AP courses vs. College courses...

[ValRN]

O.K. I got to thinking here...On a transcript, how do AP courses (and resulting score on AP tests) compare to actual college courses? Does one look better than the other on a transcript? If AP looks better, then why not take an AP course instead of a college course? They have the same rigor, right? They both show that the student is able to handle college-level work, right? Hmmm….just wondering which route is better.

[AngieW in Texas]

It really all depends.

 

Do you know if your local cc has a good or bad reputation? Would the colleges that your dc is applying to know if the cc has a good or bad reputation?

 

My oldest will have 50 college credit hours earned at the cc through dual credit and NO AP tests or SAT-II tests at all. She still got a full tuition scholarship at the school of her choice and even got a stipend towards housing. The school that she's going to is not a highly selective school and is known for being generous with merit aid. It was definitely merit-based as we had no exchanged any financial aid information at all and our EFC according to FAFSA4caster was higher than the tuition plus room&board at this school.

 

My middle dd will have at least one AP (taking AP Physics B next month) and has already done the SAT-II for US History. She will also be taking a lot of dual credit. I expect her entire senior year (except for calculus which will be another AP course) to be taken at the cc. She will probably go to the same school that the oldest will be attending next year. It is one of only two secular schools in our state that offers a neuroscience degree.

[ValRN]

Wow, Angie. It sounds like your dc are on the fast track to college graduation. Congratulations on the full tuition scholarship!

 

Our local cc is regionally accredited and has a transfer agreement with many 4-year universities/colleges. It was stated that as long as the student has a GPA = or > 3.0, it is a seamless transfer. My son's music teacher sits on the admissions board of a 4 year college in the area, and he said that our cc is one of the best in the nation. I'm not sure if he was exaggerating or not (because he tends to do so sometimes), but even if it isn't "the best in the nation", it seems to have a good reputation.

 

At this point, I don't have an interest in my son taking AP or CLEP exams in order to get college credit and obtain a degree earlier than if he hadn't... I was just wondering which would make his transcript look better or if they give the same impression.

 

If we decide to go the cc route, does it make a difference if the class is audited instead of taken for credit?

[regentrude]

If we decide to go the cc route, does it make a difference if the class is audited instead of taken for credit?

 

If a student audits a class, usually he does not have to take exams. So, having audited a class says nothing about the outcome - whether the student learned anything at all or was just sitting there. Taking the class and earning a grade tells something about his performance.

You may be able to make a deal with the instructor that, even if the class is only audited, he evaluates your student's performance and lets the student turn in assignments- but typically, auditing exempts the student from having to do any assignments or tests.

Of course you can have a student audit a class and evaluate yourself; then it's a mommy grade like all the others and not an outside validation.

[ValRN]

by the academic advisor that even with auditing, the student would have to do all the work everyone else was doing, except that a final grade would not be issued.

 

Since I am not looking to make a college transcript for my ds, but only want him to experience college-level courses, this was not really a concern. Then I started to think of his high school transcript. I could take the grades that he earned in the cc course (using the same grading/weighted system that the instructor uses) and issue ds a grade for the high school transcript. ?????? Would I be jeopardizing the integrity of the hs transcript by doing that? Would it be dishonest?

 

Or is it best to just have him take the course for credit?

[regentrude]

by the academic advisor that even with auditing, the student would have to do all the work everyone else was doing, except that a final grade would not be issued.

 

OK, so it apparently depends on the school. At the universities I am familiar with, auditing means just that: attending and listening to the lecture, but nothing else. The instructor does not grade any of the student's work.

You might want to check with the instructor for the specific course you have in mind, because often professors have discretion as to the Hearer policies for their course.

 

I could take the grades that he earned in the cc course (using the same grading/weighted system that the instructor uses) and issue ds a grade for the high school transcript. ?????? Would I be jeopardizing the integrity of the hs transcript by doing that? Would it be dishonest?

 

 

No , it would not be dishonest -you can give your student high school grades for any kind of work YOU think fulfills your course requirement. If, instead of reading the textbook at home, he is auditing a class, that is fine. However, I would make this clear on the transcript that the class was audited to learn the material, but that he did not get the grade from his college professor.

 

Or is it best to just have him take the course for credit?

 

That depends on your student and the course.

[distancia]

In our state, the comm colleges have an automatic transfer agreement with the 4-year universities.

 

Also, in our state the DE (dual enrollment) classes are paid for by the state; two per semester. Meaning, my high school student child can take 2 college classes, free, per semester (but we have to buy the books).

 

My homeschooled dd has taken DE courses (free) here at the local comm coll, as well as some online courses through out-of-state universities which are quite affordable (University of Idaho Independent Study Program and Clovis Community College, to be exact). She is taking an Intermediate Spanish independent study course through U I because there was no Intermediate Spanish course offered at our local comm coll. The course at U I uses the identical text and online program that is utilized here at our 4-year state universities. As a matter of fact, all of dd's out-of-state classes are transferrable, because they are through regionally accredited institutions.

 

My dd could have opted for AP classes, as those, also, are free, from our state-run Florida Virtual School. But the AP classes--both those from FLVS and those her friends take in public high school--have way too many projects, and that is a big turn-off for my dd; she hates projects, considers them time-wasters. She prefers reading, absorbing information, processing, reasoning, and writing papers, then repeating the cycle all over again.

 

The other negative is that many of dd's friends who have taken AP classes have failed the end-of-year exam. Although they did receive high-school credit, they did not earn any college credit. A years' work and no college credit? Though let me state that many of these students should not have been in AP classes in the first place, and they wouldn't have done very well in DE classes, either.

 

For other students, though, AP is great. My niece enjoyed AP Lit classes because she loves reading novels (she is now a senior in college and a Lit major) and her AP was her thing. Then again, she went to a school where there was no DE option.

 

Last thing to consider: AP exams are pricey, I think $90 (?) per exam.

Edited April 3, 2011 by distancia

[Gwen in VA]

CC or AP -- The answer depends on the colleges your child is looking at. The college where my two oldest go will not give credit for any community colleges classes. Period. It will, however, give credit for 5's on most AP exams. So my kids were better off going the AP route.

 

It also depends on your kid. The AP exam is a high-stakes once-a-year test. That is fine for kids who tend to test well, but kids who do not tend to test well may want to avoid the AP route.

 

It also depends on your location and transportation options. Our CC was 40 minutes away, so just getting to the CC was a hassle. That helped our decision to go the AP route!

 

In my limited experience, the CC classes are less challenging than the AP classes. I know that depends on the CC class and the AP teacher, so I am not generalizing but merely commenting on our experience.

[beachnut]

Our homeschool group recently had a meeting featuring a panel of homeschooled kids now in college. They had varying experience with both AP classes and DE. Some of them said the AP classes were harder than the college classes. Some said they initially took a DE course online, as a gently introduction into the college experience while still in high school. One of them said something quite interesting -- when you take AP, you get college credit as long as you have a qualifying score on the AP exam, but your class grade doesn't count toward your college GPA. But, when you take a college course thru DE (and these courses are usually the easier/entry-level courses), your class grade would count toward both your high school GPA & your college GPA. Not sure if the same applies in your state, but I had never considered that aspect of DE. Food for thought.

[creekland]

I agree with what everyone has said so far and will add one more consideration. My boys have gotten (or will get in my middle son's case) excellent Letters of Recommendation from their profs in cc classes. Since we self study AP, no letter can come from an outside course.

 

My oldest just did one cc class (it transferred since it was outside his major). My middle son has already done two and will take the Stats AP test in May. Later in the summer or early fall he'll likely do two SAT II tests, but we're not 100% sure on that. Whether or not any of the first two will give him credit will depend on which college he eventually goes to. I'm hopeful that the mix will help his applications (our main goal).

 

I have no idea what youngest will do yet.

[Miss Marple]

. My boys have gotten (or will get in my middle son's case) excellent Letters of Recommendation from their profs in cc classes.

 

This has been one of the most important aspects of taking concurrent courses in our family. If not for these courses, my boys would not have had academic letters of recommendation (other than another homeschool mom) necessary for the scholarships they have earned.

[angela in ohio]

Our homeschool group recently had a meeting featuring a panel of homeschooled kids now in college. They had varying experience with both AP classes and DE. Some of them said the AP classes were harder than the college classes. Some said they initially took a DE course online, as a gently introduction into the college experience while still in high school. One of them said something quite interesting -- when you take AP, you get college credit as long as you have a qualifying score on the AP exam, but your class grade doesn't count toward your college GPA. But, when you take a college course thru DE (and these courses are usually the easier/entry-level courses), your class grade would count toward both your high school GPA & your college GPA. Not sure if the same applies in your state, but I had never considered that aspect of DE. Food for thought.

 

When I transferred my credits (have done it twice now in two states,) the grades from those classes did not come with the credits. They had no impact on the GPA at my new school. I'm sure it depends on the university, though.

[Gwen in VA]

Even if the dual-enrollment grades do not affect your college GPA, there is one other thing to be considered --

 

When (and if) your child applies to grad school / med school / law school, etc. the school will ask to see transcripts from ALL post-secondary institutions that your child has taken classes at.

 

The grad school (or whatever) WILL see the dual-enrollment grades that your child earned in his high school years.

 

FYI.

[ValRN]

Thank you for all the replies. After reading them all and taking everything into consideration, I feel that dual enrollment is probably the best option for my ds.