Ancient Lit Study Guides

[RoughCollie]

What do you all use to discuss ancient literature at a 9th/10th grade level?

 

We can read this stuff all day long, but that doesn't mean I have a clue about the deeper meanings in it.

 

I've read Deconstructing Penguins and How To Read Literature Like a Professor, and I've still got no clue about what to do with ancient lit.

 

I don't think merely reading this stuff will be enough. We are using Trisms (and I plan to incorporate TWTM suggestions into that plan if they aren't there already). But I want to be sure this is at least a semi-rigorous study of lit.

 

Do any of you have any suggestions, please?

 

Thank you!

 

RC

[Jane in NC]

...that you search through posts made by Nan in Mass. She does a tremendous job of explaining the WTM (WEM) method of discussing literature.

 

I just could not say it as well.

 

Jane

[kathleen]

Heroes of the City of Man by Peter Leithart is excellent.

[percytruffle]

I second this. We really enjoyed the depth of the discussion this book fostered. Also, Dd used the Beautiful Feet guide to Ancient History Through Literature. We were very pleased with this resource as well. Many of the questions were very in-depth, not merely recall.

[HollyinNNV]

This is a website I have bookmarked to use next year. Looks very helpful.

http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/index.html

[mcconnellboys]

Memoria Press has out a study now to go along with D'Aulaire's book of Greek Myths. It looks good - and pretty involved. I wanted to cover a lot more than just that one book this year, so I opted not to use it, but you might give it a look.

[Janet in Toronto]

Awesome! I'm doing self-study of the ancients (TWTM - 9th grade recommendations) and this site will be a fabulous adjunct!

 

Janet

[Veronica in VA]

Kolbe has study guides and even weekly quizzes for ancient and medieval works. http://www.kolbe.org

 

Hope that helps,

 

Veronica

[Denise in NE]

We will be using the Greenleaf Guide to Ancient Literature (which, unfortunately, doesn't have an answer key:confused: ) with Peter Leithart's book.

 

Denise in NE

[RoughCollie]

Thank you all for your help. I bought the Beautiful Feet book just now.

 

Also, I looked on the Teaching Company website and there are lots of courses about ancient literature and philosophers. Most look beyond the ken of my boys, but for those of you who are studying for your own delight, they may be worthwhile. Our library has a lot of them.

[Linda in NM]

Me, too...sounds like we're on the same path!

[RoughCollie]

Eliana, I would avoid study guides, except that I don't have the confidence that I can do this without them. It has been about 25 years since I took literature courses in college and I don't want to screw this up.

 

I did read Nan's posts about it and I better go back and print them out so I can refer to them when I really need them!

 

I have another problem in that one of my DS has Nonverbal Learning Disorder and the other has been tested by the PS and is thought to have Asperger's Syndrome. These conditions mean the boys will have a hard time doing critical literary analysis, according to the school psychologist, so I have to figure out a way to make it meaningful and understandable to them.

 

I don't have time to learn all this stuff before I teach it. Basically, I will be one step ahead of the kids.

 

I appreciate your suggestions and I will get some of these books to read over the summer. Thank you for taking the time and effort to discuss this.

 

RC

[Linda in NM]

If you can, RC, get the Teaching the Classics videos...I was a literature major in college (also more than 25 years ago!), and I am not confident (and my son is gifted with language and math...)

[RoughCollie]

Super idea, Linda. Thank you.

 

If you can, RC, get the Teaching the Classics videos...I was a literature major in college (also more than 25 years ago!), and I am not confident (and my son is gifted with language and math...)

[Chris in VA]

RC, I can't remember if you had previously looked at Omnibus--did you reject it already? It puts everything in a nice, tidy package, and the work is only logic level, but still introduces some pretty heavy works--makes them less scary and more understandable!

Just a thought. We used Omni 1 and 2, tweaking by taking the secondary works out, and adding a few of our own choices. Ds is also very close to Aspie, tho doesn't test as one.

Anyway, there's plenty about Omni here on the threads.

Love WTM way, too, but you have to keep up more.

[Maverick]

I don't know anything about this book yet--it is assigned for my ds's great books study next year (they are doing ancients) but I'll throw it out there as something to look at. The Concise Oxford Companion to Classical Literature. I'll be buying it this summer to look over before ds starts his class in September.

[gardenschooler]

Eliana, thanks for your recommendation of Homeric Moments: Clues to Delight in reading the Iliad and the Odyssey (from another thread). I looked at it yesterday, and it looks fantastic. I'll definitely be using that.

 

I'm also planning on getting Teaching the Classics, and I know that will help. I"ve been going over WEM, and that has helped, tremendously.

 

I understand your point about study guides, but what if we can't use a whole book (like the Homeric Moments) for each and every work, but we really *need* lots of hand-holding? I'm just wondering if study guides on a few things wouldn't be helpful for me - especially on the plays. I need something shorter than a book but more detailed than SparkNotes. Would something like the Smarr literature guides be good for this, or is there something else you (or anyone) can recommend?

 

Thanks.

[RoughCollie]

I did check out TOG, Omnibus and Trisms and what feels like a million other programs, and I decided to go with Trisms. I am trying not to second-guess myself. I've looked at so much curricula now that I don't even recall why I chose Trisms over the other suggestions I received.

 

I've feel like I've entered an entirely new galaxy. Just when I am familiar with lots of K-8 curricula and know what I like, I've been dumped into a maze again with this high school stuff.

 

RC, I can't remember if you had previously looked at Omnibus--did you reject it already? I.

[RoughCollie]

First, Eliana, no apology is necessary. I did not think your post was brusque, judgmental or unhelpful.

 

I definitely do not want a textbook approach. I am doing my best to avoid textbooks altogether. I've seen plenty of them now, especially since some of my kids went to parochial school, and I dislike them mightily.

 

What I want is to make sure that my kids get out of the story whatever it is that they are supposed to get, as educated people. That begs the question, by whose standards, I realize that.

 

I like the Great Conversations idea, but I'm not sure any conversation I would be having about a book, play, story, or poem would be so great.

 

I've got TWEM in my shopping cart at Amazon. I think I'd better buy it and read it.

 

I ought to read the materials I will assign the kids, too. I haven't read any of it in decades and that may be part of the problem. How can I have confidence about teaching something or discussing it when I can't remember hardly anything about it. I mean the most I remember are a few snippets of information and how much I loved studying literature in college.

 

That's one of my goals -- well, not a goal since I can't control the outcome -- but I would love it if my kids could be as enthusiastic about great literature as I was. I remember taking World Lit in high school and being certain it would be boring. Boy, was I surprised at how much I loved it.

 

The Voice Lessons books are also in my Amazon cart. I think I'll see if they have them at the library. Mostly I need to read the material and some books about it. Then maybe I'll be all set to have Great Conversations.

 

Thanks for your help, Eliana.

 

RC

[RoughCollie]

Speaking of character lists, Eliana, do you think they are important? I see them in every literary guide I've looked at. Is it important for the kids to make their own character lists, do you think? It seems that would take the joy out of reading and discussing the material, to me, unless one is a natural list maker and likes that sort of thing.

 

I love to read and read voraciously, and I've never made a character list in my life.

 

What is your opinion?

 

Thanks,

RC

 

 

For basic background information, you could try Wikipedia - here's their article on the Iliad (with a link to a complete character list!).

[RoughCollie]

Thanks for the suggestion, Maverick. I'll add that book to my list to check out at the library.

 

RC

 

The Concise Oxford Companion to Classical Literature. I'll be buying it this summer to look over before ds starts his class in September.

[percytruffle]

This will sound weird, but, imho, the less confidence someone has in his/her ability to 'understand' literature, the more s/he should eschew study guides. If one doesn't trust one's own reactions and interpretations, then the viewpoint the "authority" gives will drown out one's own instincts and there will be no direct connection to the book itself.

 

Eliana, I understand what you're saying here and agree with it to a point and in theory, but for the sake of conversation I'd like to throw out another perspective. While it is true that a person's opinions and conclusions about a book can be overshadowed by the "authority" of a guide (or even a professor), isn't it usually the case that the ideas brought to light by the guide may indeed be a springboard for the reader rather than an end in themselves? Furthermore, once the reader has used several guides, and hence trained themselves to see into the works more deeply through the hand-holding the guides provide, then the reader becomes more proficient at reading and analyzing the works without the use of a guide. Beginning to analyze lit in 9th grade, earlier for some and later for others (even into adulthood for many), without the framework of some sort of guide or instructor to lead one through analysis is a bit like jumping into the deep end of a pool without a life jacket and without knowing how to swim. Once the skill of analysis has been practiced through use of assistance, then the reader is more likely to have built up the confidence needed to "trust one's own reactions and interpretations". Certainly, many moms, not just students, find themselves in this situation.

 

I know that from my own background as an artist, one of the concepts that rings true and clear even now that I am experienced is: nothing is created in a vacuum. Entering into lit analysis without a foundation of learning how to analyze may work for some, but for most I think it appears to be a vacuum, an intimidating void of knowledge about how to begin. It can be paralyzing.

 

I do think that as you say, with confidence one can wean themselves of guides and other such tools and rely on their own interpretations. Many are not at that stage yet. Some may not ever be. Our brains function differently. My dh can analyze a very complex engineering problem, but lit analysis is another thing altogether and as smart as he is I'm sure he would prefer a little hand-holding, and a guide. :)

 

Just some food for thought.

[LisaNY]

We used WTM/WEM to help us with our Great Books study. We started halfway through the school year, so we only got to read The Iliad, Odyssey, Epic of Gilgamesh, Codes of Hammurabi & Moses, Sophocles - Oedipus Trilogy, & Aeschylus I - Oresteia, Agamemnon, The Libation Bearers & The Eumenides.

 

I would encourage you to not be intimidated by the study of the Ancients. Just relax, and delve in! *Experience* them for the sake of experiencing them, without worrying so much about analysis & having to arm yourself with various and sundry analytical resources. Think of it as a great meeting with the minds and ideas of the past. Read, discuss, take notes, & write summaries of what you read - absorb, absorb, absorb! If you hit a snag, and can't figure out what is happening, sparknotes are always helpful. The Teaching Co. lectures add a nice dimension to your studies.

 

My older dd and I had a lot of fun with what we covered, and learned so much. I am really looking forward to reading the Ancients again with my younger dd. :001_smile:

[Michelle in MO]

TWTM makes me wish I had pursued that course! Since I don't feel confident enough to do the Great Books completely on my own, I chose Omnibus. However, I do agree with both Eliana and Percytruffle on this subject: on the one hand, I need the "hand-holding," so Omnibus is a great springboard to further discussions. On the other hand, I'm beginning to feel confident enough in my own readings and understanding of the material that I want to divert from the "script," so to speak.

 

For example, we just completed A Midsummer Night's Dream, and although the discussions were good, in my opinion it was not nearly sufficient time to really delve into the material, as I had wanted to. Now we're doing Henry V, and this time I plan to divert more and do more readings out of the material. In fact, I would almost prefer four full weeks for each Shakespeare play---reading long passages aloud, discussing the material point-by-point. So much can be gained through that.

 

This has been a fascinating discussion, everyone! Eliana---good to see you back!

[vmsurbat]

Gardenschooler and I got started on musing about learning and teaching rhetoric level studies over on the K-8 Board, but I want to continue some of these thoughts here since I've been thinking about the "literature angst" many of us (including myself) experience.

 

Ever since my freshman lit class at university where the Prof. saw Sherlock Holmes's pipe on the mantel as a phallic symbol, I've been disinterested in finding "the deeper meanings" in a book. That changed a bit when I saw a lecture where someone brought in E.A. Poe's background as a starting point for discussing the Raven. Knowing more about Poe brought greater insight into understanding (connecting with) his poem. But then again I was challenged when I had my daughter using the much-touted The Deadly Monster guide as part of a “worldview” course. It seemed to both us of that the author of this book was bringing his own agenda to the use of the book of Frankenstein, interpreting it narrowly from his point of view, and not really looking at the book as a whole or as perhaps, knowing the background of the author, as she intended. We both felt the Deadly Monster book was more about “what” to think, than “how” to think, rather ironic for a book on developing a worldview.

 

I, personally, would avoid 'study guides' like the plague - I think they get in between the reader and the book, and teach a student (and a teacher) to take the easy way out rather than really encountering the text. [but that is my ingrained prejudice!]

 

What I think can be helpful and inspiring is to read books which give background information on the text and its time period and/or scholarly analyses (I always try to read several so I don't get locked into one person's reading of the text and lose my own connection to it.)

 

I have just come to this same conclusion--that the big help for *me* is knowing more about the author, his times and the issues taking place than trying to determine the author's use of symbolism, tone, theme, etc. One approach (the first) focuses on the ideas; the other, it seems to me, focuses on the method of conveying those ideas.

 

Just this past week we watched a movie that we knew nothing about beforehand; it was slow-moving, but full of ideas that left you thinking about the consequences of spying and the nature of privacy. The whole movie became even more intriguing when we learned that it was filmed and released shortly after the Watergate spectacle. This seems to be a good instance of History informing ideas.

 

I saw this type of approach in action when visiting one of my daughter’s college classes this past fall. She was taking world lit as part of a 3 course consortium (World Hist/World Lit/Art Apprec). On the day we were there, the students were finishing Anc. Greek literature and were going to be tackling Chinese poetry next. In preparing the students for their readings, the professor went over the Chinese culture and history of the times—he said that knowledge would help them make sense of the poems. He did not go over the typical structure of Chinese poetry, rather he was priming the students to grasp the ideas inherent in the poems. Another instance of history knowledge informing ideas.

 

 

((RC))

If one wishes to follow the model in TWTM, or Mortimer Adler's Great Books approach, or the model of at least some of the traditional classical approaches... then the 'teacher' is the *book itself*, and a study guide is an obstruction not at aid. The Great Conversation isn't enhanced by having an intermediary, imnsho - it's a journey and a discovery process, and it really can't be packaged, imnsho and shouldn't be (again, imnsho).

 

TWEM outlines some very specific steps which can get one off to a great start and build confidence - it has very generalized discussion questions, but those can be a good starting place. It's not how I do it, but it is *so* clear and accessible.)

 

Imho, all one needs is the text itself, an open mind and heart, and an inquiring spirit - read the book your child is reading, sit down together and start talking... begin by throwing out an open-ended, but specific, question [One example I remember was: Asking 'Why did the Joads leave their farm?' won't produce a good discussion - the answer 'Because they lost their farm' is pretty straight forward. But asking "Were the Joads responsible for being evicted?' can trigger an insightful discussion.], keep your copies of the book handy, and see where your exploration takes you. You don't need any answers, or background material, or fancy terminology...

 

I’ve often thought that none of the authors of the Great Books (or even the Good Books) wrote with the idea of future generations studying their works with a written study guide in hand. And I don't think most intended young teens from all walks of life to be tackling them either. They were written to be read and appreciated it by a fairly select audience: those able to afford the luxury of schooling.

 

For example, I know many people point to the American Founding Fathers as a fairly recent example of young people having a classical education and yearn to model the same education with the same results. I do not think that is possible. Many of the Founding Fathers came from rich families. Many did not have to work at "trades" or jobs; many *did* have the responsibility of overseeing their estate (even if the daily handling of affairs was entrusted to a steward); many experienced the death of close family members (parents, siblings) at young ages due to medical practices; many became heads of their families at young ages upon a father's death---all those "realities of life" played a large part of their education *and* their interaction with the books they read. For example, those classical books concerned with the nature of governing would have been immediately applicable as they were or expected to govern estates and local government (even if not as an independent nation). The relatively few educated (beyond literacy) were expected to serve in leadership capacities.

 

 

I think what we get out of a book is *directly* connected with what we bring to a book. Years ago, I read a very insightful comment that helped me to grasp this. If you read the sentence: "King David ruled in Jerusalem," one person's knowledge about Jerusalem might be the dot on an atlas page, another person's might be the sights, sounds, and street names if he had visited there. This is one reason that the old-fashioned “finishing” of an education was the tour around the world—to expand one’s knowledge of other places, other peoples, other cultures, other histories, to make connections.

 

What am I getting at? Mmmm. Good question!:) I'm really trying to say I agree with Eliana that we need to approach the books themselves, to see what they say to us. Also, what we (as adults) will get out a reading a book will be quite different than what our teens get out it. And if a particular book can say nothing to us (or our child), then it is probably wise to move onto a more accessible book, gain more life experience, knowing that we can always return at a future time when we have more to contribute and gain from “the conversation.”.

 

 

We are on holiday-mode here (its Easter weekend in Montenegro), so I have plenty of time to actually write my perusings…. More later.

 

I appreciate the iron sharpening iron, ladies!

[Linda in NM]

I wish I'd seen Deconstructing Penguins in college--I always felt that I could never figure out what the professors wanted from me in terms of analysis, so I usually wound up with historically based analyses--should have been a history major :-)...

[vmsurbat]

Beginning to analyze lit in 9th grade, earlier for some and later for others (even into adulthood for many), without the framework of some sort of guide or instructor to lead one through analysis is a bit like jumping into the deep end of a pool without a life jacket and without knowing how to swim. Once the skill of analysis has been practiced through use of assistance, then the reader is more likely to have built up the confidence needed to "trust one's own reactions and interpretations". Certainly, many moms, not just students, find themselves in this situation.

 

Entering into lit analysis without a foundation of learning how to analyze may work for some, but for most I think it appears to be a vacuum, an intimidating void of knowledge about how to begin. It can be paralyzing.

 

 

((RC))

From my perspective there is no such thing... if a guide could give it to you, then there wouldn't be any point in reading the book itself. ;)

 

Yes, you will struggle and fumble at first, but that's part of the process, but if you push through that, you'll find that these books really do speak for themselves. Yes, there will be layers you won't get to in a preliminary reading, but that is what makes these the Great Books, that there are so many levels and that every time you return to one, for the rest of your life, there will be more to discover, more to understand.

 

...and there is such a difference between 'oh this is what so-and-so says this is about' and the amazing way the pieces fall into place as you piece together an understanding of your own... because *that* you will own, from that your mind will stretch, your understanding of life, the human condition, and yourself will expand... and you will never get that from a second hand interpretation.

 

We had some *really* stupid ideas, but no one stopped us or told us we were wrong, we kept questioning ourselves and each other and pulling out our books and looking things up, and debating the meanings of words, and, eventually we came to a greater understanding. That was the only transcendent moment of the year, and many of the session felt frustrating or even disappointing...

 

I got more out of those discussions that I could ever have gotten from a rigorous guided study with quizzes, and essays, and teacher-led class discussions. I felt a sense of ownership and connection from that struggle that I couldn't have gotten another way, imho.

 

SWB does such an amazing job of sweeping away all the unnecessary

and, to many, intimidating, complexities and showing her readers how accessible this all is, really. She has some neat suggestions for approaching literature on different levels, which might make going it alone feel more structured and less scary.

 

Let me summarize what I think Percytruffle asks, and what Eliana answers:

 

PercyTruffle: What about those of us who need a guide to accomplish lit. analysis?

 

Eliana: It is not so much about Lit. Analysis (ie. Finding out the right answers), but about starting the conversation.

 

Do I have the essence here? Eliana, am I correct in that for us who feel inadequate (to put it mildly), you are suggesting that a book like The Well-Educated Mind, gives us the needed tools to get started? And that the real “learning how to engage†comes by actually engaging?

 

Also, in my own experience, the angst-filled struggle isn't particularly about "beginning the engagement." Rather, that there is a huge difference between figuring out how to learn this stuff myself, and how to lead my children into it. In the first scenario, I’m the learner—I can handle that even if I don’t feel so comfortable or “good†at it; in the second scenario, I’m the teacher trying to teach something I don’t have a handle on--which is what makes a lit. guide very appealing. What say you to this situation?

[percytruffle]

From my perspective, a better analogy than swimming, would be giving a baby crutches to "help" him/her learn to walk. It gets in the way of doing what will come naturally, if given a fair chance. The uncertainty is *part* of the process, and it is okay. I think it has all been made so needlessly complicated!

 

 

 

 

 

I think that once one has a solid connection with a text, that the experts' books and articles and lectures can be fascinating and very rewarding, but I think they should come second, not first.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it's been a very interesting conversation. I had no idea I was in the "majority". I think that's probably a first for me ;)

 

I like your analogy of the baby with the crutches, and as I said originally, I do agree with you in theory and just wanted to converse a bit about some thoughts I had floating around in my head after I read your post. Your approach is certainly the ideal and the functioning of it is idealistic. Sometimes and in some circumstances the idealistic approach works, but perhaps not always. I suppose then the alternate viewpoint is the one of the realist. Most people probably fall somewhere in between.

 

I see it as the difference between the intuitive and sensor. One can process information in leaps and bounds, making those big connections easily, the other needs concrete facts upon which to hang those little bits of information uncovered, he needs to go from the know to the unknown. The former would most likely excel at the idealist approach, and the latter would prefer the "crutches" of the realist.

 

I guess, having come from an education that was not classical in nature, I am voicing my own inadequacies about the need for a crutch of some sort (although personality-wise I am an intuitive) in order to help myself stand strong enough to be able to pull my own dc up as well. I'm sure they could "learn to stand" of their own accord without me, but I'm not sure the motivation would be there without a guide/coach/cheerleader/facilitator. After all, this is my vision I am pulling them up to, not their own. Unfortunately, many youth today, if left to their own devises, would be perfectly happy "crawling" from one computer game to the next. If I want them to join the great conversation I (or someone else)have to take the lantern and lead the way down a path that I have never traveled before. It is not only a road less traveled by most, but a road never traveled yet by me.

 

Don't worry, I have not taken your comments as offensive in any way! I have enjoyed the conversation and hope that my remarks have been taken in the same light.:D

 

I do understand your Luther analogy and the zeal with which you approach this subject. I know that light in your eyes, I have seen it in my own where art subjects are concerned. I am playing devil's advocate here by drawing out the other side of the educational theory in an attempt to learn and to inform others. Thanks for letting us all pick your brain!

[percytruffle]

Something occurred to me and I just wanted to add that I don't give study guides to my dc in order that the guide leads them through the book, I don't usually give them to my dc at all. I use them as a reference in order to foster conversation and develop possible themes for papers. Even then, I only use parts of the guide and I often use parts of several different guides for the same book realizing that the authors of the guides bring to light different aspects of the book. Lastly, I don't use a guide for every book, usually the ones I am least familiar with. Perhaps this sheds a bit more light on my perspective.

[Nan in Mass]

In an effort to procrastinate (supposed to be writing progress reports - ug), I finally read this thread. I didn't earlier because I don't use lit guides. I think the thread needs a new title - To use or not to use literature guides GRIN.

 

I just wanted to add my two cents worth because I have a very different background from Eliana, but I, too, am successfully doing great books the way she is, sans guides. I had very little literature in high school, and not much in college. I like to read, but I read to escape, and haven't read most of the classics. In other words, I'm a learner, not a teacher. I have found, though, that being a learner along with my children rather than a teacher hasn't been a problem. I keep thinking I must be missing something or blind to something that the rest of you are searching desperately for. Is it that I don't need the books to lead to a particular place or support a particular world view? Is it that I'm a literal, concrete person who is totally uninterested in what Sherlock Holmes's pipe might represent to someone else? Is it that I can't imagine getting my non-academic athletic boys to answer the irrelevant-sounding questions in the few literature guides I've looked at? Is it that I've never been interested in discussing my reading so I don't care whether my children understand the books in the same way as the rest of the literary world? I keep thinking it must be a combination of those things that lets us do TWEM so happily, and that perhaps all the richness and growth and pleasure that we're seeing in great books is really only getting us to a starting point that you guys are all already past. I don't know. It is hard to believe, as I hear my children arguing over whether the makers of Star Trek had Homer in mind when they invented Klingons or whether they were thinking of the Japanese warriors, or explaining how they would set Everyman in their outerspace D+D game or modern LA, or arguing over whether an odd way of saying something in The Mabinogeon was just a translation blip or whether it really was a strange custom. Those things seem so important, and literature guides don't have anything to do with that, whereas TWEM questions and their own observations lead them there. Ok, maybe we didn't discuss what people usually discuss when reading those works, but does it matter? These are great works. They are still read today because the authors are GOOD at getting their point across. You'll probably get that point. And if you don't, who is to say your point isn't just as valid, especially for your time and place. Why does it have to mean the same thing to everyone? Do you love a painting any less if you discover the things it says to you aren't the things the painter had intended? Why can't that be true of books? I agree that knowing something about the historical background can greatly enhance the experience, but TWEM gives you that.

 

Have you tried TWEM before deciding it is too hard? Ok LOL, now I feel like I'm ranting, too.

 

Eliana, thank you for your posts. For the first time, I'm beginning to see what people mean by "the great conversation". I've been ignoring the whole classical education/great books bit because things have going nicely without it, but maybe we do belong in that camp, afterall.

 

-Nan

[LisaNY]

BRAVO, Nan! By George, I think she's got it!! :001_smile:

 

Lit. guides and the analyses of others have their place, but one of the reasons that I homeschool is to find out some of this "stuff" on our own. Nan, you exemplify what it is I *try* to do.

 

This is one of the reasons that I'm returning to WTM for the rest of my homeschooling journey - to make our own discoveries and draw our own conclusions.

 

Nan, thank you once again for putting my feelings into words. Boy, would I like to meet you IRL someday. You are definitely one of the coolest people I "know". :001_smile:

[Linda in NM]

Ok--I'm hooked...I'll get the WEM...something to read in Utah while I watch the boys play hockey...

[percytruffle]

But Nan, I'm not disagreeing with you here nor in any way discouraging others from following your magnificent lead, but TWEM is a guide: The Well Educated Mind, A Guide to the Classical Education You Never Had.

 

I know I am splitting hairs a bit here, but isn't TWEM just your guide of choice? I don't want a guide that discusses the irrelevant meanings of Sherlock Holmes' pipe either, just a little something to give me a framework. TWEM wasn't even around for most of our hs trip. :) If it had been I certainly would have used it.

 

By the way, thanks for all your wonderful insights you have shared about your lit analysis journey. Your words have been and continue to be invaluable.

[Nan in Mass]

I'm using it to study scifi and other things that aren't even mentioned in TWEM. I think it differs from other guides in that it provides a more universal method of studying a work, any work, instead of questions and background for specific books. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like when people say "literature guide", they mean a guide to a specific work.

 

What sort of framework are you looking for? What do you mean by framework?

-Nan

[percytruffle]

I'm using it to study scifi and other things that aren't even mentioned in TWEM. I think it differs from other guides in that it provides a more universal method of studying a work, any work, instead of questions and background for specific books. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like when people say "literature guide", they mean a guide to a specific work.

 

 

 

I think they want a guide as in "something to help them know how to study the lit". TWEM is the very best kind of guide because as you say, it "provides a more universal method of studying a work", but it also gives specific info about specific works. There was certainly a hole in the market for it and SWB has filled that hole exceptionally well.

 

I am not looking for any guide at the moment. I only have one ds at home still and I am almost done with him. TWEM is on my shelf as of this past Christmas and will continue to be a source I use for myself in the future, but it will probably not be my only source for study. I like to pick the brains of others, knowing full well that I do not posses within me all "the answer to life the universe and everything"!

[Nan in Mass]

then of course I think you are right; TWEM is the best kind of guide.

I'm probably not even making sense anymore. I'm packing my middle child to go to France, scrambling to finish off the school year, trying to pack us to leave for a few months... and definately feeling insecure about life in general. I should know better than to post when I'm procrastinating. I always do it too hurridly. That can't be how you spell that. It is amazing how many times I write words that I use all the time for the first time when posting. Sigh.

I always read your posts. They are always interesting and helpful. : )

-Nan

[percytruffle]

Wow Nan, you've got a lot on your plate! I so know what you mean about the spelling and use of words. Best of luck with all of your family's upcoming ventures!

[Nan in Mass]

Thank you!

[mktkcb]

Look at Smarr Publishers http://www.smarrpublishers.com/C2405.html . Sounds like you need something very straightforward and easy to use. This is their anc. lit course. It includes writing lessons and vocab. along with the book analysis. It is extremely easly to use. Just open up and go. It has been great for my math/science analytical type who loves to read but hates to pick apart what she reads.

[Nan in Mass]

Good! Have fun! And remember, if it seems a bit thick and unreadable in spots, just skip to one of the genre sections, like the drama one, and try applying the questions to a Shakespeare play or something. : )

[Linda in NM]

Will do--and I'll have my laptop with me, so I'll be sure to post if I have any questions :-)...The book is coming on Monday. (I have a personal relationship with Amazon...)

[Nan in Mass]

We probably all do. Them and Alibris. Now we need someone to invent spacelses storage for our books. : )

[Linda in NM]

My husband keeps shaking his head when he sees all the books upstairs--my books share the room with his exercise equipment...