Horizons Pre-Algebra After Singapore 5A?

[Crimson Wife]

DD is almost done with Singapore 4B and I have the materials for 5A. She's starting to complain about seeing the same topics again and again. I want her to complete 5A because (A) it's already paid for and (B) she hasn't done multiplication and division of fractions yet. But I'm open to switching to something else rather than continuing on with Singapore.

 

Looking at the topics in 5B-6B and the S&S for Horizons Pre-Algebra, it seems like the latter covers everything in the former plus some additional topics. I like that it's in a workbook format rather than a textbook that would require copying of problems onto a separate sheet of paper like Saxon 8/7 or Lial's Pre-Algebra.

 

I know there's also the new AOPS pre-algebra course but it's hard to know what that's going to be like given that the textbook is not yet available.

 

I'm planning to get the Life of Fred pre-algebra books regardless of which "spine" we use.

 

Thoughts?

[AK_Mom4]

I like that it's in a workbook format rather than a textbook that would require copying of problems onto a separate sheet of paper like Saxon 8/7 or Lial's Pre-Algebra.

 

Sorry, not much help on the Horizons - but you did give me a new curriculum to look at!

 

DD9 is using Saxon 8/7 this year and she DOES NOT copy the problems. There is plenty of room in the soft cover 3rd edition to write the answers directly in the book. She uses the (very wide) margins to show her work when needed. Occasionally, she will use some scratch paper in her notebook, but generally speaking there is plenty of room to use the woork as a work book.

[wapiti]

Could you continue on with Singapore and merely supplement a few extra topics from a pre-algebra course?

 

If she likes a workbook instead of Singapore, what about MM - is there anything in particular about MM at levels 5-6 that you don't care for? Too similar to Singapore, or is the S&S too off to switch at this juncture? Just picking your brain in case I missed something. DD10 will be finishing MM 5A in about three weeks and we'll be doing some of 5B over the summer, so we'll hopefully start 6 maybe mid to late fall. My thinking is all over the place on pre-algebra, but one possibility for us is Russian Math 6 by Nurk, and, while I don't own it yet, there appears to be a huge amount of overlap in topics to MM 6 (looking at the TOC alone). I'd like to do both, and then there's AoPS... If I could combine MM6 and Russian Math 6 somehow, I might feel more confident about trying AoPS pre-algebra the following year. Then again, Russian Math 6 may stand on its own as preparation for a rigorous algebra course. (LOL, I need to just buy Russian Math 6 already, but I'm waiting on the new edition). What I don't know yet is what the prerequisites would be for Russian Math 6.

[Crimson Wife]

I went ahead and ordered Horizons Pre-Algebra. I can always hang onto it if it's too challenging after she finishes Singapore 5A.

 

We've used some of the Math Mammoth "blue" worktexts and while I really like them, again the 5th & 6th grade books look like they have a LOT of review of previously covered material and not so much new stuff. Whereas Horizons Pre-Algebra appears from the scope & sequence to cover all the things in Singapore 5B-6B or MM 5A-6B in a single book plus a bunch of additional topics.

 

I've heard good things about Russian Math but the fact that it doesn't have an answer key or TM is a deal-killer.

[8filltheheart]

DD is almost done with Singapore 4B and I have the materials for 5A. She's starting to complain about seeing the same topics again and again. I want her to complete 5A because (A) it's already paid for and (B) she hasn't done multiplication and division of fractions yet. But I'm open to switching to something else rather than continuing on with Singapore.

 

Looking at the topics in 5B-6B and the S&S for Horizons Pre-Algebra, it seems like the latter covers everything in the former plus some additional topics. I like that it's in a workbook format rather than a textbook that would require copying of problems onto a separate sheet of paper like Saxon 8/7 or Lial's Pre-Algebra.

 

I know there's also the new AOPS pre-algebra course but it's hard to know what that's going to be like given that the textbook is not yet available.

 

I'm planning to get the Life of Fred pre-algebra books regardless of which "spine" we use.

 

Thoughts?

 

I have not seen the new pre-alg book, so I can't really answer directly.

 

But I wanted ask you if you have actually used any of the LOF books? I bought fractions and decimals books to use with my dd that had finished her math for the yr and I am completely unimpressed. He does not teach conceptual understanding; he teaches "do this." Multiplying by 10s, 100s, etc is basically add that number of zeros to the end. Finding equivalent fractions does not involve a discussion about how multiplying the numerator and the denominator by the same number is the same as multiplying by 1 and any number multiplied by one equals itself. He simply tells them to multiply the top and bottom numbers by the same number. :tongue_smilie:

 

The story is different. The problems are short and sweet and to the point. His conversational style is engaging. But, the actual math instruction in my not so humble and completely in the minority opinion is

awful. ;)

[Crimson Wife]

We have the LOF Fractions and Decimals books and they definitely fall into the "supplemental" category. My DD loves them and appears to have learned things from them. But I agree that they are not a substitute for a good "spine".

[nmoira]

But I wanted ask you if you have actually used any of the LOF books? I bought fractions and decimals books to use with my dd that had finished her math for the yr and I am completely unimpressed. He does not teach conceptual understanding; he teaches "do this." Multiplying by 10s, 100s, etc is basically add that number of zeros to the end. Finding equivalent fractions does not involve a discussion about how multiplying the numerator and the denominator by the same number is the same as multiplying by 1 and any number multiplied by one equals itself. He simply tells them to multiply the top and bottom numbers by the same number. :tongue_smilie:

There are a few things I'd change in these two books, but it's not correct to say there's no conceptual math in them. Not all the instruction is direct or obvious, and a fair amount is contained in the sequencing of question sets and the solutions. IIRC, there's one glaring exception to this in the fraction book, but I don't recall the specific topic off-hand. If the books are used as intended (i.e. self teaching, child takes time to puzzle their way through all the problems and reads the solutions carefully), a surprising amount of conceptual material is covered. The question sets are designed in such a way as to be part of the teaching, but there are of course some students who don't respond to this approach.

 

That aside, the remaining books in the series are a different animal altogether, especially those in the high school sequence. There may or may not be enough practice for most kids (though the assumption of the author is still that the student will make a good faith effort at every problem before looking a the solution, and, again, the sequencing and design of questions is part of the teaching process), but this can remedied with extra problems Key-To or similar series. With DD the Elder I intend to use LoF as a teaching resource, coupled with AofPS for more challenging problems and topics.

[8filltheheart]

There are a few things I'd change in these two books, but it's not correct to say there's no conceptual math in them. Not all the instruction is direct or obvious, and a fair amount is contained in the sequencing of question sets and the solutions. IIRC, there's one glaring exception to this in the fraction book, but I don't recall the specific topic off-hand. If the books are used as intended (i.e. self teaching, child takes time to puzzle their way through all the problems and reads the solutions carefully), a surprising amount of conceptual material is covered. The question sets are designed in such a way as to be part of the teaching, but there are of course some students who don't respond to this approach.

 

That aside, the remaining books in the series are a different animal altogether, especially those in the high school sequence. There may or may not be enough practice for most kids (though the assumption of the author is still that the student will make a good faith effort at every problem before looking a the solution, and, again, the sequencing and design of questions is part of the teaching process), but this can remedied with extra problems Key-To or similar series. With DD the Elder I intend to use LoF as a teaching resource, coupled with AofPS for more challenging problems and topics.

 

I know enough about teaching math to recognize conceptual teaching and direct instruction. I sat beside my dd as she worked through fractions and it has nothing to do with her responding to the approach vs. not that had me form my opinion. It is based solely on the content of the book itself. She did fine b/c she is a smart child. But she did not do fine b/c of the book. She did fine b/c it is who she is.

 

I have no idea what is in the upper books, simply the 2 that I mentioned. FWIW, my comments about how he taught multiplying by 10s, 100s, etc and finding equivalent fractions are pretty close to verbatim to what is stated within the texts.

 

That is not conceptual. Nor is the sequencing of problems conceptual. AoPS teaches discovery learning in the supreme and LOF is definitely not in that league.

 

People can love them. They obviously rave about them on this forum. I am just stating my opinion that they are not what I would (or will) use to teach my children. There are much better choices available.

[SnegurochkaL]

We have the LOF Fractions and Decimals books and they definitely fall into the "supplemental" category. My DD loves them and appears to have learned things from them. But I agree that they are not a substitute for a good "spine".

 

I agree with you. I purchased LOF "Fraction" book to use over the summer with my almost 9 years old. We want to do fun math by reading a book. For formal studies we still use SM/Russian math books.

 

When I was a child I learned a lot of math concepts by reading books similar to LOF. I had been introduced to Pythagoras theorem at age 10 before I formally studied it at age 13. It was fun and educational reading:)

[nmoira]

That is not conceptual. Nor is the sequencing of problems conceptual. AoPS teaches discovery learning in the supreme and LOF is definitely not in that league.

If AoPS is the bar, not much else will cut it. :D But then AoPS is not for everyone.

 

I'll certainly agree to disagree about the rest, and I don't have the LOF books with me to see if the simple you hand is the one I had an issue with.

[dietmom]

We are using the Life of Fred PreAlgebra--but I'm still surprised at how many of the mechanics my son is not getting--I think we need to get back to basics and let LOF be a supplement for fun--but not our main math!! So I'm all ears to a great Algebra!