Pre-algebra questions

[Nakia]

Hi! I have posted a few math questions on the middle grades board recently, and a couple of people directed me here, so here I am. :)

 

My oldest dd picks up math very easily. We have always used R&S for math, and this year we used LOF Fractions as well. She will be in 6th grade next year, and I'm torn about what to do. I have R&S math 6, and it looks like she will zip through it because she already knows a lot of it. We own LOF percents and decimals. I am getting ready to buy R&S 7 from another poster here. I read about Lial's and Dolciani maths so I bought a couple of very cheap copies and they arrived today. I just posted this on the mdidle grades board:

 

 

"I ordered the 1973 and 1988 Dolciani pre-algebra books and the 6th edition of Lial Basic College Math, and all three arrived today. I ordered them because I wanted to see what pre-algebra "looks" like. And they were very cheap (less than $16 for all 3). :D

 

Anyway, I haven't had a ton of time to look through them, but I was under the impression that BCM is equivalent to pre-algebra. In looking at the table of contents and flipping through, it looks a lot different than the Dolciani pre-algebra books. I think my oldest (6th grade next year) could do a lot of the work in the BCM book now. We have always used R&S math, just fyi.

 

Am I missing something? I am quite confused.

 

Side question: If you use either Lial or Dolciani, what is your preferred edition and where can you get a teacher's instruction manual? Thanks!"

 

 

I am really confused about what course to take. I certainly don't want to push her, but otoh, I don't want to hold her back either. I very much love R&S math because I feel it has given her a very firm foundation in math, but if it's time to move on, I'm okay with that. I had planned to get R&S math 6-8 done over the next two years (which I think could be easily done) and then move into an algebra program in 8th grade. Now I'm rethinking that and wondering if we ought to follow another course (I like to have tentative plans for each subject and math is what I'm focusing on right now). If I want her to be ready for pre-algebra in 7th, should she do Lial's BCM next year for 6th? In looking at the pre-test in the front of the Lial's book, she could easily go into chapter 3, though I would probably start at the beginning to give her a review.

 

Anyway, as you can see, I am thoroughly confused. The more I type, the more confused I become, so I'm stopping. Any help would be much appreciated!!

[creekland]

To add in another thought, talented math students around here (in ps) do Pre-Alg in 6th grade and Alg 1 in 7th. I'm not certain if you feel she's ready for it, but if so, it's a consideration for you. I wouldn't push a student who isn't ready nor hold back one who is.

 

Note: Many colleges (perhaps most colleges) will not count credits done in 7th or 8th grade as high school credits, so you need to plan on still doing 4 years of math in high school if on a college track. Both of my oldest two did Alg 1 in 7th. The oldest did Geometry, Pre-Calc, Personal Finance/SAT Prep, and Calc as his 4 credits. Middle son did Alg 2, Pre-Calc, Stats, and will do Calc next year. College Alg is a course that can also be done if one doesn't care to do Calc or Stats. There are others out there as well.

[Nakia]

To add in another thought, talented math students around here (in ps) do Pre-Alg in 6th grade and Alg 1 in 7th. I'm not certain if you feel she's ready for it, but if so, it's a consideration for you. I wouldn't push a student who isn't ready nor hold back one who is.

 

Note: Many colleges (perhaps most colleges) will not count credits done in 7th or 8th grade as high school credits, so you need to plan on still doing 4 years of math in high school if on a college track. Both of my oldest two did Alg 1 in 7th. The oldest did Geometry, Pre-Calc, Personal Finance/SAT Prep, and Calc as his 4 credits. Middle son did Alg 2, Pre-Calc, Stats, and will do Calc next year. College Alg is a course that can also be done if one doesn't care to do Calc or Stats. There are others out there as well.

 

I honestly don't believe she is ready for pre-algebra quite yet. I do believe that she will be after another solid year of math and definitely for algebra by 8th. I just need to figure out 6th and 7th grades. My original plan was to continue with R&S for 6-7, hopefully getting through the 6-8 books since I think she is capable and a lot of it is review, and then beginning algebra in 8th. We also supplement with LOF. I might still do that because I think it is a solid plan, but I keep getting distracted by the other wonderful pre-algebra courses. :D

[Nakia]

bump

:D

[MamaT]

Nakia -

 

I would go with your original plan. There is something to be said for sticking with a particular program up to Algebra - that way there are no gaps. I think you have a solid plan in place and you are right - you are getting distracted.

 

Sometimes you have to quit reading about "all the stuff out there" or your head will explode!

 

P.S. Your boy says hi. He is on the couch with a fever; he is a terrible sick person. :001_smile:

[Nakia]

Nakia -

 

I would go with your original plan. There is something to be said for sticking with a particular program up to Algebra - that way there are no gaps. I think you have a solid plan in place and you are right - you are getting distracted.

 

Sometimes you have to quit reading about "all the stuff out there" or your head will explode!

 

P.S. Your boy says hi. He is on the couch with a fever; he is a terrible sick person. :001_smile:

 

Thanks Tammy. I am very easily distracted, unfortunately. :glare::tongue_smilie::001_huh:

 

I'm so sorry A is sick!! Give him my love, and tell him to get better soon so he can come to his new house. :D Every time I see one of your kiddos on facebook, I think about you all! Hope we can get together soon!

[creekland]

Nakia -

 

I would go with your original plan. There is something to be said for sticking with a particular program up to Algebra

 

:iagree:

 

Many curricula out there work just fine. If you've found one that is working for your student, stick with it. It's not the particular curriculum, it's understanding the math that counts.

[Nakia]

:iagree:

 

Many curricula out there work just fine. If you've found one that is working for your student, stick with it. It's not the particular curriculum, it's understanding the math that counts.

 

Thank you; that is very wise. The curriculum has always worked well. It's just me getting distracted and the "grass is greener" thinking. :D

[Jann in TX]

I like R&S. The Algebra students I've had who used this had a very solid foundation.

 

Since you also like the program stay with it at least one more year. It is also fine to stay with it through level 8-- just move at your dd's pace-- if she can finish level 8 in 7th then fine--just move to the next level when she completes one.

R&S 8 does not have the introductory work with variables (not sure about basic work with negative numbers-- but that is easy to supplement-- especially since you already have a collection of Pre-Algebra texts to choose from... just have her work that section(s) and call that Pre-Algebra...

 

Most middle school texts are very very similar-- this is because as kids go through puberty MOST really need to slow down as their logic area of their brain gets foggy for a period... This is also why I prefer Algebra 1 in 9th grade--(but about 10% are ready by 8th)-- the extra year or so of mental maturity really helps when working the multi-step/abstract problems in Algebra.

 

Also doing well/being accelerated in elementary math does not necessarily mean your student will be accelerated in high school maths! There is a huge difference in arithmetic (basic facts) and Algebra (processes).

[Nakia]

I like R&S. The Algebra students I've had who used this had a very solid foundation.

 

Since you also like the program stay with it at least one more year. It is also fine to stay with it through level 8-- just move at your dd's pace-- if she can finish level 8 in 7th then fine--just move to the next level when she completes one.

R&S 8 does not have the introductory work with variables (not sure about basic work with negative numbers-- but that is easy to supplement-- especially since you already have a collection of Pre-Algebra texts to choose from... just have her work that section(s) and call that Pre-Algebra...

 

Most middle school texts are very very similar-- this is because as kids go through puberty MOST really need to slow down as their logic area of their brain gets foggy for a period... This is also why I prefer Algebra 1 in 9th grade--(but about 10% are ready by 8th)-- the extra year or so of mental maturity really helps when working the multi-step/abstract problems in Algebra.

 

Also doing well/being accelerated in elementary math does not necessarily mean your student will be accelerated in high school maths! There is a huge difference in arithmetic (basic facts) and Algebra (processes).

 

Thank you, Jann! I didn't know that only about 10% of kids are ready for Algebra in 8th grade. Around here, it seems most kids are on the track to do Algebra then. Of course, that doesn't mean they are ready, lol. You bring up a long of great points. Thanks again!

[Kareni]

My husband (who tutors math and science) has also found students who have used Rod and Staff Math through the 8th grade level to be well prepared for Algebra I.

 

The only issue he has found is that the emphasis on mental math means that some students have a challenging transition to make in order to become accustomed to showing their work in Algebra.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[creekland]

Thank you, Jann! I didn't know that only about 10% of kids are ready for Algebra in 8th grade. Around here, it seems most kids are on the track to do Algebra then. Of course, that doesn't mean they are ready, lol. You bring up a long of great points. Thanks again!

 

Around here doing Alg 1 in 8th grade is the normal track as well in ps, BUT I agree with Jann that I don't consider most of them ready for it and I find the results of that being the "normal" track not all that spectacular. One doesn't have to read my "ps math woes" posts very long to see that many students can be lacking the most basic of skills.

 

That said, for the youngster who is ready for it in 8th (or earlier), slowing them down leads to boredom and holding them back unnecessarily. It really helps to just plain KNOW the student.

[Nakia]

My husband (who tutors math and science) has also found students who have used Rod and Staff Math through the 8th grade level to be well prepared for Algebra I.

 

The only issue he has found is that the emphasis on mental math means that some students have a challenging transition to make in order to become accustomed to showing their work in Algebra.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thank you for responding! R&S is definitely big on mental math, which is a great thing, but I can see where it could lead to problems. I will keep that in mind!

 

Around here doing Alg 1 in 8th grade is the normal track as well in ps, BUT I agree with Jann that I don't consider most of them ready for it and I find the results of that being the "normal" track not all that spectacular. One doesn't have to read my "ps math woes" posts very long to see that many students can be lacking the most basic of skills.

 

That said, for the youngster who is ready for it in 8th (or earlier), slowing them down leads to boredom and holding them back unnecessarily. It really helps to just plain KNOW the student.

 

 

Thanks! I really need to stop worrying about it so much and just do it. Just work with her and see where she is in a year. Then I can make a decision. I told her we are going to keep going with R&S for now, and she was happy about that. Thanks again!