break20 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I have perused some threads with regard to Latin on this board and am reading more about Latin on other boards. I have read the suggestion that when studying Latin, one can skip specifically studying English Grammar. I would like some comments on this. DD is entering 5th grade, has completed Latin Primer I and Latin Primer II and done very well. Next we will start First Form Latin. I am wondering if we should abandon our Abeka Language study or keep it up. Thanks! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I have heard and considered this recommendation. I decided against it. For my DD, grammar was challenging, and so was Latin. To have to learn both together would have been too much for her. Plus her knowledge of grammar helped her immensely with her other language studies, and it was nice to have the common frames of reference in English for that. It's easier to start grammar young than to start Latin young, and so English grammar studies can prime the pump for making Latin easier later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I know that some people, and some curriculum companies, suggest that you don't need to study English grammar if you study Latin. I disagree with this. At one point in time, I spoke three languages. It is not, imo, sufficient to say that knowing the grammar of an inflected language transmits an understanding of English grammar. I will say that learning another language helped to clarify the English grammar I already knew. But I don't think that I could have extrapolated English grammar from an inflected language's grammar. English has too many idiosyncracies, imo. And learning about English entails usage and mechanics as well as grammar. Just my $0.02. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 If she will be writing primarily in English, she needs to study English grammar. Other languages are good reinforcement of some grammar rules, but I do not believe they are a substitute. I only know the Latin in the teacher's manual ;), and I can tell there are differences. I don't know if you consider punctuation grammar or not, but you would not find that in your Latin grammar, for instance. Verb tense is another big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 A bad idea IMO. One should be able to analytically approach one's own language, regardless of the fact whether one studies other languages or no. As other languages are studied, other grammars are studied as well - of course, on the lower levels, certain concepts transfer easily, but ultimately, one is to be able to dissect every language one does for a thorough understanding, including one's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ange Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 My 2 olders had extensive english grammar by grade 4 (more than most high schoolers). They went to a private classical school. They started Latin in grade 4. If they had not had the strong English grammar, they would not have been able to handle Latin as well as they have. So it has been our experience that English grammar is a necessary foundation for Latin. Now my oldest age 12 is getting ready to start high school Latin. My 10 year old is doing Latin at a 7th/8th grade level. (and just to clarify, I don't teach Latin or know Latin -- so I would not call myself a Latin or language expert, this has just been our experience.) HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I think it's reasonable to skip English grammar and use Latin in order to learn about language in general. But, I would make sure that whatever English writing instruction that she had included a focus in mechanics and sentence structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
break20 Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 Thank you for the responses. I think I should clarify. She has already completed two years of Latin study and two years of grammar study using Abeka. I guess I am wondering if we should continue with both since I am definitely continuing Latin. I just haven't gotten far enough in Latin to know how much more grammar study we will have. We have certainly done plenty of English grammar! Thanks! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanMom Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I do not use a separate grammar program once my kids start Latin. However, I use CW which has some grammar instruction (diagramming, parts of speech, mechanics, etc.) in the writing lessons. And I kind of breathe grammar. I am always correcting my kids when they use incorrect grammar. ("He has more than me!" "No, he has more than I. And he does not have more than you.":)) I make them diagram in English (CW) and in Latin. We play games with English like Mad Libs to reinforce parts of speech. And in their writing lessons, we go over the things we are learning in Latin and how they relate to English. So, I think the answer depends on you. How much do you naturally cover and will you use Latin for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerMom Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I'll buck the trend and say it depends on your child. If dc struggles with grammar, prolly need to do both. But if she's like my dd, I don't plan to revisit grammar until middle school at the earliest. [she's 2nd grade now but has completed thru 4th grade LA.] We do Madlibs for parts of speech review and discuss grammar as part of her latin. I just don't think grammar is something we need to overtly study for 12 years. We learn grammar by reading good books and writing complete thoughts. Studying latin is IMO a solid proxy and will put her in good stead to refocus on english grammar when she is older. In my own education, when I started high school the teachers did a 1 week review on all things grammar and writing, gave us a test, and said from then on we were expected to know it and they weren't wasting another day on grammar (it was a private catholic school). In college I was a science major getting 4.0 in english classes, so I have to say I did ok. THat experience undoubtably influences my answer on the importance of studying grammar. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbucks1 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 DO BOTH!! While Latin does review some English grammar (parts of speech, for instance), there is a great deal of grammar in the English language that needs to be studied (I am thinking of more complex sentence structures, clauses, etc). My ds son is studying Wheelock's and doing English grammar with R & S 8. There is very LITTLE overlap at this point with Latin grammar and English grammar. However, I do think English grammar helps with the study of Latin :D. Blessings, Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 My 2 olders had extensive english grammar by grade 4 (more than most high schoolers). They went to a private classical school. They started Latin in grade 4. If they had not had the strong English grammar, they would not have been able to handle Latin as well as they have. So it has been our experience that English grammar is a necessary foundation for Latin. Now my oldest age 12 is getting ready to start high school Latin. My 10 year old is doing Latin at a 7th/8th grade level. (and just to clarify, I don't teach Latin or know Latin -- so I would not call myself a Latin or language expert, this has just been our experience.) HTH. :iagree: The part I bolded has been our experience as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ange Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I'll add that my kids Latin tutor recommended they continue English grammar...even after all they have already had and all the Latin they have had. Hope you find what works best for your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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