Does anyone NOT like RS math? I need the WHYs...

[smilesonly]

Aside from price and time required? What about with an older dc just starting new to RS?

Thanks in advance....

:001_smile:

[Paintedlady]

Maybe I'd feel differently if we'd started with it from the beginning, but the pages were too filled with small print and diagrams. I love how it teaches math, but my eyes/brain need more white space on a page. I think it's just a personal quirk of mine that might not bother others, but I couldn't get past it. I do believe it's an excellent program though, based on the few months we used it.

[lovinmomma]

**I** loved it but my children HATED it. Seriously. Hated. It. They didn't jive with the songs, claps, taps, etc. They just weren't in to it. It wasn't the way that their little brains works.

[smilesonly]

Maybe I'd feel differently if we'd started with it from the beginning, but the pages were too filled with small print and diagrams. I love how it teaches math, but my eyes/brain need more white space on a page. I think it's just a personal quirk of mine that might not bother others, but I couldn't get past it. I do believe it's an excellent program though, based on the few months we used it.

 

What do you mean by "started with it from the beginning?" As in using RS as your dc's first math curriculum, or did you start them at a level higher than A?

Thanks!

 

**I** loved it but my children HATED it. Seriously. Hated. It. They didn't jive with the songs, claps, taps, etc. They just weren't in to it. It wasn't the way that their little brains works.

 

What ages were your dc, that they didn't like the songs, claps, and taps?:D My dc would run in the opposite direction from songs, claps, and tapping!:lol:

 

Still....things can be skipped, which is why I ask your dc's ages. You can PM me if you'd rather-or just ignore my prying.;)

Thanks!

[lovinmomma]

They were 5 and 4. I tried again later on and they freaked out at the thought of it. Most people really love it, but my kids just didn't click with the way they teach. MM is going much better, but we haven't been doing it long.

[siloam]

**I** loved it but my children HATED it. Seriously. Hated. It. They didn't jive with the songs, claps, taps, etc. They just weren't in to it. It wasn't the way that their little brains works.

 

I have never opened my song CD, just hated the idea of using songs. They would have either hated them or loved them and then I wouldn't hear the end of it. Just never opened it.

 

We never did claps or taps either. :D

 

RS is on the expensive side, and it is a lot to manage. Some people love scripts and some hate them. I tend to hate them, but found that once I got what was going on I could put it into my own words and not use the script.

 

Heather

[smilesonly]

They were 5 and 4. I tried again later on and they freaked out at the thought of it. Most people really love it, but my kids just didn't click with the way they teach. MM is going much better, but we haven't been doing it long.

 

Thanks!

 

I have never opened my song CD, just hated the idea of using songs. They would have either hated them or loved them and then I wouldn't hear the end of it. Just never opened it.

 

We never did claps or taps either. :D

 

RS is on the expensive side, and it is a lot to manage. Some people love scripts and some hate them. I tend to hate them, but found that once I got what was going on I could put it into my own words and not use the script.

 

Heather

 

I can see that happening either way, actually! I think I would choose to leave it unwrapped, too!

 

Thanks, Heather...

[guateangel]

RS is on the expensive side, and it is a lot to manage.

 

Not to hijack this thread, but what do you mean by 'a lot to manage'? I agree in the sense that there are a lot of cards, manipulatives, games, pieces, etc. Is this what you mean?

 

I have only used RS as a math curriculum (with a little MM) so I have nothing to compare it to. I'm undecided if I like it, as we are moving so slow since dd is having a hard time grasping anything to do with math. Not sure if RS is to blame or if she is not a 'mathy' kid.

 

ETA: we skipped over the taps, claps and songs...

[Crimson Wife]

I love it in the primary grades but do not care for the higher levels. There have been a bunch of threads on this topic, do a search on the forum.

[Paintedlady]

What do you mean by "started with it from the beginning?" As in using RS as your dc's first math curriculum, or did you start them at a level higher than A?

Thanks!

 

 

We started with the transitions lessons and then moved into level D. We'd been using Math U See before that and we've gone back to a combo of MUS and Math Mammoth now.

 

Just wanted to say that we have the games kit (cards & book) and we enjoy playing those as a supplement. I think the games can tie in nicely with almost any curricula.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Paintedlady

[Closeacademy]

I hate scripted programs. I want the facts so that I can present it in my own words.

 

My dd didn't like the worksheets and my younger dd just didn't understand what I was trying to teach.:001_smile:

[siloam]

Not to hijack this thread, but what do you mean by 'a lot to manage'? I agree in the sense that there are a lot of cards, manipulatives, games, pieces, etc. Is this what you mean?

 

I have only used RS as a math curriculum (with a little MM) so I have nothing to compare it to. I'm undecided if I like it, as we are moving so slow since dd is having a hard time grasping anything to do with math. Not sure if RS is to blame or if she is not a 'mathy' kid.

 

ETA: we skipped over the taps, claps and songs...

Yes I mean all the manipulatives. Though now that I look back it might have been because I had 3 kids in level B. Not only was I doing one of the most manipulative intensive levels, but I needed most of them daily in three different places. I ended up buying a set to drawers to store it all in.

 

Now if only my oldest could find where she put her calculator...:glare:

 

Heather

[smilesonly]

I love it in the primary grades but do not care for the higher levels. There have been a bunch of threads on this topic, do a search on the forum.

 

Thank you. I have done a lot of searching.;) I usually try to search before I post something which many have already answered. In my searches(which I can only go back so far as there are so many on RS) I only came across the issues of money,time needed, and like you mentioned-those not preferring it for older grades.

 

 

We started with the transitions lessons and then moved into level D. We'd been using Math U See before that and we've gone back to a combo of MUS and Math Mammoth now.

 

Just wanted to say that we have the games kit (cards & book) and we enjoy playing those as a supplement. I think the games can tie in nicely with almost any curricula.

 

Ah-got it. Thanks for clarifying!

I can see us getting the games-maybe-my dc was looking over my shoulder yesterday as I was watching some RS games being played on You Tube and was not thrilled.

[Sew happily ever after]

As far as the cost goes: it is reasonable if you are able to reuse it. And really, compared to other curriculums it's not that high of a cost. i really like how RS has worked with my oldest 2. they really have their facts down and i contribute that to RS. the games are fun but sometimes i get really sick of playing them. you are going to have manipulatives with any good math curriculum...it helps younger students to work from manipulatives as it shows them concretely why a problem works the way it does. I don't think it's fair to young children to make them work everything out on paper without actually seeing it. Seeing it is what creates pictures in their minds. That's what Dr. Cotter told me on the phone when I was having a very hard time with one of my children mastering things in RS. Yes, Dr. Cotter actually called me! She knows what she is talking about! eventually they move away from manipulatives. They won't use them forever! oldest daughter is in level E and we hardly ever pull out manipulatives.

 

That said, RS just wasn't clicking in my 7yo's mind! She struggled every day. Forgot almost everything from last year. I realized that she needed to work on 1 concept at a time. RS does more of a spiral approach. She needed lots of review. We have switched her to MUS. I thought MUS was expensive compared to RS but there are fewer manips to keep track of :) DD7yo loves the DVD teacher and we just work through lessons at her pace. makes much more sense to her. BUT I still like RS the best, it just didn't work for her unfortunately!

[smilesonly]

As far as the cost goes: it is reasonable if you are able to reuse it. And really, compared to other curriculums it's not that high of a cost. i really like how RS has worked with my oldest 2. they really have their facts down and i contribute that to RS. the games are fun but sometimes i get really sick of playing them. you are going to have manipulatives with any good math curriculum...it helps younger students to work from manipulatives as it shows them concretely why a problem works the way it does. I don't think it's fair to young children to make them work everything out on paper without actually seeing it. Seeing it is what creates pictures in their minds. That's what Dr. Cotter told me on the phone when I was having a very hard time with one of my children mastering things in RS. Yes, Dr. Cotter actually called me! She knows what she is talking about! eventually they move away from manipulatives. They won't use them forever! oldest daughter is in level E and we hardly ever pull out manipulatives.

 

That said, RS just wasn't clicking in my 7yo's mind! She struggled every day. Forgot almost everything from last year. I realized that she needed to work on 1 concept at a time. RS does more of a spiral approach. She needed lots of review. We have switched her to MUS. I thought MUS was expensive compared to RS but there are fewer manips to keep track of :) DD7yo loves the DVD teacher and we just work through lessons at her pace. makes much more sense to her. BUT I still like RS the best, it just didn't work for her unfortunately!

 

Thanks for sharing, and I'm glad you found something that is a better match. I realized long ago, that both my dc *and* myself needed to like certain curricula-especially math. If *I* couldn't teach/guide/help, then it was pointless. There really is no such thing as a one size fits all....

[guateangel]

I realized long ago, that both my dc *and* myself needed to like certain curricula-especially math. If *I* couldn't teach/guide/help, then it was pointless.

 

I needed to hear this. Thank you!

[smilesonly]

I needed to hear this. Thank you!

 

I'm glad that comment helped!:grouphug: For me, it has been so true, but hard to surrender and not feel like a failure.

[PeterPan]

It really depends on what your situation is when you're looking at transitioning into RS. If a dc has been doing another method successfully, don't change. If they have been struggling with another method and you're wanting to change over, the question is what the struggle is, whether RS will be a good match to fit that struggle, and whether the amount of effort it takes to change will be worth the amount of time he has left in the program. For SOME kids, that transition to RS, even in a later level (like D), can make a HUGE difference. For some kids it isn't worth it.

 

RS is not your general, run-of-the-mill curriculum designed to fit all kids and all learning styles. It has a whole list of not gonna haves. (color, tons of spiral, etc.) There are things that it has but that might not be enough for some kids (fact drill, etc.). It assumes a dedicated teacher who has the time to play the games. It assumes the dc learns well auditorily and will retain using the games. My dd didn't retain facts no matter how many games we played. We did levels A-D and finally had to move on. I LOVED certain aspects of RS, but it fits some kids and not others. Like I said, it's not your generic curriculum trying to match all learning modalities and needs in one lesson. But for the kids for whom it's a good fit, it can be a really good fit. And the foundation it built, the way it taught my dd to do (and be fast at) multi-digit subtraction, these are all good things. Her understanding of negative numbers and fractions is solid from it. It just didn't have all the elements my particular dd needed.

 

So rather than reading about a lot of people's experiences, I'd suggest spilling the beans on your own situation and let people ponder through whether it might be a good fit or not. The simplest way to decide if it will fit is to print off the sample lessons. It's EXACTLY LIKE the sample lessons. Sit down and do them! If he hates them, well then there's your sign. The games are negotiable. You can also flex RS a bit and use it other ways. For instance maybe you have a kid who needs color or tons of spiral, and you're busy with a toddler BUT you want that foundational RS teaching. Well you can get the original format Activities for the ALAbacus which is arranged topically and use it with a curriculum that fits your dc and daily needs better. So the dc is happy, math is getting done, and when you have time you can pick up and do that extra instruction. You have to make it work for you, rather than the other way around. You can get just some of the manipulatives (which come with instructions for use) and use them with your regular curriculum to step it up a notch. Depending on your topics and level, people could have suggestions on that. The abacus works particularly well with the base 10 picture cards and the place value cards. For fractions I love their hardwood fractions puzzle. You can get just one of the decks of game cards for $4-5 and use it to play the games included. There are lots of ways to get what you like from RS without making the whole change where the whole thing doesn't fit.

[FaithManor]

See, I've used Rod and Staff for all of the elementary years and we've thrived, but I never implemented it the way it was intended I guess. Someone mentioned above about claps, taps, chants,songs, or something. Until about fourth grade, I never even purchased a teacher's manual and after 3rd, only bought them for quick grading purposes.

 

I guess I've always taught the new material with my own explanations and then usually assign the odd number problems. I never purchased their flashcards, timed tests, or manipulatives so I had no idea that it was time intensive! LOL, you talk about being in the dark for having used it for about six years!!

 

I have always switched out at the end of 6th grade and went right to Basic College Mathematics for 7th but again, my kids inherited dh's math mindedness so BCM works for them as they don't need much drill.

 

I will say this, ds is showing signs of being bored to tears with R & S this year so I may be making the switch to Singapore.

 

The Ha-Ha is on me! I never knew that the teaching was supposed to take so long! I did know that about Saxon and avoided it for that reason. Snicker, snicker...I'm not much help, am I?

 

Faith

[siloam]

See, I've used Rod and Staff for all of the elementary years and we've thrived, but I never implemented it the way it was intended I guess. Someone mentioned above about claps, taps, chants,songs, or something. Until about fourth grade, I never even purchased a teacher's manual and after 3rd, only bought them for quick grading purposes.

 

I guess I've always taught the new material with my own explanations and then usually assign the odd number problems. I never purchased their flashcards, timed tests, or manipulatives so I had no idea that it was time intensive! LOL, you talk about being in the dark for having used it for about six years!!

 

I have always switched out at the end of 6th grade and went right to Basic College Mathematics for 7th but again, my kids inherited dh's math mindedness so BCM works for them as they don't need much drill.

 

I will say this, ds is showing signs of being bored to tears with R & S this year so I may be making the switch to Singapore.

 

The Ha-Ha is on me! I never knew that the teaching was supposed to take so long! I did know that about Saxon and avoided it for that reason. Snicker, snicker...I'm not much help, am I?

 

Faith

Faith,

 

They are asking about Right Start Math, not Rod and Staff math. But you don't know how many times I have started to answer a question on Rod and Staff when they abbreviated it RS instead of R&S and then at the last moment had it dawn on me they are not talking about what I am using, so don't feel bad. :grouphug:

 

Heather

Edited October 25, 2010 by siloam

[FaithManor]

Oh good gravy! I didn't even catch that.

 

So, it was right start...whew, then I'm not completely clueless about my own curriculum choice. LOL

 

Faith

[smilesonly]

So rather than reading about a lot of people's experiences, I'd suggest spilling the beans on your own situation and let people ponder through whether it might be a good fit or not. The simplest way to decide if it will fit is to print off the sample lessons. It's EXACTLY LIKE the sample lessons. Sit down and do them! If he hates them, well then there's your sign. The games are negotiable. You can also flex RS a bit and use it other ways. For instance maybe you have a kid who needs color or tons of spiral, and you're busy with a toddler BUT you want that foundational RS teaching. Well you can get the original format Activities for the ALAbacus which is arranged topically and use it with a curriculum that fits your dc and daily needs better. So the dc is happy, math is getting done, and when you have time you can pick up and do that extra instruction. You have to make it work for you, rather than the other way around. You can get just some of the manipulatives (which come with instructions for use) and use them with your regular curriculum to step it up a notch. Depending on your topics and level, people could have suggestions on that. The abacus works particularly well with the base 10 picture cards and the place value cards. For fractions I love their hardwood fractions puzzle. You can get just one of the decks of game cards for $4-5 and use it to play the games included. There are lots of ways to get what you like from RS without making the whole change where the whole thing doesn't fit.

 

Spill my beans,huh?:lol:

I'm not ready!!:tongue_smilie:

Seriously, I do apologize if I am annoying some of you. But...In my defense, isn't "reading about other people's experiences" what a hs message board is all about?;)

 

I loathe profiling, and therefore deliberately leave out the gender/ages when asking some questions.

 

FWIW-I worded this thread the way that I did, as I am truly curious to know the "whys" some don't like RS. Over the past year when I come here to read about math, the same suggestions are always made. RS, MEP, MM,SM,Miquon and CLE. Rinse and repeat.;)

 

I've tried the above except RS and MEP. I hear over and over how great RS is, so I was curious to know why some don't think it to be great.

 

I have seen the samples and the games, actually have a friend IRL using RS. I think it may have worked for us a while ago, but if we use it, it will be in the manner you describe above-along with another curriculum-or no curriculum.

 

Thanks for your input!:grouphug:

[PeterPan]

Well you can spill your beans when you're ready. I repped for them a few years at conventions, so I make prettygood RightStart coffee with people's beans. :)

 

Since you've read through all the old threads, you've already heard the usual complaints. Actually I'm not sure you have. How far back to threads go when you search the boards? A better way is to do a google search using "RS math site:welltrainedmind.com" and see what you get. That way older posts will show up too.

 

Anyways, there are moms for whom RS is not a good fit and kids for whom it's not a good fit. Like I said, it's not like say BJU math that flexes in a lot of directions. A BJU math lesson will have something for all learning modalities in it. With RS you're stuck. But if it has what you need to feel comfortable teaching or a presentation that clicks with your dc, you're golden!

 

My dd is just enough ahead of the curve that she always inferred the material in the lessons but still needed the practice. She needed more visual, both in presentation and pleasure. She needed more stories and context. She needed more (fun) practice. But she's not easy to teach with ANY curriculum. They don't have to love something for it to have been good for them. We didn't love SWR, but it worked great for getting her reading and better than anything else would have at the time.

 

What RS gives you is another way to present the concepts, a way that is spelled out to you as the teacher so you can read the script and present it. It goes into enough detail with the thought process that some kids who previously didn't get the math with other methods will get it with RS. It does a good job of going from concrete to mental, with plenty of steps and direct lines. It doesn't introduce extraneous visual points for kids for whom this would be distracting (say remembering the colors of rods instead of the quantities, etc.). But all these things can just as easily be down points for kids who DON'T need those things. Then it's just a matter of whether you streamline to make it fit your kid or move on. As you've seen on the boards, there are so many good options, there's always somewhere else to move on.

 

Now I'll say something you HAVEN'T seen in this thread that I think is good advice. If you've tried 10 math curricula and your kid is under 8 (or 10 or 12), the answer isn't the math curriculum. At that point I would start looking at visual or auditory processing, neuropsych testing, etc. to see what is up, whether there's a learning issue. Even bright kids can have them. It's called being 2E.

[Snowfall]

Well...I don't know if I should reply to this thread or not, since sometimes DD really enjoys it and sometimes she hates it. She's a difficult kid to teach anything. I can tell you what we like and don't like about it, and maybe that will help.

 

First of all, DD does not like the games. She wasn't particularly keen on the tapping or the songs, either. She also hates the abacus (although she did like it at first), the tally sticks, and the base ten picture cards. She did like the place value cards the first few times we used them, but she never liked building more than 2 or 3 numbers with them. She did eventually tire of using them at all, though. I know that makes it sound like there's probably not much left :glare:, but those are just manipulatives, of course. The methods seems to work pretty well for her. We're able to adapt most of it to use manipulatives she actually does like. For instance, we often use c-rods and base ten blocks (for some reason, the blocks are okay, but not the picture cards).

 

We use other things for practicing addition and subtraction facts, because while she knows how to add large numbers using the abacus or the base ten blocks, she doesn't get enough practice with basic facts doing RS. This is probably because she hates the games - if she liked the games, she'd get practice that way. We play Sum Swamp, do a little MEP, and pull worksheets from other places for facts practice.

 

Things I don't like about RS B (this is the only level we've used, so I can't comment on the others):

 

It doesn't cover standard measurement, which I think ought to be taught in 1st grade, but which is really no biggie at all.

 

I hate how it doesn't cover subtraction at all until near the end of level B. I want addition and subtraction to be seen as two sides of the same coin, and while I know that RS introduces it in terms of addition, waiting until kids have been adding 6 digit numbers to explain it doesn't make sense to me. We just used other resources for that.

 

I don't like the way it spirals. I like that it doesn't touch on 6 things in one lesson, but I don't like how you might cover money in one lesson, then not again for 15 lessons. It doesn't teach a topic like money to mastery over several consecutive lessons. It teaches one lesson, then another 2 weeks later, then another 3.5 weeks later (not exactly, but you get what I mean).

 

I don't like the expectation that kids can see the abacus in their minds. My kid can't. End of story. She acts like I'm crazy when I ask her to do that.

 

Really, all of those things are very, very minor. I personally don't think most of the lessons take any longer than any other math curriculum would. The exceptions are the Cotter Tens Fractal, which we didn't do. You'd need to cut apart like 1000 triangles to do that. The expectation is that you'll be in a group, but...I have ONE student. Generally, though, the lessons are great for one student, they don't take too long, they build a fantastic understanding of place value, and they leave my DD feeling very accomplished when she realizes she is able to add several 3 to 4 digit numbers, as she did today for a lapbook on Brazil (she was adding up all the identified species in Brazil :D).

 

So those are the likes and dislikes we have. Hopefully that will help at least a little. I have asked almost the same question, only about why people dislike it after level C. :tongue_smilie: