how to teach phonics and spelling to a child that already reads?

[italiancookies]

My DD is is 6.5 today. She has been reading since very young and is about 7th or so grade reading level. I never taught her to read it just happened. You would think this is great but in some ways not as great. We never did word families or stuff like that and her spelling is all by sound which works some of the time but mostly not.

 

So I need spelling but do I still need phonics? What would be good to use for this type of situations. I cant break out a book that says a says ahhh b/c she is like no way I know that I'm not repeating it!

 

I want something without too much prep and not super expensive!

[TracyP]

I would highly recommend All About Spelling in your situation. It is completely open and go but I'm afraid it is a little spendy. It is non consumable so could be sold or used for future kids if you have any.

[italiancookies]

I prob should have also said we do WWE1 and FLL1 and are almost done with both prob by mid march.

[Attila the Honey]

Thank you for asking this, we are in the same boat!

[Dana]

I would highly recommend All About Spelling in your situation. It is completely open and go but I'm afraid it is a little spendy. It is non consumable so could be sold or used for future kids if you have any.

 

:iagree:

 

That's what we did & it's worked.

My son is a self-taught reader as well. Absolutely REFUSED to sound out words with me (even before he was reading). We started out with Spelling Workout and he could spell many of the words, but he wasn't retaining things from one book to the next. I also saw that he couldn't sound out words. Names were horrible.

 

We started AAS - partially for their spelling but more for the phonics. There were some glitches at first. He resisted segmenting words and at first hated working on the board.

 

However... his spelling and sounding out words has improved tremendously. The program is very open & go (yea for me!). We started in level 1 in 2nd grade (probably March of last year). We're a bit past mid-way through level 2 now & I expect we'll have it finished up by the end of our year in April.

 

It's definitely worth a try.

[italiancookies]

so i dont need a separate phonics then right?

[pahansen]

We have similar problems. Thing 1 taught himself to read phonetically, and at 7 he's an amazing natural speller. He gets mixed up with words like "chauffeur". Seriously.

 

Thing 2 is 5yo and reading at what is probably a 3rd/4th grade level at least, but she seems to have learned to read predominantly by sight. Generally she'll make a stab at new words, but she has a hard time sounding things out. Spelling is also a problem. (Well, not really a "problem" -- I mean, she's only 5!) The biggest problem we've had, though, is that we homeschool through a cyber charter school and we take online standardized tests. Because the K tests for reading are based solely on kids' understanding of phonics and are mostly auditory (after all, they're not supposed to be able to ready yet!), she doesn't score well. She's just about average for her age, test-wise. To see her test scores, you would assume that she's struggling with pronouncing words!

 

I know that you're in a different place, because you're probably finishing first grade while we've not yet started it, but here are some of the things I'm doing for what I'm jokingly calling "remedial phonics." My daughter thought it was babyish at first, but I was able to hide behind the mantle of the school tests and convince her that sometimes we just have to appease others. (You will have to come up with another excuse!)

 

Over the last few months, we've used phonics sliders, which give a good sense of how/why words rhyme, and I make her deliberately sound out each sound before we say the word. (Reading "cat" was no trouble, but I was amazed by how much trouble she had separating the three sounds.)

 

We also do exercises where I say the word and she has to break it into its individual sounds. This is trickier for her, because she's very visual. In total, we do probably less than 20 minutes of phonics a week, so it's obviously not something we're doing lessons about, but it's enough to make a change.

 

Any time she asks me to spell a word, I sound out each letter and ask her what letter makes the sound (assuming that the letters/sounds make sense -- if it's a sound like /er/ I'll say, "The /er/ sound in this word is spelled...")

 

Our local dollar store also carries basic phonics wall posters/charts that can be useful for hints. ("It's like the /o/ in octopus.")

 

I know that none of these are curricula, but I'm finding that she's growing by leaps and bounds in just the past few months. I have a hunch that kids who are already self-taught readers just need to get to the point where the the visual and the audible "click," and I think we're making it. A good spelling curriculum should help with the patterns in words and all the rest, but I don't have one to recommend yet.

 

My only other recommendations are exposure to really good phonics entertainment, if you're not opposed to it. Starfall is fantastic, and even my oldest still enjoys it. It's free, and although they now have an expanded pay site (which we are enjoying), the pay site doesn't add much for phonics. Don't feel compelled to use it. Your daughter would probably enjoy/benefit from level 2 -- Learn to Read. Phonetically, it's probably what she needs, and it's silly enough that she'll enjoy it even though the reading and stories are below her level.

 

I also love the PBS show Between the Lions, if it's available in your area. (If you've never seen it before, you can see clips at http://skylinktest.com/btl.htm; it's about a lion family who runs a library.) Our library also carries the videos of the show. I don't know if you're amenable to TV shows, but each show stresses different phonetic sounds, and it is perfect for her age -- not babyish, not too grown up. The new Electric Company show is also strong on phonics, but some of the skits/kids are rude enough that I've banned that show from our house. ;)

 

I realize that this isn't a curriculum, but the reinforcement is still there.

 

Good luck!

--Pamela

[Dana]

so i dont need a separate phonics then right?

 

If she's already reading, then absolutely not.

 

Sounds like your daughter is somewhat like my son (although sounds like she read earlier). My son read Lord of the Rings before we started AAS. I'm quite sure he was horribly mispronouncing words though :)

 

I've had him memorizing the Declaration of Independence. He had a dreadful time saying "usurpations" even after I said it and while he was looking at the word. I spelled it out on the AAS word board with tiles. Then I had him divide it using the syllable division rules (level 2). Then had him sound it out based on rules and he got it!!

 

That's why I adore AAS. My son gets spelling but it also gives him the phonics he really needed. I don't use any additional programs for reading. I do have The ABCs and All Their Tricks as a reference but we only rarely refer to it.

 

AAS will give you the spelling and the phonics you need.

Do start with Level 1 though.

[trying my best]

AAS1

my 5 year old reads in 1st grade level and we started AAS1 with him.

He knew how to read although didnt know that Y has 4 sounds.... and stuff like that.

Even a reading child can benefit from AAS. Start with AAS1 you will not regret.

[italiancookies]

This is great info and it seems that AAS will help with phonics rules Like you said the sounds of Y as well as spelling itself.

 

Anyone know a place to get it cheaper or a discount code for it?

[nmoira]

How is her spelling now? Can she spell cvc words?

 

I was in a similar position with DD the Elder with respect to reading level. We started out with a year or so of copy work (this took care of most one syllable words, and many patterns), then some Sequential Spelling, and ended up using Megawords. She wanted activities mixed up a but, hence the switch. Is think either SS (starting any time) or Megawords (after one syllable words are mastered) would do the trick. We'd tried Spelling Workout at the very beginning, but neither of us saw the point of it.

 

ETA: DD the Elder is a sight reader, but has a good sense of when a word is "wrong."

Edited February 19, 2011 by nmoira

[Tracy]

I am using SWR with my early reader. I understand that it works on the same principle as AAS. It is significantly less expensive than AAS, but it is not as open-and-go.

[pgr]

We have similar problems. Thing 1 taught himself to read phonetically, and at 7 he's an amazing natural speller. He gets mixed up with words like "chauffeur". Seriously.

 

Thing 2 is 5yo and reading at what is probably a 3rd/4th grade level at least, but she seems to have learned to read predominantly by sight. Generally she'll make a stab at new words, but she has a hard time sounding things out. Spelling is also a problem. (Well, not really a "problem" -- I mean, she's only 5!) The biggest problem we've had, though, is that we homeschool through a cyber charter school and we take online standardized tests. Because the K tests for reading are based solely on kids' understanding of phonics and are mostly auditory (after all, they're not supposed to be able to ready yet!), she doesn't score well. She's just about average for her age, test-wise. To see her test scores, you would assume that she's struggling with pronouncing words!

 

I know that you're in a different place, because you're probably finishing first grade while we've not yet started it, but here are some of the things I'm doing for what I'm jokingly calling "remedial phonics." My daughter thought it was babyish at first, but I was able to hide behind the mantle of the school tests and convince her that sometimes we just have to appease others. (You will have to come up with another excuse!)

 

Over the last few months, we've used phonics sliders, which give a good sense of how/why words rhyme, and I make her deliberately sound out each sound before we say the word. (Reading "cat" was no trouble, but I was amazed by how much trouble she had separating the three sounds.)

 

We also do exercises where I say the word and she has to break it into its individual sounds. This is trickier for her, because she's very visual. In total, we do probably less than 20 minutes of phonics a week, so it's obviously not something we're doing lessons about, but it's enough to make a change.

 

Any time she asks me to spell a word, I sound out each letter and ask her what letter makes the sound (assuming that the letters/sounds make sense -- if it's a sound like /er/ I'll say, "The /er/ sound in this word is spelled...")

 

Our local dollar store also carries basic phonics wall posters/charts that can be useful for hints. ("It's like the /o/ in octopus.")

 

I know that none of these are curricula, but I'm finding that she's growing by leaps and bounds in just the past few months. I have a hunch that kids who are already self-taught readers just need to get to the point where the the visual and the audible "click," and I think we're making it. A good spelling curriculum should help with the patterns in words and all the rest, but I don't have one to recommend yet.

 

My only other recommendations are exposure to really good phonics entertainment, if you're not opposed to it. Starfall is fantastic, and even my oldest still enjoys it. It's free, and although they now have an expanded pay site (which we are enjoying), the pay site doesn't add much for phonics. Don't feel compelled to use it. Your daughter would probably enjoy/benefit from level 2 -- Learn to Read. Phonetically, it's probably what she needs, and it's silly enough that she'll enjoy it even though the reading and stories are below her level.

 

I also love the PBS show Between the Lions, if it's available in your area. (If you've never seen it before, you can see clips at http://skylinktest.com/btl.htm; it's about a lion family who runs a library.) Our library also carries the videos of the show. I don't know if you're amenable to TV shows, but each show stresses different phonetic sounds, and it is perfect for her age -- not babyish, not too grown up. The new Electric Company show is also strong on phonics, but some of the skits/kids are rude enough that I've banned that show from our house. ;)

 

I realize that this isn't a curriculum, but the reinforcement is still there.

 

Good luck!

--Pamela

 

 

Out of curiosity, what was your approach with your son? Did you go through phonics (I'm assuming probably not) or spelling with him?

[nov05mama]

AAS1

my 5 year old reads in 1st grade level and we started AAS1 with him.

He knew how to read although didnt know that Y has 4 sounds.... and stuff like that.

Even a reading child can benefit from AAS. Start with AAS1 you will not regret.

 

Thank you for this recommendation! My DS is reading fairly well on his own (completed Headsprout and is reading at maybe a 1st/2nd grade level) and I wasn't sure about whether or not I should start with AAS1 or skip levels...but I also didn't want to skip key concepts that might be in level one.

:thumbup: Thank you!! Now to head to the homeschool store tomorrow :D

[Embassy]

I've have a similar situation with both of my boys. Their phonics/spelling skills are nowhere close to their reading skills.

 

You may want to check out Rod and Staff's Spelling program. It has been a great fit. I'm also taking my younger son through their phonics program. He can read chapter books without difficulty and even sound out some pretty large words, but he is still learning about the silent e. Their spelling program word list isn't too complicated, but it does a great job breaking down the words and analyzing patterns. The activities are varied and really cause my son to think. He was bored with AAS and SS and is enjoying Rod and Staff. Rod and Staff is quite inexpensive too. It is a Mennonite program so there are many Bible references.