Anyone Switched from TOG to SL for High School?

[HSMom2One]

We are currently using TOG and I have to say (once again) that I do love it for my dd. We have moved up from UG to D level and it has been amazing. My plan is to stay with it through 7th grade, at which time we will have completed YR-1 through most of YR-3. For 8th grade I would like to drop TOG in order to do a focused study of our region and government of the United States. As I look ahead to high school though, I am not certain if we will resume with TOG. There is a possibility that we will enroll her in private school, but if we opt to continue hs'ing I want to find out what all of our options are.

 

I will be working part-time to full-time during those years, so part of my hesitancy to stay long-term with TOG is that I will need something that is less teacher intensive. I have always been attracted to SL, and we almost went there a couple of years ago. So SL is definitely an option for HS. The reasons this appeals is that dd loves literature, and I know that SL is a pull out and go program.

 

Has anyone used TOG through D level and then switched to SL for high school? If so, how did that work for you and your student? Did you find that you needed to supplement any subjects to SL to make it more classical?

 

Thanks for any helpful input you may have to offer.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[G5052]

We're involved in paid classes right now, but MFW is my back-up plan because I need something rigorous and independent.

 

We were long-term Sonlight users for K-6, but I've decided not to use it for high school. It still requires a lot of discussion or having the student write out their answers for you to check. My friends who have large families or are otherwise time-pressed find have found this hard to manage, and I know that I couldn't do it. MFW is set up for a once-weekly parent conference with the student and is otherwise independent. That would work for us.

[HSMom2One]

We're involved in paid classes right now, but MFW is my back-up plan because I need something rigorous and independent.

 

We were long-term Sonlight users for K-6, but I've decided not to use it for high school. It still requires a lot of discussion or having the student write out their answers for you to check. My friends who have large families or are otherwise time-pressed find have found this hard to manage, and I know that I couldn't do it. MFW is set up for a once-weekly parent conference with the student and is otherwise independent. That would work for us.

 

Thank you for the tip! I haven't taken a close look at what they offer for high school, but I'll look it over now that you've shared this. We are so fortunate to have the wonderful choices of curriculum!!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[BlsdMama]

Thank you for the tip! I haven't taken a close look at what they offer for high school, but I'll look it over now that you've shared this.

 

 

Yes, do look closely. After using TOG Dialectic level, closely compare the Rhetoric level with Sonlight's high school booklist. I think you'd be very surprised to find what I consider to be a marked difference between the two at that level.

[Mom0012]

I've used SL since pre-k and plan to continue with it at least through core 7. I have heard so many negatives about their high school programs though, I'm not sure we'll continue with it at that point. I'm hoping to, but I will have to take a closer look as we get nearer to 9th grade. SL has said that they are going to reevaluate their high school programs and they may revamp them. But who knows when? As GVA mentioned, I am also seriously considering MFW for high school. I think it would be a great fit for my son.

 

Lisa

[LaurieM]

I've used SL since pre-k and plan to continue with it at least through core 7. I have heard so many negatives about their high school programs though, I'm not sure we'll continue with it at that point. I'm hoping to, but I will have to take a closer look as we get nearer to 9th grade. SL has said that they are going to reevaluate their high school programs and they may revamp them. But who knows when? As GVA mentioned, I am also seriously considering MFW for high school. I think it would be a great fit for my son.

 

Lisa

 

Just a quick note. I've used SL from Core 2 through Core 530 with two students. One is in 1st year of college, the other finishing his last year of homeschool/high school. Honestly, we've had no difficulty with Sonlight's high school level Cores. My ds who is now in college has adjusted very nicely into a rigorous honors program. Sonlight may be different, but I feel it is a very strong program (JMHO, of course!). I'm a firm believer in use what works for your student/family.

[siloam]

Just a quick note. I've used SL from Core 2 through Core 530 with two students. One is in 1st year of college, the other finishing his last year of homeschool/high school. Honestly, we've had no difficulty with Sonlight's high school level Cores. My ds who is now in college has adjusted very nicely into a rigorous honors program. Sonlight may be different, but I feel it is a very strong program (JMHO, of course!). I'm a firm believer in use what works for your student/family.

 

I posed this on her other thread, but I will repeat it here.

 

For the record I do agree that SL is fine for high school, and would go one step farther and say it goes above and beyond what I learned in PS. Take the college credit thing out of the equation and many of my problems go away.

 

With Core 100, History of the US is so light and several of the readers are used in TOG at the Upper Grammar level, so the student might have already read them (Amos Fortune, Free Man, Call of the Wild, From the Mixed-up Files of Mrs. Basil E Frankweiler, My Side of the Mountain, and Sounder my dd has already read). I do own the core 100 notes and have read them so I get how they are dealing with bias and such, but TOG does that at the Dialect level by using two separate texts at grade level. Going to a single lower grade level text and reading it and John's notes....seems like a step back. If the child isn't bothered by that neither would I, but my concern is the child would be board.

 

With Core 200 you still have some of the reader problems, TOG schedules most classic starting in the Dialect level, but not as many as with Core 100. My bigger concern is that it might not have value with many colleges. With TOG you cover the same information, but while you are also covering history, so the student might not get a full history credit, but at least they would get partial.

 

Level 300 is the one I have the least trouble with. I don't recognize most of the readers and they stopped using the digital text, which would have been a problem here.

 

Level 400 I have heard is very political in that it promotes political activism as well as teaching about government. That bugs me. But I would also be again concerned about how the credits would look to your average college. Can you take a partial history credit? There is likely to be some issues with the readers as well. My dd has already read Bud, Not Buddy and I know a couple of the other texts are scheduled in TOG at the D level: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Julie of the Wolves. There might be more I just can't remember if they were at the D or R level in TOG.

 

I would love to hear your perspective, Laurie, especially as someone who graduated kids and have gone through the college application process.

 

In the end I think 100 is the biggest hurdle. Laurie, do you know if anyone has put together a schedule adding a different spine? I know some SL users can be very resourceful.

 

Heather

[Mom0012]

Just a quick note. I've used SL from Core 2 through Core 530 with two students. One is in 1st year of college, the other finishing his last year of homeschool/high school. Honestly, we've had no difficulty with Sonlight's high school level Cores. My ds who is now in college has adjusted very nicely into a rigorous honors program. Sonlight may be different, but I feel it is a very strong program (JMHO, of course!). I'm a firm believer in use what works for your student/family.

 

Laurie -

 

Thanks for commenting on this. I can see my daughter possibly using SL all the way through, and I suspect she would love it, but I don't think it would be the best fit for my son. Still, it is encouraging to hear positive feedback about the high school levels.

 

Did you use all the components, including the LA, at the high school level or did you use a separate program for that? I'm not even sure how SL is different from the lower levels once you get to Core 100 other than there are no longer any read-alouds.

 

Lisa

Edited January 11, 2011 by LisaTheresa

[siloam]

Laurie -

 

Did you use all the components, including the LA, at the high school level or did you use a separate program for that? I'm not even sure how SL is different from the lower levels once you get to Core 100 other than there are no longer any read-alouds.

 

Lisa

 

Lisa,

 

Starting with Core 7 and up the LA is included in the Core IG, but you can still choose to use a separate LA if you wish.

 

Heather

[LaurieM]

Laurie -

 

Thanks for commenting on this. I can see my daughter possibly using SL all the way through, and I suspect she would love it, but I don't think it would be the best fit for my son. Still, it is encouraging to hear positive feedback about the high school levels.

 

Did you use all the components, including the LA, at the high school level or did you use a separate program for that? I'm not even sure how SL is different from the lower levels once you get to Core 100 other than there are no longer any read-alouds.

 

Lisa

 

We did use all the components, including the LA. We also used IEW materials alongside Sonlight's Language Arts.

[LaurieM]

I posed this on her other thread, but I will repeat it here.

 

For the record I do agree that SL is fine for high school, and would go one step farther and say it goes above and beyond what I learned in PS. Take the college credit thing out of the equation and many of my problems go away.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "take the college credit thing out of the equation".

 

With Core 100, History of the US is so light and several of the readers are used in TOG at the Upper Grammar level, so the student might have already read them (Amos Fortune, Free Man, Call of the Wild, From the Mixed-up Files of Mrs. Basil E Frankweiler, My Side of the Mountain, and Sounder my dd has already read). I do own the core 100 notes and have read them so I get how they are dealing with bias and such, but TOG does that at the Dialect level by using two separate texts at grade level. Going to a single lower grade level text and reading it and John's notes....seems like a step back. If the child isn't bothered by that neither would I, but my concern is the child would be board.

I honestly wasn't comparing SL to TOG. My understanding of TOG is too new, I would feel uncomfortable doing a comparison of levels/curriculum. I was only commenting on Lisa's post about the negative comments in regards to Sonlight's high school level Cores. More letting her know that some have used SL at the high school levels with no troubles.

 

With Core 200 you still have some of the reader problems, TOG schedules most classic starting in the Dialect level, but not as many as with Core 100. My bigger concern is that it might not have value with many colleges. With TOG you cover the same information, but while you are also covering history, so the student might not get a full history credit, but at least they would get partial.

I read on your other post on the S/O thread where you stated:

 

 

Level 200 I am fine with, I just question the wisdom of doing a program that is totally focused on a topic that most secular colleges won't recognize. At least with TOG you are covering secular history at the same time.

Actually, Core 200 is very rich in history. My ds took the European History AP after completing Core 200 with no difficulties and we listed the course as European History on his transcript.

 

Level 300 is the one I have the least trouble with. I don't recognize most of the readers and they stopped using the digital text, which would have been a problem here.

 

Level 400 I have heard is very political in that it promotes political activism as well as teaching about government. That bugs me. But I would also be again concerned about how the credits would look to your average college. Can you take a partial history credit? There is likely to be some issues with the readers as well. My dd has already read Bud, Not Buddy and I know a couple of the other texts are scheduled in TOG at the D level: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Julie of the Wolves. There might be more I just can't remember if they were at the D or R level in TOG.

 

I would love to hear your perspective, Laurie, especially as someone who graduated kids and have gone through the college application process.

 

My ds who is currently attending college is majoring in history. He scored very well on the various tests (SAT, SAT Subject tests, APs). We had no difficulties with the application process and ds was accepted into a variety of schools, including upper tier universities.

 

In the end I think 100 is the biggest hurdle. Laurie, do you know if anyone has put together a schedule adding a different spine? I know some SL users can be very resourceful.

 

Heather

 

I really don't know if anyone has put together a schedule using a different spine for Core 100. Sorry!

[siloam]

I'm not sure what you mean by "take the college credit thing out of the equation".

 

My worrying about how colleges might look at 200 and 400, and given so many SL users get into college without problems, obviously I just need to be educated on how list it and give it credit.

 

 

I honestly wasn't comparing SL to TOG. My understanding of TOG is too new, I would feel uncomfortable doing a comparison of levels/curriculum. I was only commenting on Lisa's post about the negative comments in regards to Sonlight's high school level Cores. More letting her know that some have used SL at the high school levels with no troubles.

 

Sorry, wasn't trying to put you on the spot, or really compare them. I didn't word that well. Like I said I think SL is fine for high school, even through it is not at the level of rigor that TOG is. I personally don't think you NEED that level of rigor. If you like it fine, but you don't need it. I used TOG because I tweak everything and it gives me more options to play with, not because I am looking for rigor.

 

My thoughts are more about how to make it practically work when a child might be board or might have read several of the books. If Lucinda chooses not to use the in-depth material for D level then she will drop one of the texts and the coverage of bias, so maybe then stepping into Core 100 would work better.

 

 

I read on your other post on the S/O thread where you stated:

 

 

Level 200 I am fine with, I just question the wisdom of doing a program that is totally focused on a topic that most secular colleges won't recognize. At least with TOG you are covering secular history at the same time.

Actually, Core 200 is very rich in history. My ds took the European History AP after completing Core 200 with no difficulties and we listed the course as European History on his transcript.

 

My ds who is currently attending college is majoring in history. He scored very well on the various tests (SAT, SAT Subject tests, APs). We had no difficulties with the application process and ds was accepted into a variety of schools, including upper tier universities.

 

Good to know! That is what I really was trying to ask about. My question got lost in the whole of my thoughts.

 

If I can bug you a little more, what are your thoughts on 400? When I used to be on SL a lot I don't remember hearing a lot about it. There are probably a lot of people that just don't make it that far. I have only seen one person mention that it was a little preachy, trying to push civic involvement (not talking just voting), so I am not sure that it wasn't biased.

 

Also do you have any thoughts about how much US history is covered in Core 300?

 

We tend to move so slowly through TOG (we are on year 7 of our first history cycle, though we will finish this year), that it is very likely I will have to pull my oldest from what the rest are doing and have her finish up separately. Doing Core 300 her senior year, or doing 300 and 400 for 11th and 12th were two options I considered. Doing the Notgrass one year US history with a separate civics program in 12th is another. And yes I am too much of a planner, but I can't help myself. :D

 

Heather

[LaurieM]

My worrying about how colleges might look at 200 and 400, and given so many SL users get into college without problems, obviously I just need to be educated on how list it and give it credit.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, wasn't trying to put you on the spot, or really compare them. I didn't word that well. Like I said I think SL is fine for high school, even through it is not at the level of rigor that TOG is. I personally don't think you NEED that level of rigor. If you like it fine, but you don't need it. I used TOG because I tweak everything and it gives me more options to play with, not because I am looking for rigor.

 

My thoughts are more about how to make it practically work when a child might be board or might have read several of the books. If Lucinda chooses not to use the in-depth material for D level then she will drop one of the texts and the coverage of bias, so maybe then stepping into Core 100 would work better.

 

 

 

 

Good to know! That is what I really was trying to ask about. My question got lost in the whole of my thoughts.

 

If I can bug you a little more, what are your thoughts on 400? When I used to be on SL a lot I don't remember hearing a lot about it. There are probably a lot of people that just don't make it that far. I have only seen one person mention that it was a little preachy, trying to push civic involvement (not talking just voting), so I am not sure that it wasn't biased.

 

Also do you have any thoughts about how much US history is covered in Core 300?

 

We tend to move so slowly through TOG (we are on year 7 of our first history cycle, though we will finish this year), that it is very likely I will have to pull my oldest from what the rest are doing and have her finish up separately. Doing Core 300 her senior year, or doing 300 and 400 for 11th and 12th were two options I considered. Doing the Notgrass one year US history with a separate civics program in 12th is another. And yes I am too much of a planner, but I can't help myself. :D

 

Heather

 

I think many homeschoolers don't want to spend a whole school year on Civics/U. S. Government so they find a 1/2 year Government program instead. As for the pushing civic involvement, no one at my house came away with that impression.

 

I felt that Core 300 did an adequate job of covering the events of the 20th Century in the U. S., but it is best represented as a 20th Century World History course.