Integrating WTM recs for biographies and literature with SOTW

[ELaurie]

I am using SOTW with my dc, 8 and almost 6. We are finishing SOTW 2 this year.

 

I used SOTW 1 with them last year; since they were 7 and 4 at the time, I focused on picture books, age appropriate short stories, and projects. I read a couple of longer books to ds 7, including Black Ships Before Troy (which he loved; although in retrospect I wonder , "What was I thinking?" :rolleyes: ) and Tales of Sinbad (which he also loved). In general, I would say I treated every chapter equally; I read SOTW, they listened to the audio book, I checked out books from the library, ds 7 did map work and narrations or answered review questions.

 

This year, using SOTW 2, I'm attempting to focus on some of the key events and historical figures in greater depth. I have read more biographies, and more literature. I have done fewer projects with them.

 

I plan to do this next year as well.

 

Which brings me to my question: to what degree do you try to incorporate the list of "great men and women to cover" and literature selections in WTM with SOTW?

 

Obviously, most of the great men and women are included anyway, but to what degree do you use this list to guide you in decisions about what to cover in greater depth?

 

How many of the literature selections do you try to incorporate, and do you do so in a systematic way, or simply read them in the order suggested in WTM?

 

I'm curious to know how others approach this; I may also post a poll about how many of the literature selctions to cover, and which are "must reads."

 

Thank you!

[Carol in Cal.]

That was, if there was a readily availabe, good, age-appropriate bio of someone I would include it, and if not, I wouldn't.

 

That was also the year that I started buying or borrowing books from the AG, and they are GOOD! But, realistically, I would not have hunted everywhere or even included a bio of Ethelred the Unready if there wasn't such a good one from Peace Hill Press available. And I think that there were probably people I would have liked to have covered in more depth. Certainly I felt that SOTW2's coverage of the Reformation and Renaissance were less than I would have wanted. I hunted up a good book on the Reformation and used that extensively; but I couldn't find exactly what I wanted for the art of the Renaissance so I moved on without covering that in much detail.

 

Some really, really good bios are the ones by Miriam Greenblatt. They are lavishly illustrated, and include a biography, life and times info, and some original writing from that setting. After I discovered her books, I actually went back to SOTW1 characters and bought some books about them for review.

 

BTW, I read Black Ships Before Troy to my DD when she was 7 or so, and over and over again ever since then. If our family is any guide, you won't be sorry you started that so young! If it's good enough for SWB, why I guess it's good enough for us!

[Rhondabee]

Really, seriously.

 

And, I did go through and see which ones had bio's available at the library this year (year 3). And, I put check-marks besides their names, and that's about it......I do check the books listed in the AG against our library's database for just about about every chapter.

 

I think there's just so much more out there now - with SOTW and the AG especially - than there was when WTM first came out. So, I imagine if I were using *just* Usborne, that list would be put to better use.

 

For lit, I've been using straight WTM - (but you'll see in my post to Susan I'm a bit perplexed about how to straddle a 5th grader doing Modern Lit next year). If the library had the grammar-stage book, I'd use theirs. But, we had to buy A LOT anyway. And, I bought all the logic-stage books. (That way I could make notes in them.)

 

hth,

Rhonda

[ELaurie]

I've wondered about the degree to which he recs in the AG supercede the earlier list of great men and women to cover.

 

In general, I have covered the great men and women for whom there is a book recommended in teh AG; I wnat incorporate more of the literature recommendations from WTM for SOTW 3 and 4.

[ELaurie]

PS It took me over a year to notice the list too ;)

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I have used the AG list exclusively. I never went back to the WTM lists after I got the AG. I just went to the library website, and looked up the books in the AG. If I could get them from the library, I did. If I couldn't, I skipped them. There are so many good books listed, that we wouldn't have been able to do all of them anyway.

 

FWIW, the WTM book list was created long before the SOTW AG, and they cover the same people. If you're using the AG, you don't need to worry about the WTM lists.

[Rhondabee]

but, (if you don't mind me just spilling out all my thoughts here since I don't blog and it's almost 3am :))

 

I tell ya, I almost wish I had the guts to just leave SOTW and the AG behind. (And, I'm going to really de-emphasize them ALOT next year - tho, I can't bear to think of parting with them completely!) And the reason is - my boys are basically library-illiterate.

 

I have given us every excuse - the baby, being new to hs'ing, the toddler, their seeming inability to understand the definitions of "quiet" and "sit still". And I have relied so heavily on book lists and catalogs and SOTW that the kids haven't gone to the library and looked up info on ANYTHING this year. I even pick out their "free-reading" books because when they face the library they just die inside - they literally turn pale! It's just so much easier for me to go online and order what we'll need in advance and run in and pick it up.

 

Then last week, while I was waiting to pick up my holds, I saw a mother of 3 little boys and a baby (sleeping baby - mine never slept!) walking calmly through the library, looking through the Juvenile non-fiction books. She came out with books on warships or something, and her boys sat down at a table and started reading and had their papers and pencils ready while she went through the Adult non-fiction books. And, I was just crushed to see such a successful reality of what I had envisioned when I first read WTM, but I've never been able to make that happen.

 

I know SOTW has given my family a great gift, and I am so very thankful for the journey we've had the last 2 1/2 years. But I think the original WTM vision was - I don't know - but it wasn't "how do I condense 42 chapters into 36 weeks?". It was more like "take this sparse list of names and events and go help your dc discover for themselves; and - hey - if it's not there, just go on to the next thing."

 

And, *I* have learned how to teach myself, but I haven't taught that to my kids. So, when you recommended the ATTA, I was thinking, "Oh. wow, this is great!" ~ looking ahead to highschool/middleschool history. But, then the reality of "It's still *me* doing the 'doing' of school" hit me like a ton of bricks; and I wonder will I ever break free of this need to plan every detail.

 

And, I'm sorry Laurie. I hope you don't feel I've jumped all over you! I have been stewing about this for awhile. And, I have been really thinking lately that the first edition actually "supercedes" the new "SOTW-way" not in teaching history, per se, but in other, less "test-able" ways.

 

And I tho't about just deleting this, so plesase feel free to ignore!

Rhonda

[Carol in Cal.]

I have been really greatful to SOTW and WTM for book suggestions, because our city library system is so poor that browsing is really not useful. Not even in our main library! And, frankly, I was such an avid reader as a kid that DD could just read my fiction recommendations from my own childhood for the rest of time and probably not run out of books.

 

But it has really bothered me that DD has no idea how to browse for a book in a library, and no real inclination to do so.

 

And just recently I discovered that I can get a library card for the next city over from us, and they have a GREAT library! And DD has no idea how to use it. And she doesn't really want to, because she is almost 12 and I have always done it for her. I have no credibility on this subject, because she knows that I will just get all excited about some book on her behalf and give it to her anyway.

 

What to do, what to do...

[ELaurie]

Your post is really helpful, and I have a lot of thoughts about it. I don't have time to write all of them now - but I will do so later.

 

The essence what I am thinking is that WTM provides a guide for parents to inspire children who love to learn, and equip them with the tools to do so. It has taken me a couple of years to begin to figure out that WTM methods for teaching history have less to do with history than with inspiring a love of history and equipping children to pursue their interests. It's easy, especially in the grammar years, I think, to focus on filling their minds with facts; to some degree this is important because it provides them with touchstones to inspire further learning, but I think the methods have as much or more to do with the process of learning than the content. Once they master the process, they can learn anything :)

 

Doing narrations helps them consolidate a body of information by distilling what's most important, and putting their thoughts about that it into words. Outlining and short papers refine these skills further, equipping them to pursue learning at higher levels.

 

It's easy to get caught up in the details, and miss the process piece - at least for me. It's easier to check off a list of library books I've read with them on my planner page than to ask - "Have I kindled a desire to learn more about this person, place or event? Have I equipped them to learn more about this on their own?"

 

When I focus on these kinds of gaols, I feel less pressured by my "to do" list, and as a result, I put less pressure on them.

 

SOTW is a guide; the AG is a guide; WTM is a guide. Each provide tools to pursue the above; it's easy to miss the forest for the trees.

 

Thank you for helping me clarify this further!

[Rhondabee]

I was really afraid I would get burned if I posted.

 

You wrote:

 

The essence what I am thinking is that WTM provides a guide for parents to inspire children who love to learn, and equip them with the tools to do so. It has taken me a couple of years to begin to figure out that WTM methods for teaching history have less to do with history than with inspiring a love of history and equipping children to pursue their interests. It's easy, especially in the grammar years, I think, to focus on filling their minds with facts; to some degree this is important because it provides them with touchstones to inspire further learning, but I think the methods have as much or more to do with the process of learning than the content. Once they master the process, they can learn anything

 

:iagree:

 

Though I am still very much in the process of "figuring (that) out"!!! It is a hard vision to keep alive, and I thank you for sharing this journey with me.

 

Rhonda

[Rhondabee]

but the books are scattered throughout about 20 different "branches".

 

Still, I'm mulling over how to have a "library sciences" time on Fridays (normally our light day). I thought about starting by having them make a map of our local library - noting what type of books/cd's/music/magazines are where.

 

Then, my next objective would be to get them to use the reference materials to look up history related subjects (atlases, encyclopedias, primary source books in the reference sections). My still-in-progress plan is to read the whole SOTW chapter on Friday morning, having them "take notes" of key names, places, events; discuss what they'd liked to know more about; and then use their lists of names to do their own "research" in the library that day.

 

And, hopefully, then we'll grow to checking out all the different kind of books Jessie lists in her Prologue in WTM (Mine is on p.6). I'm debating if this means we'll no longer have time for Read-Alouds, and I'm not sure how willing I am to give that up. Guess we'll cross that bridge if we ever get to it! ;)

 

If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them, too!

 

Thanks for sharing! It is so encouraging to remember all you other moms out there putting forth the same effort when I'm having one my desperately-needing-chocolate days!!!!

 

Have a great weekend~

Rhonda

[abreakfromlife]

as someone who is only 1 year into this, this

The essence what I am thinking is that WTM provides a guide for parents to inspire children who love to learn, and equip them with the tools to do so. It has taken me a couple of years to begin to figure out that WTM methods for teaching history have less to do with history than with inspiring a love of history and equipping children to pursue their interests. It's easy, especially in the grammar years, I think, to focus on filling their minds with facts; to some degree this is important because it provides them with touchstones to inspire further learning, but I think the methods have as much or more to do with the process of learning than the content. Once they master the process, they can learn anything :)

 

Doing narrations helps them consolidate a body of information by distilling what's most important, and putting their thoughts about that it into words. Outlining and short papers refine these skills further, equipping them to pursue learning at higher levels.

 

It's easy to get caught up in the details, and miss the process piece - at least for me. It's easier to check off a list of library books I've read with them on my planner page than to ask - "Have I kindled a desire to learn more about this person, place or event? Have I equipped them to learn more about this on their own?"

was so very, very helpful. What a great way to sum up WTM!

 

Sally

[ELaurie]

Thank you Rhonda. Your post helped me clarify some of my own goals for my dc as well :cheers2:

[Mesa]

Rhonda, Thank you for "spilling your guts". I'm going to head out to the library tomorrow with my older 2 kiddos. They enjoy going and I always think of reasons why just staying home would be easier.

[Narnian]

Certainly I felt that SOTW2's coverage of the Reformation and Renaissance were less than I would have wanted. I hunted up a good book on the Reformation and used that extensively; but I couldn't find exactly what I wanted for the art of the Renaissance so I moved on without covering that in much detail.

 

Some really, really good bios are the ones by Miriam Greenblatt. They are lavishly illustrated, and include a biography, life and times info, and some original writing from that setting. After I discovered her books, I actually went back to SOTW1 characters and bought some books about them for review.

 

Hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask what book you used for the Reformation; Do you happen to know the title off hand? We're doing SOTW2 this year (my son is 6, going into second grade), and after having read through SOTW2 for myself, I realized there wasn't a whole lot about the Reformation.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's from Core Knowlege.

 

I looked at the recommended one by Fiona MacDonald, but found it pretty biased...a very Catholic POV. I did not find that the Core Knowlege book was inclined one way or another. I like the Paul Maier picture book "Martin Luther" for the Lutheran POV, and I did use the FM book for the Catholic one, but wanted more of a spine and one that related the Reformation more to the Renaissance--which the CK book was and did.

[Chez J]

I am using SOTW chapter for chapter without much supplementation for most of it. BUT, I am stopping at the part about the Am. revolution and spending many weeks reading about the people and events around this. Since I'm American, I personally felt this was very important to me. It's part of our folklore and culture.

 

We also will spend a little time on the French Acadiens and the Louisiana purchase because that is my ancestry. I have a good book that goes through the British, French and Spanish "ownership."

 

I also have chosen to focus on Lewis and Clark and the Alamo.

 

I am depending on SOTW for the French revolution and Napolean, etc.

 

However, in additon to SOTW for history, I am creating an elective of random subjects. I am using A History of US Book 3 only for American History during the same period as SOTW covers it. I also am combining art (if I can find a source) and music appreciation of key figures from the time (and from Vol 2) and geography of the regions covered in SOTW Vol. 3. (Although I just discovered Beautiful Feet's Geography Thru Lit, so I may revise my plan. LOL!)

 

So, I'm hitting things from two courses: history and the hodge-podge elective. LOL

 

I'm typing it up for my blog over the next week or so. If you want to see it, email me at lesley7244@yahoo.com.

 

Lesley

[Kristiana]

This is an interesting thread about library illiteracy. I feel it here too, although my oldest is still just 7.

 

I have a love/hate relationship with our library. It's one of the best city libraries in the country, has everything you could dream of in a library, browsing is SO much fun, but it's just too big. My kids love it, but see it almost as more of a play place than a place for books just because there are so many different attractions there. It's next to impossible to keep an eye on all 3 of them at the same time which freaks me out anyway, then yesterday a woman tried to walk out of the library with two girls, not her own, ages 8 and 5 after their 16yo sister left them in the children's section and went up 3 floors to the young adult section. That just gives me so much more to worry about.

 

Meanwhile, I check out all the books for school myself, either placing them on hold online, or going by myself (which is great, I can find 15 books on the shelves before I even begin to get what I originally came for.) I've noticed if we go to one of the smaller branches, my kids are more interested in the books, but finding what you need on the shelf is next to impossible. I much prefer the larger main library. But my children really have no idea what's there and if I help one of them learn to browse, we always seem to lose the other two.

 

 

Maybe asking a librarian to orient your children to the library and what's there and how to find stuff would be a good idea. I know our library has "Get to know the library" nights for homeschoolers--parents and children--about twice a year and they focus on how to do research for kids.

[Rhondabee]

Oh, wow! I'm going to ask our librarians about such an orientation night - that is a *great* idea! Thanks for mentioning it.

 

=)

Rhonda

[Colleen in NS]

Which brings me to my question: to what degree do you try to incorporate the list of "great men and women to cover" and literature selections in WTM with SOTW?

 

Obviously, most of the great men and women are included anyway, but to what degree do you use this list to guide you in decisions about what to cover in greater depth?

 

How many of the literature selections do you try to incorporate, and do you do so in a systematic way, or simply read them in the order suggested in WTM?

 

I'm curious to know how others approach this; I may also post a poll about how many of the literature selctions to cover, and which are "must reads."

 

Thank you!

 

The way I've done it over the past four years, is to look ahead in SOTW and go to my library's website to reserve children's books on the topics, events, and people mentioned in an upcoming chapter.

 

Then, I work my way through the "great men and women to cover" list, and in years 3 and 4, the "historical topics/events to cover." I started off trying to find the specific recommended books at the end of the WTM history chapter, but half the time I couldn't find them - it was easier to search the library by topic or person instead (and sometimes those rec. books would pop up).

 

For lit., I did the same thing - worked my way through the list of authors, and just reserved a children's edition of whatever was available in the library.

 

So, I'd have piles of books on hold at the library every couple of weeks, and I'd skim through them for appropriateness, and hand them over to the kids. I started off with trying to read them all aloud, and gave up after about a year. I could not keep up, but the kids could devour them whenever they had free time. I have no idea how many lit. books they have read, or how many bios. and topics they have covered - I just know they have read most of what I reserved at the library. When it comes to narrations, I usually skim the book really quickly so that I can help them write the narration. But we do usually have one lit. book being read aloud, so I am familiar with SOME of them! :)

 

I've thought about trying to coordinate the history/lit. reading with SOTW, but it's too much work for me.

 

Oh, and we don't do history projects. Not formal ones anyway. I find that the kids end up drawing pictures or getting out the dress up clothes and acting out all sorts of historical/literature scenes on their own. So I chalk that up to "projects."

 

This coming year, however, Mom is going to have to find a way to keep up with ds lit. reading! :)

 

EDIT: huh, I typed this response before reading the others (have to leave in a minute), and now Rhonda's spilling of guts is looking all interesting....I'll be back for another read later!!!!

[Narnian]

It's from Core Knowlege.

 

I looked at the recommended one by Fiona MacDonald, but found it pretty biased...a very Catholic POV. I did not find that the Core Knowlege book was inclined one way or another. I like the Paul Maier picture book "Martin Luther" for the Lutheran POV, and I did use the FM book for the Catholic one, but wanted more of a spine and one that related the Reformation more to the Renaissance--which the CK book was and did.

 

 

I just checked our library system and they have a copy--placing a hold so that I can check it out. Yay. :)

[Colleen in NS]

but, (if you don't mind me just spilling out all my thoughts here since I don't blog and it's almost 3am :))

 

I tell ya, I almost wish I had the guts to just leave SOTW and the AG behind. (And, I'm going to really de-emphasize them ALOT next year - tho, I can't bear to think of parting with them completely!) And the reason is - my boys are basically library-illiterate.

 

I have wondered about how to make my kids "library-literate" as well. I remember reading in WTM that you could start taking your 2nd grader to the library, and help him learn to pick out books. But at the time my oldest was in 2nd, I just couldn't fathom doing that. It seemed like too much work. But now I want to do that more.

 

It's no problem showing my kids around the non-fiction areas and the reference areas. What I wonder about is fiction books. We use the WTM lit. list, so I would just show my kids how to look for those online (multi-branch lib. system here, too - easier to reserve and pick up). But as for free choice fiction reading, I'm stuck. I have other lists to choose from, I could show them how to look those up online, too. But the going in and browsing is where I get stuck.

 

How do you help your kids learn to browse and pick out good fiction books? Or do you let them pick what they want? Or do you let them pick stuff that might be "less" than what you'd want them to read? When I've tried this in the past, I sometimes feel as though I'm vetoing a lot of their choices, when I skim through them really quickly. For things like, content that is too scary, too grotesque, too mature or inappropriate, etc.. So how do you help them find good books on their own?? I have not figured out how to teach this skill yet.

[Rhondabee]

Well, I cancelled all our lesson plans, and took my kids to the library for our last official week of school, and they were genuinely excited. They took their lists (Science, History, Art, Music, Fiction, Biog, ??) and searched on their own and found things. But, they weren't interested *at all* in continuing that through the summer. Ugh!!!!!!! Boys!!!!!!

 

My older ds is spending quite a bit of time as a Junior Counselor at a day camp, so I haven't pushed the issue - I've got too many major house repairs to do, anyway.

 

But, seeing them excited about participating in their education was encouraging (altho' probably they were more excited about no more lessons rather than just about the library - LOL!). Obviously, I don't know how to teach it. I think I will just have to make a commitment to doing it, and hope and pray that they "catch" it.

 

=)

Rhonda