What are the Strengths and Weaknesses of TOG LG?

[jer2911mom]

I am looking into TOG for first grade and would appreciate hearing the strengths and weaknesses at the LG level.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[johnandtinagilbert]

I'll start with the weaknesses b/c the list is shorter :D

Cons:

1. No books for beginning readers. Although I understand why they left this out (too many possible "levels" for beginning readers as reading is a skill that comes to dc at different time) the "booklist" of them would be nice.Having said that, I did post here about an easy remedy to this situation.

 

2. No memorization included. I can see how mileage varies with memorization selections, too, but would like an easy reference tool like the HOD CD.

 

3. I would like more poetry. There is some, but I love poetry, so a weekly option would be grand. We simply add to this by choosing a variety of poetry and reading it anyways.

 

Pros:

1. Interesting reading selections: colorful, informative, fun! TOG has really given me a feel for great authors over the years I've use it.

 

2. Flexibility: like a book from another level...okay, it's right there, just choose it. Don't have time for literature this week b/c the inlaws are in town...okay, it doesn't hamper the rest of the program.

 

3. Supplements: vocab lists, famous people lists, maps, evaluations, literature comp. worksheets, writing suggestions, Pop Quizzes all in one tidy place. The legwork is DONE! Oh, if the newbies only knew how life used to be before companies put it all together for us....LONG hours of searching.

 

4. K--Mom: REALLY. Hindsight has taught me a few things. One of them is while you are busy chasing littles, you'll be a whole other kind of busy when they get big. I have found it's much easier to be a step ahead of them academically when they're young. The pace is fast when they get in middle and high school and it's been Very.Difficult to keep a step ahead of them at this point. I would have been much wiser to spend less time scrapbooking and more time reading history when they were little. I have reconsidered what a Mom's Night Out can look like: Bookstore + History + coffee would have been time better spent. The self-education is organized and fruitful in TOG. The whole "TOG benefits more from 5th grade on" is only a half truth. It does ROCK in those years, but the provision of "get ahead of the game" that TOG provides is, imho, priceless. Since I'm no longer that step ahead, the teacher's notes hold my hand and keep me moving forward; otherwise, I would have been defeated long ago.

 

5. Multi-level: managing a large family takes skill and organization. TOG honestly does ALL the legwork for me. I can liken it to food :) I can buy a frozen Tostino's pizza. I can also buy a Deli Fresh Pizza. Both will save me time, but one tastes much better. TOG allows me to get a cheese pizza for my LG, pepperoni for my UG and Supreme for the rest of us. I no longer have time to prepare all that pizza by myself. We'd be eating at 9pm. Instead, I head to the TOG buffet and meet the needs of an entire household in one place. It's wonderful and it's nutritious!

 

6. Content : Amazing, well thought out, and meets a variety of teaching methods: Classical, Unit Study, easily used as Charlotte Mason, Literature rich, high school credits The LG specifically allows me to be gentle like CM, and ensures we're moving toward our more classical goals, and provides the hands on we Need.

 

7: Cost. Now, some look at the cost and think, "Whew! Expensive." Nope. It's pretty nice for me now that I own all 4 levels. The only expense I have for the next few years are high school books. Imagine that by the time you're dc are in high school, you no longer have to spend a dime for anyone's history.

 

8. Teacher Training. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say, although my zeal and willingness to ask made up for it, I had No Idea what I was doing (really doing) when I started this journey. TOG really has taught me how to organize a study, facilitate it, even show me what options have merit and which have the face of merit, but really aren't. The teacher training is invaluable. I only wish I would have found TOG much sooner. I can only testify that there are no tears with my Little League and my Elders could have cried me a river. I'm a much better teacher and TOG is a huge part of the process.

 

Now, before someone finds me melodramatic, let me say this: there are other programs that may have helped me along the way, but TOG has truly made a difference in our home school and I don't see any Real Reason to wait and use it later. It is wonderful to start now. I can and will build a strong foundation of knowledge and offers plenty toward character building.

Edited February 23, 2011 by johnandtinagilbert

[Guest]

8. Teacher Training. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say, although my zeal and willingness to ask made up for it, I had No Idea what I was doing (really doing) when I started this journey. TOG really has taught me how to organize a study, facilitate it, even show me what options have merit and which have the face of merit, but really aren't. The teacher training is invaluable. I only wish I would have found TOG much sooner. I can only testify that there are no tears with my Little League and my Elders could have cried me a river. I'm a much better teacher and TOG is a huge part of the process.[/Quote]

 

Have you gone though the teacher's training Tina? Would you mind sharing a little more about how you liked it and how it helped you?

[Leimarie]

Have you gone though the teacher's training Tina? Would you mind sharing a little more about how you liked it and how it helped you?

 

I'm not Tina but I have listened to two of the Teacher Training webinars. "Out of the Shrink Wrap" and "Lesson Planning 101" they were such a valuable use of my time it really helped me understand the vision on the curriculum and talked me off the edge when I was feeling overwhelmed with the tremendous variety and choices. I plan on listening to "Grammar and Daialectic Student"s too. (I only have LG students and below right now) I'm looking forward to seeing if they release new ones this summer too.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Have you gone though the teacher's training Tina? Would you mind sharing a little more about how you liked it and how it helped you?

I actually didn't do the now provided training b/c it wasn't around when I started. My "training" was hands on from using TOG. I'm a doer :)

 

When I started TOG, I had this idea that keeping my kids on the same topic meant using the same books. I struggled finding a Family Core that was suitable for the variety of ages in our house. I spent hours at the library digging through books and often made poor choices b/c I didn't read the books from cover to cover. I was also unfamiliar with great authors and their works at large. Someone always suffered, including me or dh. TOG showed me that the book doesn't need to be the same, just the topic. It points me in the direction of good authors. It was a nice resource and a great voice of experience. I tried so hard to keep us together in places we didn't need to be that I burnt out! We also got so far off course that Rabbit Trails took over....we spent 5 years in what would have been 3Units of TOG. :o I'd go too deep too soon and now that they're older, I realize I wasted a lot of time...they only remember the fun highlights and not all the details we covered.

 

Socratic discussion was well beyond me. I have listened to that Teacher Training and it was wonderful. The visual examples in the Teacher's Notes also made a huge difference (before the mp3 was available). Simply by reading the questions (Accountability and Thinking) has taught me how to ask better questions and the complete answers provided show me what to expect. So, the TN offer me training and also clearly lay out an appropriate level of expectation. The hand holding is great...."be sure to ask this." "remind your student about when we studied this" So, it also fills in the gaps of my poor history upbringing and helps this mom (who has so many dc) keep track of who learned what, when.

 

Additionally, a benefit is being able to mix and max learning levels to meet the needs of my students. This taught me how to be flexible as a teacher. Just b/c dd is strong in reading doesn't mean she can handle the complex thinking of the D history questions (as an example). It also applies in LG/UG b/c TOG has taught me clear examples in level of difficulty amongst ability levels. Like I said, I really didn't know anything when I started. I couldn't pick up a book, any book, and know who would benefit most from it. We spent a lot of time being frustrated b/c of my inexperience and my inability to put down what I wanted. TOG offers strength in guidelines and I needed that then. Geesh, I need that Now for high school.

 

It is amazing how pleasant and how much better life is for the Little League. I know experience in general is a great teacher, but experience using a product that is bread from experience (Marcia, et al) is even better.

[SewLittleTime]

I'll start with the weaknesses b/c the list is shorter :D

Cons:

1. No books for beginning readers. Although I understand why they left this out (too many possible "levels" for beginning readers as reading is a skill that comes to dc at different time) the "booklist" of them would be nice.Having said that, I did post here about an easy remedy to this situation.

 

2. No memorization included. I can see how mileage varies with memorization selections, too, but would like an easy reference tool like the HOD CD.

 

3. I would like more poetry. There is some, but I love poetry, so a weekly option would be grand. We simply add to this by choosing a variety of poetry and reading it anyways.

 

Pros:

1. Interesting reading selections: colorful, informative, fun! TOG has really given me a feel for great authors over the years I've use it.

 

2. Flexibility: like a book from another level...okay, it's right there, just choose it. Don't have time for literature this week b/c the inlaws are in town...okay, it doesn't hamper the rest of the program.

 

3. Supplements: vocab lists, famous people lists, maps, evaluations, literature comp. worksheets, writing suggestions, Pop Quizzes all in one tidy place. The legwork is DONE! Oh, if the newbies only knew how life used to be before companies put it all together for us....LONG hours of searching.

 

4. K--Mom: REALLY. Hindsight has taught me a few things. One of them is while you are busy chasing littles, you'll be a whole other kind of busy when they get big. I have found it's much easier to be a step ahead of them academically when they're young. The pace is fast when they get in middle and high school and it's been Very.Difficult to keep a step ahead of them at this point. I would have been much wiser to spend less time scrapbooking and more time reading history when they were little. I have reconsidered what a Mom's Night Out can look like: Bookstore + History + coffee would have been time better spent. The self-education is organized and fruitful in TOG. The whole "TOG benefits more from 5th grade on" is only a half truth. It does ROCK in those years, but the provision of "get ahead of the game" that TOG provides is, imho, priceless. Since I'm no longer that step ahead, the teacher's notes hold my hand and keep me moving forward; otherwise, I would have been defeated long ago.

 

5. Multi-level: managing a large family takes skill and organization. TOG honestly does ALL the legwork for me. I can liken it to food :) I can buy a frozen Tostino's pizza. I can also buy a Deli Fresh Pizza. Both will save me time, but one tastes much better. TOG allows me to get a cheese pizza for my LG, pepperoni for my UG and Supreme for the rest of us. I no longer have time to prepare all that pizza by myself. We'd be eating at 9pm. Instead, I head to the TOG buffet and meet the needs of an entire household in one place. It's wonderful and it's nutritious!

 

6. Content : Amazing, well thought out, and meets a variety of teaching methods: Classical, Unit Study, easily used as Charlotte Mason, Literature rich, high school credits The LG specifically allows me to be gentle like CM, and ensures we're moving toward our more classical goals, and provides the hands on we Need.

 

7: Cost. Now, some look at the cost and think, "Whew! Expensive." Nope. It's pretty nice for me now that I own all 4 levels. The only expense I have for the next few years are high school books. Imagine that by the time you're dc are in high school, you no longer have to spend a dime for anyone's history.

 

8. Teacher Training. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say, although my zeal and willingness to ask made up for it, I had No Idea what I was doing (really doing) when I started this journey. TOG really has taught me how to organize a study, facilitate it, even show me what options have merit and which have the face of merit, but really aren't. The teacher training is invaluable. I only wish I would have found TOG much sooner. I can only testify that there are no tears with my Little League and my Elders could have cried me a river. I'm a much better teacher and TOG is a huge part of the process.

 

Now, before someone finds me melodramatic, let me say this: there are other programs that may have helped me along the way, but TOG has truly made a difference in our home school and I don't see any Real Reason to wait and use it later. It is wonderful to start now. I can and will build a strong foundation of knowledge and offers plenty toward character building.

:iagree:My list is very similar to Tina's.

 

The poetry aspect is also important to me b/c I want my children to not be afraid of reading poetry. Starting them while they are little with poetry is one way I hope to encourage the idea that poetry isn't scary! I dreaded poetry in high school and college simply b/c I hadn't had enough exposure to reading it. My plan here is to choose the poetry books that SL offers for each core and use those as a base for reading poetry to my kids. We have taken to tea time on Thursdays for this and it's a lot fun!

 

The memorization is easy enough to plug in, but it sure would be easier if it said memorize XYZ this week. I don't worry too much about this b/c my kids are memorizing scripture weekly, memorizing poetry in FLL, and memorizing in other places where appropriate.

 

IMO, the strengths of TOG outweigh the cons. I found more reasons to choose TOG than to not.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I wanted to add, I like how the UG begins multi-week projects, both writing and hands on. I find the preparation and guiding toward creating a mature student is a benefit and does a good job getting ready for the Dialectic stage. It's nice to have someone else encourage my dc to put their big boy/girl pants on ;)

[razorbackmama]

Caveat: They may have changed things since I used TOG 2ish years ago.

 

One of the MAJOR cons about the LG level is that the overview pages often don't jive with it. It will list vocabulary words that are not in that week's readings. It will list PEOPLE who aren't in those books. It will list topics that aren't covered. This frustrated me to no end because what I WANTED to do was list all those things on a white board at the beginning of the week and then sort of give my kids a glimpse of what we were going to cover. Then at the end of the week we'd realize we hadn't actually covered the stuff that I had written down, even though we'd read all of the assigned books and pages. I finally asked about it and was told by Dana C. (I think that's her name??? She's a big whig over there) to ignore what is listed on the overview pages and to just use the readings.:001_huh:

 

The mapping activities were next to impossible. I was told to just give my kids the answers. I finally bought the atlas used as the R geography reference, and that actually helped somewhat.

 

Now, when we got to UG, it was worse. I had absolutely no guidance whatsoever on what to do with my UG son. Since he was UG, he was expected to read the books on his own. I didn't have time to read his books too, so I had no idea what to discuss with him at all, since there are no discussion questions or any real notes at all for UG, like there are with D or R level material. I really felt lost.

 

I plodded through and gave TOG and honest go at it for two whole years but never could get it to work.

 

But like I said, maybe they've changed this?????

[boscopup]

I plodded through and gave TOG and honest go at it for two whole years but never could get it to work.

 

But like I said, maybe they've changed this?????

 

Was it classic or redesigned? :lurk5:

 

(I'm thinking about giving TOG Y2 a try next year, but I'd try one unit before committing to the whole year)

[TKDmom]

:lurk5:

[razorbackmama]

Was it classic or redesigned? :lurk5:

 

It was the Redesigned.

[Guest]

I actually didn't do the now provided training b/c it wasn't around when I started. My "training" was hands on from using TOG. I'm a doer :)

 

Yep, me too :). I just learn along the way and adjust accordingly. I am just wondering in case I feel the need in the future.

 

When I started TOG, I had this idea that keeping my kids on the same topic meant using the same books. I struggled finding a Family Core that was suitable for the variety of ages in our house. I spent hours at the library digging through books and often made poor choices b/c I didn't read the books from cover to cover. I was also unfamiliar with great authors and their works at large. Someone always suffered, including me or dh. TOG showed me that the book doesn't need to be the same, just the topic. It points me in the direction of good authors. It was a nice resource and a great voice of experience. I tried so hard to keep us together in places we didn't need to be that I burnt out! We also got so far off course that Rabbit Trails took over....we spent 5 years in what would have been 3Units of TOG. :o I'd go too deep too soon and now that they're older, I realize I wasted a lot of time...they only remember the fun highlights and not all the details we covered.

 

That happened to me with TOG. It was my fault. I started with good intentions on keeping it light for the LG level but did get carried away. I am picking myself up though and making the appropriate changes. Thankfully, I caught on quick.

 

Socratic discussion was well beyond me. I have listened to that Teacher Training and it was wonderful. The visual examples in the Teacher's Notes also made a huge difference (before the mp3 was available). Simply by reading the questions (Accountability and Thinking) has taught me how to ask better questions and the complete answers provided show me what to expect. So, the TN offer me training and also clearly lay out an appropriate level of expectation. The hand holding is great...."be sure to ask this." "remind your student about when we studied this" So, it also fills in the gaps of my poor history upbringing and helps this mom (who has so many dc) keep track of who learned what, when.

 

Both my dad and hubby are history buffs. My dad has read and owns lots of books from the Greek greats in Ancient Greek and modern Greek. I'm the reader in the family so his great home library will be passed onto me :D. I was also taught with the Socratic method but I don't know if I feel comfortable enough to teach using it so I am looking for resources to use. I am considering getting "Holding Socratic Discussions" next year for my own benefit for now and also "Tailoring Tapestry to Fit". For now, I am saving to buy Rosetta Stone so I am not spending any more money on anything :tongue_smilie:.

 

Additionally, a benefit is being able to mix and max learning levels to meet the needs of my students. This taught me how to be flexible as a teacher. Just b/c dd is strong in reading doesn't mean she can handle the complex thinking of the D history questions (as an example). It also applies in LG/UG b/c TOG has taught me clear examples in level of difficulty amongst ability levels. Like I said, I really didn't know anything when I started. I couldn't pick up a book, any book, and know who would benefit most from it. We spent a lot of time being frustrated b/c of my inexperience and my inability to put down what I wanted. TOG offers strength in guidelines and I needed that then. Geesh, I need that Now for high school.[/Quote]

 

I think I will save the "Grammar and Dialectic Students" for the following year since I want to get some of SWB's audio lectures for next year also :). The transitioning between levels is something I am interested in also. Jumping from one level one year to the next the following year due to grade I know is not the best way to go about it. So I am looking for good ways of doing that also. I am trying to avoid some of the leg work (research) if I can get to my goal faster without having to find things out the hard way :tongue_smilie:.

 

It is amazing how pleasant and how much better life is for the Little League. I know experience in general is a great teacher, but experience using a product that is bread from experience (Marcia, et al) is even better.

 

:iagree:

[Guest]

I'm not Tina but I have listened to two of the Teacher Training webinars. "Out of the Shrink Wrap" and "Lesson Planning 101" they were such a valuable use of my time it really helped me understand the vision on the curriculum and talked me off the edge when I was feeling overwhelmed with the tremendous variety and choices. I plan on listening to "Grammar and Daialectic Student"s too. (I only have LG students and below right now) I'm looking forward to seeing if they release new ones this summer too.

 

Thank you! Lesson Planning 101" is one I will look at again if I see I need it. For right now I think I should be ok.

[Guest]

I agree with Tina and Sherry. I too have all good things to say about TOG. It has been a blessing in our family and the book selections have held my son's interest. They have given my science kid a love and interest for history. He either reads the books to me or we read them together. I think Tina has pretty much covered all the good points already though :).

 

TOG is a pretty large expense to take on. In the long run it does not work out to be any more than most other curricula out there but the initial investment is rather high. My advice to those looking into and considering TOG is to download the sample and give it a try. If you don't feel it gives you enough of an indication whether it will work for your family, another option is purchasing just one unit. This way you can get a feel for TOG without feeling like you have put out all this money for something that may not work for your family. I thought I would add this because I can understand the apprehension when trying out TOG initially.

[AngelBee]

:lurk5:

[Tracy]

One of the MAJOR cons about the LG level is that the overview pages often don't jive with it. It will list vocabulary words that are not in that week's readings. It will list PEOPLE who aren't in those books. It will list topics that aren't covered. This frustrated me to no end because what I WANTED to do was list all those things on a white board at the beginning of the week and then sort of give my kids a glimpse of what we were going to cover. Then at the end of the week we'd realize we hadn't actually covered the stuff that I had written down, even though we'd read all of the assigned books and pages. I finally asked about it and was told by Dana C. (I think that's her name??? She's a big whig over there) to ignore what is listed on the overview pages and to just use the readings.:001_huh:

 

This is true about the G levels. We are doing Year 1 right now, and I did find it frustrating at the beginning that not even the Title of the week-plan is always pertinent to what we are studying that week (let alone the overview pages, the vocabulary pages, etc.). I very quickly put it in perspective this way:

 

• At the Grammar levels, the 3 R's are what we need to focus on; history and literature are icing on the cake.

• I am using TOG for me--so that when my dd is ready for those Socratic discussions at the D and R levels, I will be ready. Honestly, when I see people with D and R kids just starting TOG, it makes me want to run and hide. I would not be prepared.

• TOG really excels in the hands-on at the Grammar levels, and this is exactly what we need. Yet it is not the crafty, busywork sort of hands-on. It is the kind that spurs the imagine and encourages lots of pretend play. (You know, the kind that I don't need supervise.)

I do think that it is unfortunate that the TOG folks do not consider Socratic discussions appropriate for G levels. I personally think that the Socratic method is useful for all ages. But it is what it is, and even so, it is a fabulous program. I am learning so much about history with my LG dd, even without the TNs. And I have another four years with TOG before we really need to dig in to history and literature. I am very grateful to have the guide that is TOG.

[Guest]

This is true about the G levels. We are doing Year 1 right now, and I did find it frustrating at the beginning that not even the Title of the week-plan is always pertinent to what we are studying that week (let alone the overview pages, the vocabulary pages, etc.). I very quickly put it in perspective this way:

 

• At the Grammar levels, the 3 R's are what we need to focus on; history and literature are icing on the cake.

• I am using TOG for me--so that when my dd is ready for those Socratic discussions at the D and R levels, I will be ready. Honestly, when I see people with D and R kids just starting TOG, it makes me want to run and hide. I would not be prepared.

• TOG really excels in the hands-on at the Grammar levels, and this is exactly what we need. Yet it is not the crafty, busywork sort of hands-on. It is the kind that spurs the imagine and encourages lots of pretend play. (You know, the kind that I don't need supervise.)

 

I do think that it is unfortunate that the TOG folks do not consider Socratic discussions appropriate for G levels. I personally think that the Socratic method is useful for all ages. But it is what it is, and even so, it is a fabulous program. I am learning so much about history with my LG dd, even without the TNs. And I have another four years with TOG before we really need to dig in to history and literature. I am very grateful to have the guide that is TOG.

 

Great post Tracy :). I too noticed some inconsistencies with Year 1 and I have had to do a little extra leg work to get some of the info. It was not a big enough deal to make me want to ditch the program. It took me a while but I have reached the point that you did also, and I agree that at the LG level we need to focus on the basics first and things like history are gravy. TOG just makes for a tastier gravy :D. My research has definitely benefited me and I have been happily learning along with my son. All curricula providers need to work on kinks in their programs, especially when they are new. Redesign was put out a few years ago and they are working on updating Year 1. This is another reason that makes owning DE so great. We get to enjoy all the updates.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Guest

[SnMomof7]

Thinking about TOG for UG in grade 4 so listening in...

[jewel7123]

This is true about the G levels. We are doing Year 1 right now, and I did find it frustrating at the beginning that not even the Title of the week-plan is always pertinent to what we are studying that week (let alone the overview pages, the vocabulary pages, etc.). I very quickly put it in perspective this way:

 

• At the Grammar levels, the 3 R's are what we need to focus on; history and literature are icing on the cake.

• I am using TOG for me--so that when my dd is ready for those Socratic discussions at the D and R levels, I will be ready. Honestly, when I see people with D and R kids just starting TOG, it makes me want to run and hide. I would not be prepared.

• TOG really excels in the hands-on at the Grammar levels, and this is exactly what we need. Yet it is not the crafty, busywork sort of hands-on. It is the kind that spurs the imagine and encourages lots of pretend play. (You know, the kind that I don't need supervise.)

 

I do think that it is unfortunate that the TOG folks do not consider Socratic discussions appropriate for G levels. I personally think that the Socratic method is useful for all ages. But it is what it is, and even so, it is a fabulous program. I am learning so much about history with my LG dd, even without the TNs. And I have another four years with TOG before we really need to dig in to history and literature. I am very grateful to have the guide that is TOG.

 

Hmm, this is interesting to know since I'm about to start Year 1 in a few months. So what would you do in this case? How did you overcome the discrepancies?

[jer2911mom]

TOG really excels in the hands-on at the Grammar levels, and this is exactly what we need. Yet it is not the crafty, busywork sort of hands-on. It is the kind that spurs the imagine and encourages lots of pretend play. (You know, the kind that I don't need supervise.)

 

Thanks for your reply. Can you please elaborate on what kinds of hands-on activities are included? I don't have a good feel for this after looking at the sample. Thanks!

[johnandtinagilbert]

Caveat: They may have changed things since I used TOG 2ish years ago.

 

One of the MAJOR cons about the LG level is that the overview pages often don't jive with it. It will list vocabulary words that are not in that week's readings. It will list PEOPLE who aren't in those books. It will list topics that aren't covered. This frustrated me to no end because what I WANTED to do was list all those things on a white board at the beginning of the week and then sort of give my kids a glimpse of what we were going to cover. Then at the end of the week we'd realize we hadn't actually covered the stuff that I had written down, even though we'd read all of the assigned books and pages. I finally asked about it and was told by Dana C. (I think that's her name??? She's a big whig over there) to ignore what is listed on the overview pages and to just use the readings.:001_huh:

 

The mapping activities were next to impossible. I was told to just give my kids the answers. I finally bought the atlas used as the R geography reference, and that actually helped somewhat.

 

Now, when we got to UG, it was worse. I had absolutely no guidance whatsoever on what to do with my UG son. Since he was UG, he was expected to read the books on his own. I didn't have time to read his books too, so I had no idea what to discuss with him at all, since there are no discussion questions or any real notes at all for UG, like there are with D or R level material. I really felt lost.

 

I plodded through and gave TOG and honest go at it for two whole years but never could get it to work.

 

But like I said, maybe they've changed this?????

I guess I just pay less attention to the threads and overview as others. There were some tough map days here or there, but nothing our atlas or the teacher's notes couldn't readily correct. I do believe this is why they are working towards a heavy Year 1 update.

 

This is true about the G levels. We are doing Year 1 right now, and I did find it frustrating at the beginning that not even the Title of the week-plan is always pertinent to what we are studying that week (let alone the overview pages, the vocabulary pages, etc.). I very quickly put it in perspective this way:

 

• At the Grammar levels, the 3 R's are what we need to focus on; history and literature are icing on the cake.

• I am using TOG for me--so that when my dd is ready for those Socratic discussions at the D and R levels, I will be ready. Honestly, when I see people with D and R kids just starting TOG, it makes me want to run and hide. I would not be prepared.

• TOG really excels in the hands-on at the Grammar levels, and this is exactly what we need. Yet it is not the crafty, busywork sort of hands-on. It is the kind that spurs the imagine and encourages lots of pretend play. (You know, the kind that I don't need supervise.)

 

I do think that it is unfortunate that the TOG folks do not consider Socratic discussions appropriate for G levels. I personally think that the Socratic method is useful for all ages. But it is what it is, and even so, it is a fabulous program. I am learning so much about history with my LG dd, even without the TNs. And I have another four years with TOG before we really need to dig in to history and literature. I am very grateful to have the guide that is TOG.

Now that I'm comfy in Socratic Disc., it is pretty easy for me to apply the principles with the grammar kiddos. Just having the guide, as you so aptly titled it, does make a difference.

 

Hmm, this is interesting to know since I'm about to start Year 1 in a few months. So what would you do in this case? How did you overcome the discrepancies?

Ignore the threads and overviews. They are meant to be guidelines, hints, a peek...the meat of grammar is in booklist and SAP. Honestly, I didn't even read the overview for at least 2 years after using TOG. They don't matter, they're kind of a perk.

 

Thanks for your reply. Can you please elaborate on what kinds of hands-on activities are included? I don't have a good feel for this after looking at the sample. Thanks!

lapbooks, costumes (shoes, jewelry, clothing), tools (helmets, swords, shields), musical instruments, project display boards, immitation pottery, write a newspaper, write a play, pretend you're a ____ and convince your neighbor of ______, cook food from this time The books provide instructions on it all.

[SewLittleTime]

One of the MAJOR cons about the LG level is that the overview pages often don't jive with it. It will list vocabulary words that are not in that week's readings. It will list PEOPLE who aren't in those books. It will list topics that aren't covered. This frustrated me to no end because what I WANTED to do was list all those things on a white board at the beginning of the week and then sort of give my kids a glimpse of what we were going to cover. Then at the end of the week we'd realize we hadn't actually covered the stuff that I had written down, even though we'd read all of the assigned books and pages. I finally asked about it and was told by Dana C. (I think that's her name??? She's a big whig over there) to ignore what is listed on the overview pages and to just use the readings.:001_huh:

 

The mapping activities were next to impossible. I was told to just give my kids the answers. I finally bought the atlas used as the R geography reference, and that actually helped somewhat.

 

Now, when we got to UG, it was worse. I had absolutely no guidance whatsoever on what to do with my UG son. Since he was UG, he was expected to read the books on his own. I didn't have time to read his books too, so I had no idea what to discuss with him at all, since there are no discussion questions or any real notes at all for UG, like there are with D or R level material. I really felt lost.

 

I plodded through and gave TOG and honest go at it for two whole years but never could get it to work.

 

But like I said, maybe they've changed this?????

This has not been our experience at all. I'm sorry that it was for you. We started with Y2U4 though. We use the teacher maps to fill our maps at the LG and UG level. I'm trying introduce the places on the map at this point. Give them a basis for where the weeks history reading are happening. Mapping has been fun! Even my K'er has loved the mapping. I usually print off little labels for him to glue on his map instead of writing the places.

 

We haven't had any problems locating the people in our readings either. Some of the people are in the in-depth reading and not in the core part. i.e. in Y2U4 John Harrison was covered in an in-depth LG reading, but not in the core reading.

[razorbackmama]

I used Y1, so apparently there was a problem with it and not me, since they are doing such a major overhaul. I distinctly remember one of the people they had listed for LG students to learn about was found in the D resources. Since I had never covered the material either, I was completely LOST. I finally asked around and found this out. All I knew is that this guy was not in any of the LG or UG readings. I had no clue what was wrong!

[boscopup]

I used Y1, so apparently there was a problem with it and not me, since they are doing such a major overhaul. I distinctly remember one of the people they had listed for LG students to learn about was found in the D resources. Since I had never covered the material either, I was completely LOST. I finally asked around and found this out. All I knew is that this guy was not in any of the LG or UG readings. I had no clue what was wrong!

 

Ok, that makes sense! Thanks for pointing this out! I'll be starting with Y2, so hopefully it won't be as much of a problem there, but it's good to know that it sometimes can be a problem. By time I get to Y1 again, hopefully that part would be updated. :)

[jewel7123]

Ok, that makes sense! Thanks for pointing this out! I'll be starting with Y2, so hopefully it won't be as much of a problem there, but it's good to know that it sometimes can be a problem. By time I get to Y1 again, hopefully that part would be updated. :)

 

You're going to do TOG? Welcome to the darkside. :lol:

[kchara]

My husband bought me the whole set of TTT when we bought our Unit 2 a couple of weeks ago. I've watched most of them (we have 2 UG... I skipped some of the D and R discussions, and the one on Socratic Discussions, but I might go back to that one and listen after all...), and I have to say they were WELL worth the $50 he spent on the two disks. (OK, I did have a hard time with Christy Sommerville's Literature one... it was rather dry... but that's probably just me. :D) I would HIGHLY recommend getting them for new TOG users especially, but even veterans would do really well with them. I plan on watching them each summer, when we're in between school years or TOG year plans. Great information and encouragement there!

 

The free samples on the site are great, and a nice perk for those who are looking to see if TOG is right for them. And, please understand, we haven't been using TOG for all that long, but I found the first three weeks to be MUCH heavier than the rest of the unit, at least for the Y1 samples. I've heard some people get scared away from TOG because of the intensity of the three week plan in the samples, and, honestly, those three weeks were definitely the hardest for us. By the time it was done, my kids never wanted to hear about pharoahs, pyramids, or mummies. again. ;) After those first three weeks, though, we sort of hit a routine with TOG, and it became much easier for us, and I think the plan itself stopped being quite so intense, to something much more manageable for me.

[boscopup]

You're going to do TOG? Welcome to the darkside. :lol:

 

Yes, I've decided to give Y2U1 a try next year. :D If I like it, we'll probably stretch Y2 out over 1.5-2 years, since I know it's a big year and packed full of stuff. I was originally thinking I'd switch to TOG at 3rd grade for the 1800s to modern periods, just doing SOTW2 next year, but then I realized that because TOG has a different timeframe for Y2, I would be jumping into the middle of Y2 if I did that, so I might as well just go ahead and try Y2 to begin with. I'll just buy by the unit the first year, so if I don't like it after one unit, I haven't lost a ton of money. If I do like it, I can buy the full year plan the next time. It ends up being $13 more for the year (which I'm stretching over 2 years possibly) to buy by the unit (DE version + Map Aids), so that works for me. :)

[Tracy]

Hmm, this is interesting to know since I'm about to start Year 1 in a few months. So what would you do in this case? How did you overcome the discrepancies?

 

Well, I mostly just decided that it is enough to read the books and do the mapping and activities. They require very little preparation. I can see the appeal of making a list of things to look for throughout the week and then finding them. But at this age, it is not that vital. And truthfully, I need to work a lot more on keeping things fun than on making them more academic. (In fact, isn't the reason that we are all on this forum because we are drawn to the classical method of education--one that emphasizes the academic? But in the LG stage, that is not what is important.)

 

Additionally, it is easy for me to stay with TOG, because I like the emphasis on history and the separation of fact from fiction. Other programs (like SOTW and SL) do a lot of mixing of the two and use more historical fiction to demonstrate historical facts. At the LG stage, it is very tempting to use a lot of historical fiction, because it is very engaging. But I want my kids to be able to separate what is a story from what actually happened. (After all, even when historical accuracy is sought, it is usually pretty elusive.)

 

One thing I do try to do in teaching is to show the relationship between one week-plan to another. We talk about what we studied last week and how it led to what we are studying this week. I don't know if dd gets anything out of it, but I certainly do.

 

Thanks for your reply. Can you please elaborate on what kinds of hands-on activities are included? I don't have a good feel for this after looking at the sample. Thanks!

 

Well, this week, dd decided she wanted to have an Olympics show. She was a charioteer, and the stuffed walrus was the horse. She got herself all dressed up, and had the race. Then she and ds3 did a dance for the finale. Of course, dd won the race, thereby becoming Queen of Greece. She then disguised herself as a Chinese girl and went to China to discover the secret of making silk. So much for historical accuracy!:lol:

 

We have done a lot of celebrating of Jewish holidays, including Passover, Shabbat, Sukkot, and Purim. This has all been led by dd, who for some reason is fascinated by Jewish holidays. We have made an Indus Valley city out of Legos and found an Indus Valley game on the computer. We made Greek bread (easy, easy, easy--I hate to cook), and she shared it with her friends. We pretended to be an Israelite army hiding in a cave (you know, blankets over chairs). We talked about what provisions we would need and how it was likely to have been near a source of water.

 

We occasionally do something bigger. For instance, I bought Greek paper dolls, which I had to cut out for her. But once cut out, she could play with them on her own to her heart's content. Sukkot involved making a Sukkah outside, which I made dh in charge of. DH also was put in charge of camping in the yard to be like the Israelites leaving Egypt. (Funny, it seems that dh gets all of the hard jobs.:D)

[jewel7123]

If I like it, we'll probably stretch Y2 out over 1.5-2 years, since I know it's a big year and packed full of stuff.

 

That's a good idea to stretch Yr 2 out......I plan on stretching it out to 1.5 years myself, and maybe spending less time on modern this first cycle to even it out.

 

I'm excited to see so many new TOG'ers out there! :grouphug:

[jewel7123]

Well, I mostly just decided that it is enough to read the books and do the mapping and activities. They require very little preparation. I can see the appeal of making a list of things to look for throughout the week and then finding them. But at this age, it is not that vital. And truthfully, I need to work a lot more on keeping things fun than on making them more academic.

 

I think I'm with you on this......I definitely don't want to stress out over it. It IS first grade, after all! :001_smile:

[boscopup]

I think I'm with you on this......I definitely don't want to stress out over it. It IS first grade, after all! :001_smile:

 

:iagree: I'm doing Biblioplan for first grade this year, and I've already learned how to not stress out about getting things done. We read from SOTW and the Bible (we're doing Ancients), we read the K-2 readers if my library has them (it has about half of them), and we do some mapwork and their worksheet ("Cool History page"). I think TOG will help us make some connections better, but for this age, I'm not at all worried about checking every box (which you shouldn't do with TOG anyway). If we just do the history core readings and literature in TOG and don't get to anything else, I'm ok with that! If my library doesn't have the literature book for that week, I'm ok with skipping it and subbing my own literature (I'm doing my own literature this year anyway).

 

I am a check the box type of person normally (and we do daily assignment sheets here via HST+), but I am perfectly ok with not doing everything history-wise for the early elementary grades. If we skip something now in first grade, we'll hit it again a couple times later. No big deal.

[SnMomof7]

So, LG TOG moms...a couple of questions.

 

Does TOG integrate readings from the Bible or a story Bible for Yr. 1? Does it integrate mapping of Bible history with Map Aids?

 

These are super-duper important to me :).

 

You girls are all so...tempting me...to...go over...to the...TOG...side! But not until grade 4...seriously...must not....buy....more...already...purchased...SL...for...grade 3!!!!

[SnMomof7]

Bad duplicate post, bad!

Edited February 24, 2011 by Jennifer Bogart
Dial-up bleck.

[Tracy]

So, LG TOG moms...a couple of questions.

 

Does TOG integrate readings from the Bible or a story Bible for Yr. 1? Does it integrate mapping of Bible history with Map Aids?

 

These are super-duper important to me :).

 

You girls are all so...tempting me...to...go over...to the...TOG...side! But not until grade 4...seriously...must not....buy....more...already...purchased...SL...for...grade 3!!!!

 

Yes, Bible stories are used probably more than half the time for history/worldview. And MapAids does an excellent job of supporting the teachings from the Bible. For example, there is a map that shows where each tribe of Israel settled after the exodus. Another shows how Israel was divided after the death of Solomon. In our house, mapping tells half the story.

 

Whether you buy TOG now or next year, it is going to be the same price. :drool5: I know you want it! ;)

[jewel7123]

So, LG TOG moms...a couple of questions.

 

Does TOG integrate readings from the Bible or a story Bible for Yr. 1? Does it integrate mapping of Bible history with Map Aids?

 

These are super-duper important to me :).

 

You girls are all so...tempting me...to...go over...to the...TOG...side! But not until grade 4...seriously...must not....buy....more...already...purchased...SL...for...grade 3!!!!

 

TOG gives you a choice to read straight from the Bible OR a story Bible, or both! There's LOTS of Bible incorporated into Year 1. (and lots of church history in Year 2)

 

Oh, and you can always sell your SL core for grade 3, and THEN use the money to purchase TOG, lol. Or, before you do that, see if you can purchase 1 unit used here, on Homeschool Classifieds or on Ebay. (Just make sure it comes with the Loom cd!)

[AngelBee]

So, LG TOG moms...a couple of questions.

 

Does TOG integrate readings from the Bible or a story Bible for Yr. 1? Does it integrate mapping of Bible history with Map Aids?

 

These are super-duper important to me :).

 

You girls are all so...tempting me...to...go over...to the...TOG...side! But not until grade 4...seriously...must not....buy....more...already...purchased...SL...for...grade 3!!!!

What CORE did you buy?

 

I have CORE 3 and am using books for TOG YR2. ;)

[johnandtinagilbert]

Yes, Bible stories are used probably more than half the time for history/worldview. And MapAids does an excellent job of supporting the teachings from the Bible. For example, there is a map that shows where each tribe of Israel settled after the exodus. Another shows how Israel was divided after the death of Solomon. In our house, mapping tells half the story.

 

Whether you buy TOG now or next year, it is going to be the same price. :drool5: I know you want it! ;)

The pushers are back in town :lol::lol::lol:

[Guest]

I guess I just pay less attention to the threads and overview as others. There were some tough map days here or there, but nothing our atlas or the teacher's notes couldn't readily correct. I do believe this is why they are working towards a heavy Year 1 update.

 

I am one of those that reads the threads and overview for at least the G levels and the combined. I also read the overview and skim through the teacher's notes. It is one of the reasons why it takes me so much time to prepare but I am changing that now for my LG boy ;). As you said though, it has not been an issue with us either. Anything I have come across so far I have been able to figure out either through other books we have or via the Internet. Google, what a useful tool :)! TOG has been working so beautifully for us, even though I over-scheduled it :tongue_smilie:, that little things like this are a non issue. There will always be little bugs to fix with any curricula.

[SnMomof7]

Sob. I do want it!

 

I bought 1+2, a fly-through of world history/geography in a single year. I still think it will be great fun, and a good foundation to build on when we start a deeper/slower history cycle, hopefully with TOG in ...grade 4...2012/2013. At least by then they'll have the yr 1 overhaul done!

[SnMomof7]

Bad dial-up. Seriously maddening.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Jennifer Bogart

[Guest]

Well, I mostly just decided that it is enough to read the books and do the mapping and activities. They require very little preparation. I can see the appeal of making a list of things to look for throughout the week and then finding them. But at this age, it is not that vital. And truthfully, I need to work a lot more on keeping things fun than on making them more academic. (In fact, isn't the reason that we are all on this forum because we are drawn to the classical method of education--one that emphasizes the academic? But in the LG stage, that is not what is important.)

 

:iagree: This is where I am at now, although my kiddo is 7 so I am trying to keep some kind of balance. I will still do my research from my part but will only answer questions rather than trying to put everything into my poor boy's head :tongue_smilie:.

 

Additionally, it is easy for me to stay with TOG, because I like the emphasis on history and the separation of fact from fiction. Other programs (like SOTW and SL) do a lot of mixing of the two and use more historical fiction to demonstrate historical facts. At the LG stage, it is very tempting to use a lot of historical fiction, because it is very engaging. But I want my kids to be able to separate what is a story from what actually happened. (After all, even when historical accuracy is sought, it is usually pretty elusive.)

 

This was one of the top reasons that I left SL. Great program, works for many, but not the way I wanted to go where history is concerned :).

 

One thing I do try to do in teaching is to show the relationship between one week-plan to another. We talk about what we studied last week and how it led to what we are studying this week.

 

Yep, with you here too.

[Guest]

So, LG TOG moms...a couple of questions.

 

Does TOG integrate readings from the Bible or a story Bible for Yr. 1? Does it integrate mapping of Bible history with Map Aids?

 

These are super-duper important to me :).

 

You girls are all so...tempting me...to...go over...to the...TOG...side! But not until grade 4...seriously...must not....buy....more...already...purchased...SL...for...grade 3!!!!

 

Jennifer, I see Tracy already answered you so I will just say this. It was yet another reason why I switched from SL to TOG. I love the Bible integration that I did not find with SL. I find that the missionary stories can wait till the kids are older. For now, they need to know the Bible at it relates to history ;).

Edited February 24, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

Bad dial-up. Seriously maddening.

 

:lol: Well, it's increasing your post count faster :lol:!

[Guest]

About the Year 1 updates, as found in the Lampstand Press Newsletter:

 

Year 1: New Edition to be Released for the 2012 School Year

 

Last month we told you that we were planning to make deeper-than-usual updates and edits to Year 1. Four years ago, Year 1 was the first of the Redesigned year-plans to be produced. At that time, we attempted to stick close to the Classic Tapestry approaches, but as we worked on, we found better ways to format and communicate lesson plans. Thus, Redesigned Tapestry became smoother and easier to use as we ended Year 1 and began to revise Year 2. Year 1 works fine the way it is. Our overall goal in this revision is to bring Year 1 up to the same exact formatting and content correlations as are already present in Years 2-4.

To give you an idea of substantive changes, on the rhetoric level, we're redoing the Literature to bring in the same approach to literary analysis (and use of Poetics and Frameworks) as are already present in Years 2-4. We are also revising the History questions and discussion outlines for dialectics and rhetorics to be more like existing ones in Years 2-4. And, of course, we will be putting in new pages related to out-of-print books as already listed on our Book Updates Chart. Of our supplements, only Evaluations should be affected.

Because of the extensive nature of these changes, we will not be releasing the changes in 2011. Rather, we plan to release this new edition of Year 1 sometime in early 2012 for use in the 2012-2013 school year. No one buying Year 1 for the 2011-2012 school year will be affected by this process. For all DE customers, these changes will come to you as a free update. For print customers, you will be able to access book updates only (via the Book Update Chart). Remember, though, you can always convert your printed copy to DE Plus Print for only $35.

 

As always, we are so grateful to God that we get to serve the wonderful homeschooling parents that we love so much. As spring comes on, and days get longer, we pray that you will be renewed in your love for your Savior and your energy for homeschooling tasks!

 

Sincerely,

 

The Staff at Lampstand Press [/Quote]

 

The Newsletter can be found here. Just scroll down to "Year 1: New Edition to be Released for the 2012 School Year"

[AngelBee]

:lol: Well, it's increasing your post count faster :lol:!

:lol:

[boscopup]

Whether you buy TOG now or next year, it is going to be the same price. :drool5: I know you want it! ;)

 

Y'all are bad! :lol:

[SnMomof7]

:lol: Well, it's increasing your post count faster :lol:!

 

Heh. Queen Bee, here I come!!:tongue_smilie:

[SnMomof7]

Y'all are bad! :lol:

 

Ah, if only you knew how accurate that drooly smiley is! :lol:

 

I'm all:

:001_tt1::drool:

 

Over TOG now! I'm so surprised by myself, but the more I look, the more it makes sense to me, particularly for the long haul (already have 4 dc on the ground!)

[Guest]

Heh. Queen Bee, here I come!!:tongue_smilie:

 

Keep going... you need 750 for that :001_tt2:!

[Guest]

Ah, if only you knew how accurate that drooly smiley is! :lol:

 

I'm all:

:001_tt1::drool:

 

Over TOG now! I'm so surprised by myself, but the more I look, the more it makes sense to me, particularly for the long haul (already have 4 dc on the ground!)

 

I drooled for about 7 months before I ordered ;).