Why TOG and not SOTW in LG?

[Heidi]

A while back I was on the brink of ordering TOG and was talked out of it. I plan on doing SOTW and maybe start TOG the next rotation.

 

But I still see a lot of moms using TOG for the LG (even with no older students) and supplementing with SOTW.

 

If sotw is more fun for younger kids, why the draw toward TOG? From what I've heard TOG doesn't offer as much to the LG as SOTW. So... what am I missing here? What does TOG have that SOTW doesn't in LG/UG?

 

I'll still probably just stick with SOTW, but I am curious.

[Guest]

From what I've heard TOG doesn't offer as much to the LG as SOTW.

 

That definitely has not been my experience. We are using TOG at the LG level with one student and combining with SOTW. SOTW is on the TOG alternate resource list at the UG level. I am using it now (at the LG level) because I like the approach. I like that it is a spine that carries over through our entire year and I like that it is read like a story, which works well for my son. It speaks to the child. I have not added SOTW because I do not like the TOG book selections. We love the book selections, they are at my son's reading level and he still likes picture books added to the mix. The combo works great for us. Also, while there are activities in TOG that are for the whole family (all age groups) there are many for the LG level also so it can very easily be used for the LG group alone, which is another reason why we use it ;). I will be adding my second child for his K year when the time comes.

 

You are the best at judging what works for you. In our house TOG and SOTW are a great combo :).

[SnMomof7]

:lurk5:

Can't resist listening into a LG TOG thread.....

[Heidi]

I have not added SOTW because I do not like the TOG book selections. We love the book selections, they are at my son's reading level and he still likes picture books added to the mix. The combo works great for us. Also, while there are activities in TOG that are for the whole family (all age groups) there are many for the LG level also so it can very easily be used for the LG group alone, which is another reason why we use it ;).

 

You don't like the TOG book selections or the SOTW book selections? Or rather, I'm confused which books selections you like better.

Do you also prefer the activities that come with TOG LG better than SOTW activities? Why?

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[ncmomo3]

I am a devoted TOG user, but I used SOTW with mine when younger and if I had it to do over again, I would still use SOTW for the younger years. SOTW is wonderfully engaging with age appropriate mapping and fun hands-on projects; they truly enjoyed it. That said, if I had children with large gaps between their ages, I may have chosen differently.

[Tracy]

From what I've heard TOG doesn't offer as much to the LG as SOTW. So... what am I missing here? What does TOG have that SOTW doesn't in LG/UG?

 

We have both and use SOTW to supplement TOG. While I wish that TOG G levels were patterned more like the upper levels with Socratic discussions, I do think that TOG offers more for the G levels than SOTW. The book selections are more diverse and interesting. (It stands to reason since SOTW has only one author.) However, it is a very nice supplement to TOG, because it contains certain stories that you can't find anywhere else for that level.

 

I did not get the SOTW AG, because I read that it has a lot of coloring pages, which my dd wouldn't like. I also read the TOG mapping is a lot better than SOTW.

[jewellsmommy]

A while back I was on the brink of ordering TOG and was talked out of it. I plan on doing SOTW and maybe start TOG the next rotation.

 

But I still see a lot of moms using TOG for the LG (even with no older students) and supplementing with SOTW.

 

If sotw is more fun for younger kids, why the draw toward TOG? From what I've heard TOG doesn't offer as much to the LG as SOTW. So... what am I missing here? What does TOG have that SOTW doesn't in LG/UG?

 

I'll still probably just stick with SOTW, but I am curious.

 

 

 

I chose TOG with SOTW used as scheduled in the alternate section. Some reasons include:

 

 

I like the TOG scheduled books a lot (but I noticed that some of the TOG book selections overlap with the SOTW AG suggestions anyway).

 

I like the unit "sectioning" approach that I get with TOG. It is a linear history but also focuses on a geographical region at a time. This allowed us to fully immerse ourselves in China for a week, in India for a week, In Egypt for several, etc. If we were doing straight SOTW we would be jumping around a bit more.

 

We really enjoy their lapbooks and the various scheduled hands-on projects.

 

I like having bible history and church history already integrated in my study for me.

 

There is no doubt that, for me :D, TOG is a superior approach to History in the upper levels. So, I want to get used to it now. I want to be on automatic pilot by the time I come back around in the upper years.

[M&M]

You don't like the TOG book selections or the SOTW book selections? Or rather, I'm confused which books selections you like better.

Do you also prefer the activities that come with TOG LG better than SOTW activities? Why?

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

I think she is saying that she used SOTW along with TOG books not because she does not like TOG selections, but because she likes the narrative of SOTW along with the picture books that TOG offers. If I am correct in that assessment, :iagree:. We also use both.

 

When you look at SOTW AG, you have book selections for history and literature, activities, and maps...much like TOG. The approach is not that different. The reason I use TOG is that it gives me more and prepares me better to teach upper levels.

[Guest]

You don't like the TOG book selections or the SOTW book selections? Or rather, I'm confused which books selections you like better.

Do you also prefer the activities that come with TOG LG better than SOTW activities? Why?

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

Sorry I confused you :). I hope I can make it more clear. When I decided that SL was not exactly meeting my expectations I chose TOG after extensive research and after realizing that it was exactly what I was looking for for my tactile/ visual son and also the way I wanted to approach history with him. However, I had my heart set on SOTW since we started homeschooling when my son was 4. I could have waited until TOG schedules it at the UG level but I decided to get the book now and introduce both. I used them as separate programs at first and it got too be too much. Not that I had any complaints but it was taking up too much time during our school day and we were doing about 7 hours of school a day and sometimes even carrying over activities into the weekend. My bad :tongue_smilie:! I tried to do too much. I sat and reevaluated and decided to combine SOTW into TOG instead and use one or two activities from either or both that I think we will enjoy the most. We were on a break anyway while covering some local requirements and this gave me time to change my schedule and lesson plan and approach.

 

What I meant with my comment was that my reason for selecting to add SOTW was not because we did not like the TOG books because we do, and we use both. I added SOTW because it is different from the books that TOG uses at the LG level and I am just enjoying the best of both worlds ;). However, I do not use the SOTW book list. We have a timeline which I set up to use with the SOTW and we do the map activities for both. The only book I have added from the SOTW recommendations is the Usborne IL World History Encyclopedia. I also add other resources like the Usborne IL Encyclopedia of the Ancient World, The Rose Book of Bible Charts, Maps & Time Lines etc. I use those as added resources where I see the need/ desire. With the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History however, since it is assigned in SOTW and we like the Usborne IL books, we read through the assigned text and also use the Internet links. So for we I love combining both, our way ;).

 

I hope this is a little clearer but feel free to ask if it isn't. I was trying to avoid rambling before but sadly it seems it is a gift (curse :lol:?).

[Guest]

However, it is a very nice supplement to TOG, because it contains certain stories that you can't find anywhere else for that level.

 

:iagree:

[Heidi]

Oh, ok. Thanks for clarifying. I've enjoyed reading your comments on TOG on various threads :).

[M&M]

tracymirko,

 

I think I you have said this before about Socratic discussions for younger children. I am curious, why would you want to do this?

 

I have found that Socratic discussion needs some maturity in order to have an informed opinion about why you have a certain view of a subject or question. That is why this sort of discussion often comes when a child is studying logic and rhetoric. My two oldest children are still trying to have an opinion that they can defend, I couldn't see my younger children doing this.

Edited March 21, 2011 by M&M

[Guest]

I think she is saying that she used SOTW along with TOG books not because she does not like TOG selections, but because she likes the narrative of SOTW along with the picture books that TOG offers. If I am correct in that assessment, :iagree:. We also use both.

 

When you look at SOTW AG, you have book selections for history and literature, activities, and maps...much like TOG. The approach is not that different. The reason I use TOG is that it gives me more and prepares me better to teach upper levels.

 

:iagree: Exactly what I meant! Thank you. Now why didn't I see your post before I typed all that out :lol:!

[M&M]

I think we were posting at the same time!

[Guest]

Oh, ok. Thanks for clarifying. I've enjoyed reading your comments on TOG on various threads :).

 

And I am always rambling in every one of them too :lol:.

[Guest]

I think we were posting at the same time!

 

Yep, you're right! Two minutes apart :).

[Tracy]

There is no doubt that, for me :D, TOG is a superior approach to History in the upper levels. So, I want to get used to it now. I want to be on automatic pilot by the time I come back around in the upper years.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I think I you have said this before about Socratic discussions for younger children. I am curious, why would you want to do this?

 

The Socratic method simply means that the teacher is not supplying all of the answers but rather facilitates the child finding his/her own answer. Anybody of almost any age can be taught using this method. (Obviously, they need to be able to speak/communicate.) I use this method all of the time when I teach my children. My science program (BFSU) is designed for K-2 students and very effectively uses the Socratic method.

 

I know that TOG does not agree with this position, but I am truly baffled by it. I find that the Socratic method is truly a superior method in teaching my grammar level dd. She will remember and retain information a whole lot better if she was the one who figured it out.

[Guest]

I think I you have said this before about Socratic discussions for younger children. I am curious, why would you want to do this?

 

I have found that Socratic discussion needs some maturity in order to have an informed opinion about why you have a certain view of a subject or question. That is why this sort of discussion often comes when a child is studying logic and rhetoric. My two oldest children are still trying to have an opinion that they can defend, I couldn't see my younger children doing this.

 

Well, both Plato and Aristotle joined Socrates as his student after grade school age (they were over or just over 18). I don't think it was meant for a younger age group (especially at the G level) for maturity reasons so I definitely :iagree:with you. That said, being Greek (Hellenic :)) I would love to find a way of introducing the approach at a younger age. The only thing I have done in order to do that has been to always ask my son the question "Well, what do you think?" and then help him reason as to why something is logical or does not make sense, at his level. I think for the G level this is sufficient :).

[Tracy]

That said, being Greek (Hellenic :)) I would love to find a way of introducing the approach at a younger age.

 

Maybe we need to start a new thread. :001_smile:

[Guest]

The Socratic method simply means that the teacher is not supplying all of the answers but rather facilitates the child finding his/her own answer. Anybody of almost any age can be taught using this method. (Obviously, they need to be able to speak/communicate.) I use this method all of the time when I teach my children. My science program (BFSU) is designed for K-2 students and very effectively uses the Socratic method.

 

I know that TOG does not agree with this position, but I am truly baffled by it. I find that the Socratic method is truly a superior method in teaching my grammar level dd. She will remember and retain information a whole lot better if she was the one who figured it out.

 

We were posting at the same time :lol:. :iagree:with you. I just want to add that what we are doing is bringing it to the G level. It is a whole different ballgame beyond that ;).

[Guest]

Maybe we need to start a new thread. :001_smile:

 

Sorry, I had to dash off before . I am game with your new thread idea (not sure if you started it already) just realize we may be the only two that end up posting in it :lol:.

[Tracy]

I started it here.

[Guest]

I started it here.

 

OK, just posted but I am dashing off again. We have not had dinner yet and I am being pulled, literally, off of the computer :tongue_smilie:. Hopefully more when the boys are in bed. I will be up shooting stuff off to our teacher (updates) so I may pop back in again if I have the time :).