Katiebug_1976 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I am so torn so I thought maybe hearing what y'all thought might clear things up a bit for me. Hopefully I can get my thoughts out w/o confusing everybody (myself included):001_huh:. I have always been torn between the classical and Charlotte Mason method of schooling so we have used bits and pieces of both. Well, we are going back to MFW for good and after reading their catalog about the language arts recommendations (PLL & Writing Strands) and why they recommend them, I am torn. We have been using FLL, R&S(FLL w/ dd8 & R&S w/ds11) & WWE this year , and they are really great programs. However, MFW made some really good points about when they recommend introducing things and how they introduce them that are very different than the way it is done in FLL, R&S & WWE. They do not formally introduce grammar until around 7th grade. They say it is better to learn diagraming/grammar when kids are beginning to think more abstractly than earlier on. They also recommend Writing Strands because it walks kids through entire papers, not isolated sentences/paragraphs. They make the argument that a lot of hs'ers get burnt out with all the LA early on before they get to the "fun" parts of the school day thus have a harder time retaining any of it. All that said, am I wasting my time/possibly burning out my kids going over the parts of speach & grammar year after year when my kids are young? My kids are doing ok with FLL, R&S & WWE, but they don't like it. They moan, huff and sigh when I get it out, but I have noticed much improvement in the naration/dictation area of ds11 (we had not previously done any naration/dictation before this year). Now I know that my kids are not going to love every part of school and there will be parts that they probably don't like, but at the same time, I don't want to set a bad tone for LA in the future. Ok, have I totally lost you? Sorry. This tired, worn out hs mom would really love to hear what your thoughts on this are. If you are using/have used PLL/ILL as your LA program, how is it going/did it go? Thank you...:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulhomeschooler Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I'm in the same boat! I think we've decided to go with PLL & WS. I have liked MFW's recomendations thus far. So I will trust them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omma Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I've kind of been in the same boat, too, in that I've been wondering if less is more when it comes to grammar instruction in the elementary grades. I have a boy who just turned 11 and a girl who is 9. I tried ILL with my ds and it has not worked out well, so I am going back to BJU English with him. Anyway, MFW recommends All-In-One English for a 7th grader or so. And I will have a 6th grader next year and I think it is too late to try and go down the ILL path with this particular dc. But I am using Writing Strands with him, and I think this is working out well. I will just give him the week off of Writing Strands on a week in which we are emphasizing writing with BJU. My 9 dd, OTOH, is young enough that she seems to be thriving with the ILL approach. Her b-day was last Nov. and I just started her with the 4th grade ILL in January and I think she likes it a lot. The gentle, fun approach for writing cute compositions and reading poetry and discussing artwork pictures is working very well for her. Now I don't know what would work best with your dc, but I totally understand your question and was almost going to start a thread just like yours a few weeks ago! :D Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerstone Classical Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 PLL/WS would be my vote. We have done MFW and chose Saxon for math and the recommendations from WTM for LA (SWO, FLL, and WWE) it is way too much for us. Very time consuming. We have used MFW 1st grade, Adv, and ECC and the more I've used MFW the more I trust their recommendations and see in hind sight how it all fits nicely together and in a timely manner based on the child's age and stage. I wished I would have done all MFW recommendations from the beginning because I feel that our experience would have been more joyful, and not drudgery. Being caught up and not always behind because the kiddos fade before we get everything done. I've learned less is more! For Sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiebug_1976 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 PLL/WS would be my vote. We have done MFW and chose Saxon for math and the recommendations from WTM for LA (SWO, FLL, and WWE) it is way too much for us. Very time consuming. We have used MFW 1st grade, Adv, and ECC and the more I've used MFW the more I trust their recommendations and see in hind sight how it all fits nicely together and in a timely manner based on the child's age and stage. I wished I would have done all MFW recommendations from the beginning because I feel that our experience would have been more joyful, and not drudgery. Being caught up and not always behind because the kiddos fade before we get everything done. I've learned less is more! For Sure! This is exactly what I'm afraid of if I don't give PLL/WS a try. I already wish we would have stayed w/ MFW instead of switching around for the last 2 years. I have nothing against FLL/WWE, but after using them this year, I am concerned that it is too much, too soon for us (and very time consuming). Thanks for sharing your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeriJ Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Oh boy! I'm getting all thrown off here! :001_smile: I had been debating the exact same thing. We are starting MFW Adv. in the fall, and I had just finally decided to go with FLL/WWE. I hate to back up and second guess myself, but you are all making some good points! lots of thinking to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerstone Classical Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Oh boy! I'm getting all thrown off here! :001_smile: I had been debating the exact same thing. We are starting MFW Adv. in the fall, and I had just finally decided to go with FLL/WWE. I hate to back up and second guess myself, but you are all making some good points! lots of thinking to do ;):tongue_smilie:Don't you just love this forum? It always gives you something to think about, and second guess yourself. But I appreciate all the help everyone gives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeriJ Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 PLL/WS would be my vote. We have done MFW and chose Saxon for math and the recommendations from WTM for LA (SWO, FLL, and WWE) it is way too much for us. Very time consuming. We have used MFW 1st grade, Adv, and ECC and the more I've used MFW the more I trust their recommendations and see in hind sight how it all fits nicely together and in a timely manner based on the child's age and stage. I wished I would have done all MFW recommendations from the beginning because I feel that our experience would have been more joyful, and not drudgery. Being caught up and not always behind because the kiddos fade before we get everything done. I've learned less is more! For Sure! Still thinking about this thread. So did you eventually use PLL/WS at some point? and find it to be much less time consuming? I always thought that FLL was supposed to be nice and short. Your post really has me thinking about this...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulhomeschooler Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 We are using PLL this year with MFW adventures and my son actually likes the lessons. The only part he grumbles about is when he has to do dictation, but this is because he feels insecure about it. This is his first year doing it. I have noticed a great deal of improvement in his writing, spelling, and sentence structure since using PLL. The only thing I worry about is whether or not he is getting the "names" of grammar you know... Nouns, Adjectives, etc. But I am just going to trust MFW and go with it since it is fitting nicely with our schedule and he is enjoying it. He actually has started (his own idea) a journal and has been writing in it daily (stories, and daily activities) and is so proud of his work. Have you looked at writing strands? I looked at the level 3 and LOVED it! I can't wait to start it with him.... when the time is right. I have to admit I have been very tempted to switch to FLL (got as far as putting it my cart to order) because I loved OPGTR and have a feeling I would like anything put out by Peacehill, but if it's not broke why fix it :-) To cover the grammar part in more depth, I am planning on playing some grammar games with him and doing madlibs together once a week just for fun and a light introduction to nouns, verbs, etc. Sorry so long, I just know how you feel and thought I could maybe help :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 What about doing PLL and WWE?! PLL for simple grammar, memory work, observation, picture study etc. and WWE for excellent writing instruction? Plus, it has the added benefit of built in copywork, narration and dictation so there is no chance to forget! I think it would be easy enough to skip any lessons in PLL that were overly redundant if you are using WWE, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Katie, I can't comment on MFW or PLL/ILL since I've never seen those in person. BUT, when I was mulling MFW over seriously and called them, I cried real tears of shock/joy at the thought of a shorter homeschool day, with time to just be a mom, a wife, and actually cook something decent or take care of the house (gasp!). I totally understand the pull to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I feel the same pull between the two styles. My dd in first grade seems to just pick things up but without direct instruction my 4th grader wouldn't even use punctuation of any kind. I think it is somewhat child dependent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiebug_1976 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 Katie, I can't comment on MFW or PLL/ILL since I've never seen those in person. BUT, when I was mulling MFW over seriously and called them, I cried real tears of shock/joy at the thought of a shorter homeschool day, with time to just be a mom, a wife, and actually cook something decent or take care of the house (gasp!). I totally understand the pull to that. This is where I am struggling to find the right balance. I don't want to sacrifice my kids education, but at the same time, we've been eating WAY too many PBJ's & bowls of cereal here! I don't need a spotless house, but I would like to be able to find the couch (buried under clean laundry waiting to be folded & put away most of the time). Something is going to have to give, so I think we are going back to MFW for good. After praying and thinking about it (ALOT) the things I/we are missing in our school day are the things we did in our 1 1/2 years of using MFW. So we are going back, and I think I am going to trust their judgment in most of their LA recommendations as well. I already use Spelling Power for my older dc, but have started AAS with my dd8 and we are really loving it. So I may hang on to AAS, we'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Katie, yes, those are the same things I was thinking of when I posted. I'm not a stickler for housecleaning perfection at all - that's not what I was referring to (by far); but I'd like to be able to have people over without worrying that our particular level of messiness would be so foriegn to them it would make them truly uncomfortable. I'd like to at least take care of my family's nutrition well enough that I don't wonder if it's affecting health & ability to learn/concentrate. I see my ds10 getting lonely lately, and I'd like to see the top of flat surfaces (any) in my home. No matter what I do with or w/o MFW, I know I don't want to overload the schedule next year and that I have to keep it doable. Every last moment of my time cannot be taken up with planning and researching anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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