and she doesn't care. I give her choice of classics and she doesn't care. She only wants to read twaddle if she has to read at all.

 

 

 

 

 

I have thought of this but not sure how to implement. Any ideas? She likes to do hands on but only if the hands on is the only part of the learning. If she has to read AND do a hands on, she would rather just read so that school will be done earlier. All projects that she has created herself for school have been hastily done, poorly made. Even the things she does in free time are that way. She has very little concern with workmanship.

 

 

 

I would love her to be interested in SL. It's not academic enough for me at this level but it's better than Monster High!

 

My oldest dd is taking a “less academic†course than what I would like, however, it’s perfectly suited to her abilities and interests. We do add many other courses and programs to SL, of course, which beefs it all up a bit. Overall, I still think she can receive a good education with SL. It leaves her time to focus on some of her other interests and passions. I am grateful for that time with this particular child. I doubt she could focus on something like Omnibus next year, for instance, but I would love it if she was “that type of kidâ€. I guess it is all about acceptance (as the previous poster mentioned), guidance, discipline and balance. It’s not an easy feat. I am fortunate that this daughter is creative and has a lot of intrinsic motivation for certain subjects.

 

Since your dd has creative abilities, why don’t you ask her if she is interested in designing her own planner? She may come up with something interesting.

 

It does sound like your dd needs to be held accountable for some of the curricula. For instance, if my dd doesn’t finish a certain course of study, I tell her that she may not have the option to choose the next year. She has to either make a concentrated effort to finish or she may be required to do “XYZ†curriculum (or possibly go to school).

 

I hope you find the light at the end of the tunnel. It’s there somewhere. :)

 

 

:grouphug: You have a lot of different points of view and a lot to think about! I will offer you mine too --

 

Sometimes it happens that parents who have a love of sports end up having an unathletic child... or parents who love opera have a child who don't see what the fuss is about.... bibliophiles occasionally have kids who hate reading... Our kids come to us with personalities and abilities and likes and dislikes that we ultimately won't be able to change.

 

It sounds to me that you love and value academics. You like reading and learning... And you have a daughter who just doesn't. She probably doesn't even understand why you do.

 

I wouldn't say you should give up trying to help her become a well-read, thinking, educated person. But I'd be surprised if any amount of curriculum changing or disciplining will make it easier for her to want to learn. As she gets older, you may consider shifting her education to something more vocational... not everyone wants to go (or should go) to college.

 

In your place, I would try to come to accept that her personality and opinions and future may not be aligned with your plans for her. She has all the potential to be successful in life, but it may not be the way you would envision.

 

Wow! Thanks for this. It's an interesting way of looking at it.

 

:iagree:

I agree. I love this, it's so true. Wise words indeed. :D

[Spock]

When my oldest was 13, he was a bit like this. I had tried several ways of teaching--unit study, unschooling with a few minimum requirements, CM, textbook, etc. Many of these were with materials he had requested. In every case, he started to hate it and complain after a few weeks. (Except the semi-unschooling, which began to morph from informal learning to all day goofing off within a couple of weeks, so I ended it myself.)

 

I even sent him to the local public school for two weeks at this time. (I discovered that even with all of his resistance and goofing off at home he was getting more work and more difficult work done than what the school expected of him.)

 

I finally realized that he was never going to like school, no matter how I set it up. So, I selected materials that would cover what he would need to know if he ever did go to college, also taking into account what I would want him to know if his formal education ended with what he learned in homeschool.

 

I required him to read, discuss, and write about all those materials, whether he liked them or not. At first, he complained a lot, because I had gotten into the habit of letting his likes and dislikes determine our school. Once he realized that had changed, he did what was required (at the level I would accept), and rarely complained. He even started to like some of the books, though he never did like school.

 

He has since graduated from homeschool, and is in the process of enlisting in the Navy. He is very bright, very articulate, and very knowledgeable. He is probably gifted, especially in language and people skills. However, he has no interest in corporate/business type careers, nor in that kind of success. He does not want to attend college unless or until he decides what career he wants permanently, and then only if that field requires a college degree. (He intends the Navy to be a short term career, not a life-long calling.) He is a great young man, and I am proud of him, but he is not what I thought he would be when I started homeschooling him for kindergarten.

 

So, I guess I have two suggestions for you:

1. Love her for who she is, and accept that it might not be who you expected her to be. Her path in life may be different than what you chose/would have chosen.

2. Decide what you believe is non-negotiable content for school, and require her to complete it to your satisfaction, whether she likes the method/materials or not. (Choose materials you think will appeal to her, but require her to use them even if they do not--while retaining the option to switch to other materials if they truly are not working, but not if she just would prefer to play.) Free time is for doing what she loves most. Schoolwork must be done, and done acceptably well, whether or not it overlaps with what she loves.

 

This type of conflict is worst between the ages of 13-15 (with signs of problems as early as 11yo, especially with girls). There is a remarkable amount of maturing that takes place between the ages of 16-18.

[AuntPol]

I want to post a couple links that describe MY child LOL:

 

Projects and the Intractable Child

The Relentless Learner