daysaregifts Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I'm really needing to see it all together-- aspects of each, compared to others!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Not that I'm aware of, but if you want to do a search on the board for the different comparison threads and then make up a chart for all to see, go for it! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daysaregifts Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Oh, I was afraid of a suggestion like that, Donna! :) I have read all the threads until I'm blue in the face (a few months ago) and now am back to loving the looks of ALL of these programs!! Maybe I should clarify. Next year I'll have a 3rd grade daughter, and a very busy 4 year old boy. We very much love using living books and not as much busy, or disconnected, work. The main allure of a "packaged" curriculum for me is the inclusion of a guide that helps pull together and explain more of the history/Bible/science background. If it weren't for that, I'd be great with just the books, based on some sort of schedule. (like AO or SCM?) So, what I was hoping for a comparison on, like in chart form, was for programs that are CM-ish, using living books as a key component. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchbark Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 A chart like that is a fabulous idea. Let me know when you have it done. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulhomeschooler Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 :iagree: A chart like that is a fabulous idea. Let me know when you have it done. :D Hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaOfMany Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I seriously need a chart like that! Wonder who out there is willing to do it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I could give it a try. I'm working several overnights this week and have some time while the baby sleeps. What kinds of info do you want to see? Do you want it in chart form? Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwickimom Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I would LOVE this, but I just decided on HOD :glare: hmmmmmmmm maybe I shouldnt look at said chart if it gets made :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaOfMany Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Have no idea what the OP wanted out of a chart heck I have no idea what I would want out of one but if you could do it that is awesome! I just know its so confusing to see what program has what elements and uses what and how much reading and so on and so forth *sigh* I could give it a try. I'm working several overnights this week and have some time while the baby sleeps. What kinds of info do you want to see? Do you want it in chart form? Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daysaregifts Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Oh Heather, you saint! :) I wasn't meaning to hint around! I just thought maybe there was something like it. Still not expecting anyone to do it, but these are things I'm thinking of that would be helpful: (just dreaming-- if nothing else it's helping me to focus on these aspects as I look at all of them again!) - History Rotation (3 or 4 year, what is the progression, etc.) - What they use for spelling, grammar, etc. - Main differences in guides (that would be hard to discern very quickly- maybe someone knows!) - Whether they incorporate Bible into the history or science, as far as the teacher's guide and activities go - whether many activities are suggested, or if it's mainly read, narrate, dictate, etc. - whether science is done through living books, or is a certain program recommended - how long they say each day should take (I know it would vary by grade, but even comparing one grade would be awesome!) - how many read-alouds are suggested for the year...how many independent books...is there a supplemental "book basket" type thing, like MFW? - wonder how each company SAYS they are different, or what they say their strong points are? I'll keep thinking! I know you guys have great thoughts on what we could compare. Thanks for tossing the idea around with me! I literally have a huge file of different threads from this board that compare 2 or 3 programs at a time, of the ones I mentioned. (Like HOD, MFW, SL, WP, SCM, AO, etc.) I can't stand the thought of digging through it! I am just a spreadsheet kind of girl. :) It helps me so much in decision making! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAmom Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Great idea. Now if you could add TOG to that chart.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Great idea. Now if you could add TOG to that chart.... :D :iagree:since TOG can be applied in a very CMish way in the early years from what I've read from someone doing it that way. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
home'scoolmom Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Not gonna make that chart :D, but I have used or own the manuals for all the currics you listed so I'll take a stab at some of your questions. I think you can rule out some of these based on what you want: " The main allure of a "packaged" curriculum for me is the inclusion of a guide that helps pull together and explain more of the history/Bible/science background." Ok, if you want this I think you can rule out SL and SCM pretty easily. Neither one will do this for you. Well I take that back. SCM's new history guides do intgrate Bible history and "other" history. Nothing with science though. SL doesn't explain diddly and there is very little interaction with the books. Everything is separated out there. MFW and HOD on the other hand, both do this extensively. - History Rotation (3 or 4 year, what is the progression, etc.) MFW uses the traditional four year rotation plus one year of cultures and geography to begin, after two years of Bible history and one year of American history. HOD's rotation is different. Bible/general world history to begin, two years of American history, one more year of world history, then begin the four year history cycle. SCM does four year rotation throughout. SL's cycle is all over the place and as near as I can tell there is not much rhyme or reason to it, well I guess primarily in the upper grades that is my complaint. The lower grades starts with world history for two years, then american history two years, then back to world history two years. - What they use for spelling, grammar, etc. MFW uses Primary and Intermediate Language Lessons and spelling Power. Delays hard core grammar instruction until 7th grade. HOD uses R&S English from 2nd grade on. SL has an integrated approach Ruth Beechick flavor integrated with the readers (this is my fave feature of SL, really like the LA. ) Some find it scattered though. SCM - can't remember right now. - Main differences in guides (that would be hard to discern very quickly- maybe someone knows!) These are manifold of course, but one of the main differences in guides between HOD and MFW is that HOD has much more detail, directions, and scripting in the guides. This is good or bad depending on what you like. Bible is more integrated into each subject. Also, the guides in HOD build on each other skillwise as you go, and get more independent as they go up. The others don't have this characteristic. Also HOD is the only one with a daily two page layout. The others have a weekly grid. - Whether they incorporate Bible into the history or science, as far as the teacher's guide and activities go HOD does this mega, MFW as well, but to a bit lesser extent. SL not at all, SCm does this with history. - whether many activities are suggested, or if it's mainly read, narrate, dictate, etc. HOD and MFW both do this very much. I think HOD has a bit more discussion interaction with the books than MFW - one reason why i chose it. SCM has a very few activities in their history guides. SL has very little, although I see they have added some activities to their lower guides. - whether science is done through living books, or is a certain program recommended HOD science is heavy on living books and biographies, with some textbooks as well. SCM recommends a program. SL puts together some living books for the lower cores, recommends apologia for the upper grades. MFW I think uses some living books too. - how long they say each day should take (I know it would vary by grade, but even comparing one grade would be awesome!) - how many read-alouds are suggested for the year...how many independent books...is there a supplemental "book basket" type thing, like MFW? Can't answer this one for you right quick! - wonder how each company SAYS they are different, or what they say their strong points are? A main selling point (and deal breaker for many) for HOD and MFW is that HOD emphasizes meeting each child where they are at with their own individual program, and MFW emphasizes combining your children and learning together (grades 2-8). There are other differences and strong points as well but this is a major difference right off the bat that either attracts or repels. There are also significant differences in books between the two. Book Basket in MFW vs. scheduled books in HOD (although you can swap out read alouds in HOD for different ones). I don't know if any of this helps because it isn't in a chart format! Sorry I know those are helpful to see everything at a glance. So I may have just been totally unhelpful.:D But at the very least I think you could probably rule out SCM and SL based on what you said you wanted in general with a curriculum. JMHO. MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 The only problem with doing a comparison chart is that the reviewer can't possibly be unbiased more toward one than another. That's just human nature. We all have preferences. For example, HOD and MFW are very similar in many ways, yet different. One of the differences is the layout of the manual. The daily boxes in HOD appeal to some, and the weekly grid in MFW appeal to others. While someone can state that as a fact, there are ways to word it that clearly show the reviewer is leaning more toward one being "better" than the other. But better in whose opinion? It's so subjective! Even Cathy Duffy isn't *completely* unbiased. I've read a lot of her reviews, and you can tell which ones she's actually spent time with vs. just reading through it and drawing a conclusion based on "looking" at it. You can also tell which method she prefers if you read enough of her reviews. Plus, one mom can't possibly use ALL those programs over a long period of time. So while she might know how one program works at the 2nd grade level, that doesn't mean she knows how it builds upon itself and works over the *long term*. kwim? That's why you get so many different opinions even in one thread comparing just TWO programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Okay, here's a perfect example of what I mean, from the pp's post: She said: "These are manifold of course, but one of the main differences in guides between HOD and MFW is that HOD has much more detail, directions, and scripting in the guides. This is good or bad depending on what you like. Bible is more integrated into each subject. Also, the guides in HOD build on each other skillwise as you go, and get more independent as they go up. The others don't have this characteristic." Now see, this isn't necessarily true. MFW *does* do those things; they just do it differently than HOD. But if one doesn't understand how MFW works, then they would naturally assume MFW doesn't include (or imply) enough direction. Why? Because MFW isn't as scripted as HOD. The poster does mention the fact that HOD is scripted, but it's mentioned in the same context as saying that HOD provides more "direction" than MFW. So the poster is really looking for scripted notes to give her direction, and while MFW doesn't give you a word-for-word script like HOD, MFW *does* give you direction in the teacher notes throughout the week, as well as several pages of direction at the front of the TM. So as the poster is looking for something specific to give her direction, she's assuming the direction isn't present in the other program because she doesn't see what she's looking for.... a word-for-word script. See what I mean? (And btw, Bible is *very* integrated into all the subjects in MFW. But again, Marie does it a different way than HOD.) Same with the skill-building..... "Also HOD is the only one with a daily two page layout. The others have a weekly grid." Now this is a factual statement which is true without bias. But the first part of the paragraph has opinion and preference woven into it. (Sorry to pick on you, MP. My intent is merely to give an example of opinion & preference vs. unbiased statements. It's really hard NOT to include opinion & preference in a review of something, so it's definitely not personal. ;) ) But this is why a comparison chart done by a single person wouldn't work or be completely accurate. The person preparing the comparison chart would have to be open to input from those who've used the other programs long enough to know how they *really* work long term.... without getting offended. :tongue_smilie: Now if long-term MFW users could provide the input for the MFW column, and long-term HOD users could provide the input for the HOD column, and so forth, without saying "My program does this and your program doesn't", then it could work. :D IOW, the person preparing the comparison chart would have to be serving merely as the typist putting all the input down on paper, with information given her by people actually USING said program. See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Donna, I think it could be done. It just may require a panel of us to do repeated reviews in order to take out one another's bias and ensure a purely factual end product to which people can filter through their own preferences. :D I'm not sure any of us want to put *that* much effort in though -- but I believe it would be possible. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Donna, I think it could be done. It just may require a panel of us to do repeated reviews in order to take out one another's bias and ensure a purely factual end product to which people can filter through their own preferences. :D I'm not sure any of us want to put *that* much effort in though -- but I believe it would be possible. :lol: LOL, you're probably right. But can it be done without offending anyone? :tongue_smilie: If MFW user could stick to what MFW does and NOT what "XYZ" doesn't... and HOD user could stick to what HOD does and NOT what "XYZ" doesn't... and SL user could stick to what SL does and NOT what "XYZ" doesn't... and TOG user could stick to what TOG does and NOT what "XYZ" doesn't.... so forth and so on. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I completely agree with Donna A. I wasn't going to touch this thread for that very reason. I think the idea to have a MFW user say........ and a HOD user say......... is a valid one but only someone who has used all of these would really be able to compare and I don't think that person exists and if they do, they would still have a favorite. OP, I recommend you first decide what you want. You had some questions in your previous post. Do you want science from living books or a curric? Do you want to go CMish or WTMish or other with LA? Do you want to eventually study the Great Books? Do you want 4 year history cycle? Do you want to combine kids or have them on an individual path? Which of these things is MOST important? (perfect doesn't exist, unfortunately) Then come ask which program gives you what you are looking for. I think that will be the most helpful to you. But, I ADORE the IDEA of a chart and will be all over it if one of you wonderful ladies puts one together.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I got a start on it last night but the poor little guy I am currently working with had a rough night so I didn't get a lot done. I don't want to offend anyone either so I am trying to make it as benign as possible in terms of information. Hopefully I won't end up offending anyone. If I do, it won't be the first time LOL. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommatomany Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daysaregifts Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Y'all are just amazing, obviously VERY intelligent mommas. :) I'm not even sure what to ask now, as I think you've already gone way higher than my brain has gone! I appreciate ALLLLLLL of the help so far. I certainly don't want to begin a disagreement, so just know that ANY help I receive on this, "biased" or not, is appreciated. Everyone can weed through info and see if they agree, but any kind of a head-start is so appreciated. I could be incredibly selfish and say that I'm mainly interested in what can be done in 3rd grade, and how they compare, without tooooo much emphasis on what's coming up. Obviously, that's important, as far as history rotation and science content....well, I know it's important for even more than that! I just need to dig into the catalogs AGAIN and then really, really pray that I would know the direction this little girl needs to go. IF- IF- IF our friend decides to help with "the" chart, of course we could all be supportive and then if someone has used the program and can clarify an aspect, that person could kindly clear up anything that may not be absolutely correct. I'm not at all worried about that. Any help is appreciated!! I don't know if you guys are Sally fans (Clarkson), but I am, as I just love her broad, eternal perspective. I'm waiting with baited breath for her new book to come out in May. (It's actually just a new version of it- Educating the Wholehearted Child.) Though I know curriculum is a vehicle that gets us where we want to go, I know she stresses--as we all know-- that there isn't a perfect curriculum, and finding what we want to "go" with won't ensure all our goals (educationally, plus all other areas that we daily are instilling in our kiddso) are met. It helps me not to stress QUITE as much. A plan is important, but if our plans change, that is A-OK!! And thank goodness we have so many choices....right?! (I think I mean that!! So many good choices can be so overwhelming!!) I'd love to compare TOG too- that one just scares me from all the talk of the big momma manual! :) Is it mainly Classical? And I have a friend that loves Living Books Curriculum. I'm just rambling- thanks for listening. I don't expect anyone to do anything, but it's lovely being able to talk about all this with you guys. I'd love to know any other comparison points that would help me compare. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
home'scoolmom Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 "(Sorry to pick on you, MP. My intent is merely to give an example of opinion & preference vs. unbiased statements. It's really hard NOT to include opinion & preference in a review of something, so it's definitely not personal. ;) )" No problem. :D You are absolutely correct that there is no such thing as an unbiased review, and since we currently use and like HOD I am biased there. However there is nothing but warm fuzzies from me toward MFW, as I really, really like MFW and almost went with them instead of HOD. I am probably going with MFW for high school this next year. I was trying to emphasize that each of the differences between HOD and MFW boil down to personal preference only, not any inherent superiority of one over the other. Daily spread vs. weekly grid? Combine vs. not combined? Book basket vs. scheduled read-alouds? Scripted directions vs. more flexible guidance? All just a matter of what you want. It's like choosing between a brownie and a cookie. :tongue_smilie: Both delicious but some people prefer one over the other. :001_smile: And very true that while I have MFW manuals, I haven't used MFW so take my comments with a grain of salt. In any case, what I wanted to emphasize was that for the OP, I think based on what she said she wanted from a curriculum, MFW and HOD would provide what she was looking for much more than either SL or SCM. I have extensive experience with SL and SCM so just wanted to put that out there. :D MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 It's like choosing between a brownie and a cookie. :tongue_smilie: Both delicious but some people prefer one over the other. :001_smile: Oh seriously, but if that cookie is chocolate chip and fresh out of the oven, then can I taste from both and go back and forth between the two? :lol: OTOH, if that fresh-out-of-the-oven chocolate chip cookie has nuts in it, well then, decision made. Give me the brownie, please. :D Sometimes, choosing curriculum works the same way. You end up boiling it down to ONE key aspect of the program that makes the decision for you. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchbark Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 So has anyone made a chart yet? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.