Higher order thinking and specific curriculum

[Once]

I am confused and need someone to answer some questions or send me to a thread here that helps me mesh higher order thinking with specific curriculum.

 

 

I am looking at Bloom's Taxonomy (which may or may not be the best place to start) and trying to find out how that actually relates to a curriculum.

 

How do you know if your curriculum is demanding higher order thinking from your student? (this is a dumb question.....but how do *you* find out.)

 

Are there curriculum that are well know to require this from the student?

 

Is there an age when you need to take this into consideration? (I read TWTM years ago on loan from a friend but I only took in the grammar stage and I am now looking at a logic age student. So, yes, I have ordered new edition of TWTM.)

 

Does depth = higher order thinking?

 

Can you give examples from your own homeschooling that help me understand this in action?

 

Links? Threads? Opinions? Discussion?

 

 

Thanks!

[Tracy]

There is a series of workbooks called Critical Thinking: Reading, Thinking and Reasoning Skills, which is based on Bloom's Taxonomy.

[Once]

Thank you. Have you used this? Is there a place where I can find an inside view of it? Looks like a great start for reading.

 

 

After dinner I thought of a way to describe what I am trying to understand.

 

Bloom's Taxonomy has several levels......(I vaguely remember a thread a few years ag about Bloom's being out of date and another list was posted.)

 

knowledge

understand

apply

analyze

evaluate

create

 

So for example......how does a curriculum expect a student to use them?

 

I was thinking of Math. The student learns the math facts. Then they learn to analyze word problems and apply an algorithm to it. Maybe they look at another person's math solution and can evaluate it. Or they can create a solution to a novel problem that has not been solved before.

 

Math lends itself to higher order thinking.

 

Do other subjects not lend themselves to these types of learning? Lets use History. You can learn the history facts and time line. You can narrate it out and "understand" it. But can you apply history. I guess you can analyze it.....evaluate it. I wouldn't say you could create it unless that was another way to narrate it creatively.

 

I am just wondering. How do you decide that your curriculum is helping your child to develop the skills of higher order thinking? What does it look like if it is and are there subjects that you do not strive for this in?

 

 

I think this may be me looking at the transition between grammar and logic stage. You needs in curriculum must change at this point and I am not sure how the new level should look.

 

Thank you for the link!

[angela in ohio]

I read a lot about Bloom's taxonomy, because I think it meshes nicely with the concepts of classical education. When I ran out of things to read/ listen to about classical ed, I started in on Bloom's, etc., for more ideas.

 

Honestly, the higher levels of Bloom's can't really come from a curriculum by itself. They come from teaching, interaction, and discussion, imho.

 

Yes, it can apply to all subjects. No, you don't create history, but you create new theories and connections, which you can then teach and explain to someone else.

[Once]

I read a lot about Bloom's taxonomy, because I think it meshes nicely with the concepts of classical education. When I ran out of things to read/ listen to about classical ed, I started in on Bloom's, etc., for more ideas.

 

Honestly, the higher levels of Bloom's can't really come from a curriculum by itself. They come from teaching, interaction, and discussion, imho.

 

Yes, it can apply to all subjects. No, you don't create history, but you create new theories and connections, which you can then teach and explain to someone else.

 

I completely agree with you about it meshing well. The little I know about Classical ed makes me think that it easily leads right into higher order thinking.

 

What books would you suggest someone read when learning the basics? (I am ordering the TWTM since my friend moved years ago.)

 

Can you explain how a novice teacher learns how to "teach, interact and discuss" with their students to move in that direction? Truthfully, I consider myself successful if I get the list done for the day. I have kids under 6th grade and my daughter is just learning to self manage her day. I would like to know how to improve in this area since some days even oral narrations do not get done well.

 

 

I do not think I could do TOG because it is sooo intimidating to me but I noticed right away when I looked at it that it goes for the more complex learning skills. As I was consdering all of our curriculum, FLL was heads above some of our other subjects for the same reasons. Some curriculum just seem to naturally adapt the expectations. In your opinion, are there some that are better at this than others?

[Rosie_0801]

But can you apply history. I guess you can analyze it.....evaluate it. I wouldn't say you could create it unless that was another way to narrate it creatively.

 

Of course you can, with some kinds of history! I'm thinking of art, music, handicrafts and cooking. And if you don't think they matter, there's few things more important than what we eat and what what we wear. What about alternate history novels? They are creating history. Or they are if they've done their research.

 

Rosie

Edited March 25, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[Nan in Mass]

When you get your copy of TWTM, you will see that there are questions to ask that help you discuss literature. I can't remember whether there are ones for science and history as well, but I know that in the past, the hive has come up with lists. If I have time later, I'll try to find the thread where we made one for primary souces and the one for history. You can always start your own, also. Then whenever you read something, you go through the list with your child. It works better if you have read whatever it is also, but it works even if you haven't (sigh - I am proof of this); you just have to get your child to tell you what he read first (narration). With lists like this, you aren't confined to textbook questions. These are general questions to run down for anything that help you to think about the connections and causes and effects. TWTM questions are nice because they are at the right level, approximately.

 

Other things to keep in mind:

 

I have found that assignments that start with a blank piece of paper tend to require more from my children than assignments that áre more worksheet-like. There are good worksheets out there, good question sets that require thinking, but there are many that just require spitting back the information instead of doing something with it.

 

I have also noticed that the more adult the work, the more likely it is to involve doing research, writing a hypothesis and trying to prove it, or taking a stance about something and try to persuade people you are right. If you keep those end goals in mind, then you can ask yourself, "Is this assignment leading to being able to do that?"

 

Every once in awhile the hive has a thread in which people whose children have graduated from college come back and post about encouraging thinking. They always say one thing: talk with your children. They say that discussing things was the most important thing they did. They talk about discussing what everyone is learning and what is happening in the family and what is happening in the world. They talk about encouraging their children to defend their (the children's) points of view and question their parents' points of view.

 

-Nan

[elegantlion]

One book I've just started is The Theory of Knowledge, which is designed for the IB program. You can see a sample here, although it doesn't show all the chapters in TOC. I just finished the chapter on perception, which I thought was excellent.

 

Not sure if this is what you might be looking for, but I plan to read for myself. I'll have my ds go through the course in 9th.

Edited March 25, 2011 by elegantlion

[Tracy]

Thank you. Have you used this? Is there a place where I can find an inside view of it? Looks like a great start for reading.

 

 

After dinner I thought of a way to describe what I am trying to understand.

 

Bloom's Taxonomy has several levels......(I vaguely remember a thread a few years ag about Bloom's being out of date and another list was posted.)

 

knowledge

understand

apply

analyze

evaluate

create

 

So for example......how does a curriculum expect a student to use them?

 

I was thinking of Math. The student learns the math facts. Then they learn to analyze word problems and apply an algorithm to it. Maybe they look at another person's math solution and can evaluate it. Or they can create a solution to a novel problem that has not been solved before.

 

Math lends itself to higher order thinking.

 

Do other subjects not lend themselves to these types of learning? Lets use History. You can learn the history facts and time line. You can narrate it out and "understand" it. But can you apply history. I guess you can analyze it.....evaluate it. I wouldn't say you could create it unless that was another way to narrate it creatively.

 

I am just wondering. How do you decide that your curriculum is helping your child to develop the skills of higher order thinking? What does it look like if it is and are there subjects that you do not strive for this in?

 

 

I think this may be me looking at the transition between grammar and logic stage. You needs in curriculum must change at this point and I am not sure how the new level should look.

 

Thank you for the link!

 

Yes, we did use this program for K. I really liked how it very gently introduced concepts like outlining and summarizing. And even though dd turned out not to like workbooks, she did like this one a lot. But I dropped it because it felt like we were doing this extra (albeit fun) work and not really getting much out of it. I felt like these different levels should show up in her regular work rather than making it a separate study.

 

Incidentally, I first learned about Bloom's Taxonomy in an 8th grade class. (But at that time, we learned them a bit differently: knowledge, comprehension, application, analysis, synthesis and evaluation.) The way my teacher applied this was by leading Socratic discussions and by having us keep journals. The journals were very eye-opening for me. Up until that time, I had always been a good student and was not accustomed to getting anything but an "A." However, my journal entries often received a "B" or even a "C" accompanied by all sorts of questions, especially the dreaded "Why?" It took months before I could really answer those questions, and more months before I could anticipate them. But this represented a dramatic change in my school experience. After that class, I was no longer the automoton student waiting for the teacher to tell me what I was supposed to know for the test. I became the one that made the teachers work for their pay, asking question after question, often leading to the answer, "If you can find that out, you will win the Nobel prize."

 

Actually, I would say that Bloom's Taxonomy is more easily applied to subjects other than math. In subjects like history and literature, this is going to show up in written works such as comparison/contrast papers, persuasion papers, etc. By high school level, students should be able to analyze and evaluate classical literary works or the role of famous historical figures or decisions made by governments. They should be able to apply their observations from historical events to events happening today. For example, compare and contrast the American Revolutionary War with what is happening in Libya. Such a paper or discussion could (and should) include every level of Bloom's taxonomy.

 

I think that you are right that this is deeply relevant to the transition from grammar to logic stage. And I also think that you really need to have the right curriculum. I think that any curriculum that uses the Socratic method is a good start. I also think that TWTM methods prepares students well for higher level thinking by giving them the skills that they need.

[Once]

I felt like these different levels should show up in her regular work rather than making it a separate study.

 

 

 

I think that you are right that this is deeply relevant to the transition from grammar to logic stage. And I also think that you really need to have the right curriculum. I think that any curriculum that uses the Socratic method is a good start. I also think that TWTM methods prepares students well for higher level thinking by giving them the skills that they need.

 

 

If it is most beneficial within subjects as opposed to a separate subect.....

 

How did you go about choosing curriculum for your children so that the subject has this in place for you already?

 

Also, do curriculum that are set up like this also have answers for me as a teacher? How would I know if my child is following the better path in answering?

 

I would prefer to include it simply because it seems overwhelming to me to add another subject in but how do I know the choice I make helps lead to this? Not all questions would lead to these thinking skills....would they?

 

Thanks so much for your help!

[Once]

One book I've just started is The Theory of Knowledge, which is designed for the IB program. You can see a sample here, although it doesn't show all the chapters in TOC. I just finished the chapter on perception, which I thought was excellent.

 

Not sure if this is what you might be looking for, but I plan to read for myself. I'll have my ds go through the course in 9th.

 

 

This looks excellent but it would be best for my self learning. My kids would not understand its importance yet.

 

Thank you....I must brush up on my skills as well and this will help.

 

 

Nan and Angela......I will look for the threads with questions and see if I can brush up on how to facilitate that interaction. Right now, my kids and I are just following the schedule and do not interact as much as I think is needed for this kind of learning. We have a great chatty relationship but I do not think it involves opinion and current events and ideas as much as it could.

 

I am curious, is this better started in Grammar stage or is it not helpful until Logic? We spent most of our time trying to cover basics and I missed that there was more to the grammar stage. I am waiting for the current edition of TWTM from Amazon.....everyone is sold out.....even PHP.

 

Thanks to all of you for your guidance!!!!

Edited March 28, 2011 by Once

[angela in ohio]

I am curious, is this better started in Grammar stage or is it not helpful until Logic? We spent most of our time trying to cover basics and I missed that there was more to the grammar stage. I am waiting for the current edition of TWTM from Amazon.....everyone is sold out.....even PHP.

 

Thanks to all of you for your guidance!!!!

 

I think discussion serves a different purpose before they are old enough to grasp logic skills. I use discussion to model grammar skills, especially observation. And instead of working together to construct patterns and systems, as we do when I am helping them learn logic skills, I just tell them what I observe.

 

I don't start teaching those logic skills until they are a bit older, in the year or two before I know they will be starting to question and make connections. It was hard wtih my first dd. I thought she was making so many connections and was so logical, and then she actually did hit 12 or 13 yo, and her mind came alive, and you could see the pinball game going on behind her eyes, with information bouncing around and lights and bells going off every day. I quit rushing "higher order skills" with my younger dc. I spent more time working on what they could master and didn't rush them.

 

I do teach them about Bloom's Taxonomy, and I teach them about other theories of learning. They can all tell you about metacognition and describe the different processes they have learned and can choose from to learn different materials. As they start to enter the transition to logical capabilities, we talk all the time about how to "manage their brains." :)

Edited March 28, 2011 by angela in ohio

[Tracy]

If it is most beneficial within subjects as opposed to a separate subect.....

 

How did you go about choosing curriculum for your children so that the subject has this in place for you already?

 

Also, do curriculum that are set up like this also have answers for me as a teacher? How would I know if my child is following the better path in answering?

 

I would prefer to include it simply because it seems overwhelming to me to add another subject in but how do I know the choice I make helps lead to this? Not all questions would lead to these thinking skills....would they?

 

Thanks so much for your help!

 

Well, most curricula are not specifically designed around Bloom's taxonomy. But I particularly like programs that utilize the Socratic method, because the Socratic method is designed to help students use critical thinking skills and logic. (I was first introduced formally to this method when I went to law school, as that is the primary method used to teach law.) I wouldn't say that the Socratic method is necessarily synonymous with Bloom's taxonomy, but they do complement each other. Bloom's taxonomy outlines the skills that you want a student to have, and the Socratic method provides a methodology to get there.

 

And while it is nice to have a program that helps you to get there, I don't completely rely on the program. I am constantly looking for teaching opportunities. Those opportunities to teach lie in the student's individual interests and what is relevant in his life. I use the same questions over and over but in different contexts. Why? Why not? How are __ and __ the same? How are they different? What is good/bad about the book (or the character)? What symbols do you see in the book? What do you think will happen next?

 

 

I am curious, is this better started in Grammar stage or is it not helpful until Logic?

 

First of all, it depends on what you mean by "this." We started out talking about Bloom's taxonomy, which has a certain order to it based on the order in which children develop these skills. In that case, a Grammar students ability to participate in the higher levels is certainly going to be limited.

 

However, we also got to talking about using the Socratic method, and you will find differing ideas on this. The TOG folks believe that it is not helpful until the Logic stage. Dr. Nebel, the author of BFSU, believes that it is useful for any age. I tend to agree with Dr. Nebel that you can begin to introduce young children to higher order thinking. But there is going to be a lot of leading at that point. I think that it is very helpful for them to get accustomed to hearing the questions that require higher order thinking. For example, whenever you watch a TV show or movie, you can use "evaluation" skills by asking whether the child liked the movie or not. A grammar stage child is going to talk about liking a character or plot line. But you can begin to introduce other means for evaluation, such as music, choreography, make-up, set design, etc.

 

I am not sure if I gave you a very good answer. I haven't necessarily sought out curricula based on whether they utilize Bloom's taxonomy or the Socratic method, but I find that I am very drawn to those that do. So I guess that you have to really have internalized these concepts yourself such that you can identify them in programs that are considering.