Gwenhwyfar Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 My nephew was suspended for a week for bringing two advil to school. :banghead: (i'm not angry at you - the bang head smiley just looks that way lol) this goes into the same bucket with all the other buggered up applications of zero intelligence policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) Socialism is not equal to a dictatorship. They are not interchangeable phrases. In terms of drinking and so forth most socialist countries are FAR, FAR more lax and give FAR more power to families than in the US. They do not give far more power they simply have lower national drinking ages. I personally think 21 is absurd but don't tie this to any special rights granted in Socialist nations. Were the drinking age 21 they would be just as intrusive as in this nation. Socialism according to Churchill is "a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" there is little to laud about it and granting rights to families certainly does not fall into that category. Edited October 22, 2010 by pqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret in GA Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 My dd is a pom, and it's made very, VERY, clear to them, that you don't ever put yourself in a position where it even appears that you might be drinking. Kids have been suspended from the squad for being at a party where alcohol is present, even if they aren't drinking. This girl might not have been drinking, but I'll bet she knew full well that it that picture would have been unacceptable to the administration. If that were my daughter I'd be fully supportive of the school's decision. :iagree: Did she post the photo herself to facebook? If she did then she knew it how it looked and did it any way... In that case I think the school reacted normally. However, if someone took the photo of her, she had no idea how the photo made things appear, and this person sent a photo she didn't know existed to the school... then I think they likely overreacted. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 They do not give far more power they simply have lower national drinking ages. Oh, come on, pqr! You know as well as I do that most Germans give their kids alcohol practically from the get-go. Being able to buy your own alcohol is not the same thing as a drinking age like we have in the US, where giving your kids alcohol can land you in jail. I was not lauding or promoting socialism in any way. If we were on facebook, I would not be its fan. What I have a problem with is confusing socialism with total government control. That's not what socialism is or looks like in most socialist countries. You know, I know it. That is the ONLY point I was making. If you want to call the school a name, then call it a fascist school. I just want people to get the terminology right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I can't tell you how horribly livid I would be if I was that mother. It seems pretty invasive for the school to be using personal pics from a family wedding to oust a student, and even more so to still follow through after a legitimate explanation (one I'm not sure they are due, frankly) from the PARENTS? I would think the "innocent until *proven* guilty" theory should certainly apply to this kid (it applies to heinous criminals, doesn't it?). Ridiculous. Using the school's logic, she should be arrested for public nudity as well...I can't see whether she's holding the beer, or WHETHER SHE'S DRESSED. Idiotic...school bureaocrats fail, IMO. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 If you want to call the school a name, then call it a fascist school. I just want people to get the terminology right. If this was your intent, then I misread your post and agree with you. Fascist, National Socialist, Communist, potentially over the top but I see where you were heading. I would stick them with the moniker of bureaucratic, obtuse, holier than thou, takes a village type....but I do see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 If this was your intent, then I misread your post and agree with you. Fascist, National Socialist, Communist, potentially over the top but I see where you were heading. I would stick them with the moniker of bureaucratic, obtuse, holier than thou, takes a village type....but I do see your point. I'm curious. Why is it such a terrible thing that the school has a policy that prohibits athletes from engaging in illegal activity? It's against the law for them to drink, buy cigarettes, and take drugs. The school is simply saying that if they get caught participating in these illegal activities, they will be punished. I'm not getting why that is such a problem. This girl might not have done anything illegal, so it seems a little extreme, but she certainly was intending to appear that she was drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I'm curious. Why is it such a terrible thing that the school has a policy that prohibits athletes from engaging in illegal activity? It's against the law for them to drink, buy cigarettes, and take drugs. The school is simply saying that if they get caught participating in these illegal activities, they will be punished. I'm not getting why that is such a problem. This girl might not have done anything illegal, so it seems a little extreme, but she certainly was intending to appear that she was drinking. Again, she didn't take the picture, she didn't post it on her facebook. Her mom said it was among *hundreds* of wedding photos on her other daughter's facebook. If you look at the whole photo at :23, you can tell she is holding a cup and it's the other lady holding the beer. It's not bad to have a policy prohibiting illegal activity by athletes. It's bad to not to use common sense when applying that policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 If this was your intent, then I misread your post and agree with you. Fascist, National Socialist, Communist, potentially over the top but I see where you were heading. I would stick them with the moniker of bureaucratic, obtuse, holier than thou, takes a village type....but I do see your point. I agree, I would label it bureaucratic nonsense. Fascism might be over the top, but calling it socialist is a misunderstanding of that term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Again, she didn't take the picture, But she was posing for the picture. It isn't "fair" but these kids ALL know that any picture can show up on FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I'm curious. Why is it such a terrible thing that the school has a policy that prohibits athletes from engaging in illegal activity? It's against the law for them to drink, buy cigarettes, and take drugs. The school is simply saying that if they get caught participating in these illegal activities, they will be punished. I'm not getting why that is such a problem. This girl might not have done anything illegal, so it seems a little extreme, but she certainly was intending to appear that she was drinking. It's not illegal under certain circumstances for a minor to have a limited amount of alcohol. It's not illegal for a minor to "transport", aka carry, alcohol from point A to point B. It's not illegal for a minor to be in the presence of alcohol or cigarettes. And again, the girl did not intend for anything to "appear" a certain way in the photo. Someone else's bottle got in the way of the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 But she was posing for the picture. It isn't "fair" but these kids ALL know that any picture can show up on FB. She didn't post the photo. Her adult sister did and most likely tagged her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 But she was posing for the picture. It isn't "fair" but these kids ALL know that any picture can show up on FB. But in her mind I'm sure it was innocuous. How many photos from weddings have you seen with people crossing their arms and pretending to drink? If you took enough photos at one of our family parties, you could probably catch a kid taking an adult a drink or holding a drink for someone. That doesn't mean the kids were drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) But she was posing for the picture. It isn't "fair" but these kids ALL know that any picture can show up on FB. Let's be fair. It was a family wedding-she is the bride's sister-she was in presumably hundreds of photos. Cousin "Betsy" gives her a hug and says "Smile" while Uncle "Bob" snaps a shot of them together. This kid, thinking of her school's policy before all else should refuse to pose with her cousin/sister's friend/next door neighbor until the beer is hidden or she smiles as she has been doing all day long knowing that she hasn't actually done anything wrong. If she was the Maid of Honor and the bride wanted a photo of her wedding party toasting at dinner and the other, older girls all had champagne and she had water in her glass should she be summarily dumped or should the school investigate further? Do you dump 20% of a football team because there is a photo of them taking communion at church? The point is that the school overreacted and won't give the kid a fair hearing or listen to the parents. If they can get everyone in and prove that she was illegally drinking that is one thing. So far that doesn't seem the case. This wasn't on school property, wasn't at a school sponsored event, and didn't appear to negatively impact her academic or athletic performance. But they are willing to label her and potentially impact her college admissions over this without any due process. That is neither fair nor right. Edited October 22, 2010 by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 But in her mind I'm sure it was innocuous. How many photos from weddings have you seen with people crossing their arms and pretending to drink? If you took enough photos at one of our family parties, you could probably catch a kid taking an adult a drink or holding a drink for someone. That doesn't mean the kids were drinking.Maybe my experiences with local teens is coloring my opinion. Drinking is totally out of control here. So are drugs. I don't see much smoking. The girls on dd's pom squad are a good bunch this year. Last year, they were not. Several had major drinking issues. One is in rehab. A couple others probably should be. So when I see a cheerleader messing around with a beer bottle near her mouth, I don't think innocuous, I think red flag, trouble ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Using the school's logic, she should be arrested for public nudity as well...I can't see whether she's holding the beer, or WHETHER SHE'S DRESSED. Idiotic...school bureaocrats fail, IMO. :iagree:Rediculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Maybe my experiences with local teens is coloring my opinion. Drinking is totally out of control here. So are drugs. I don't see much smoking. The girls on dd's pom squad are a good bunch this year. Last year, they were not. Several had major drinking issues. One is in rehab. A couple others probably should be. So when I see a cheerleader messing around with a beer bottle near her mouth, I don't think innocuous, I think red flag, trouble ahead. I know many communities have problems like this-hence the policies. However, there still need to be a presumption of innocence and common sense applied. You can't judge how much trouble is ahead without knowing the girl in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) I'm curious. Why is it such a terrible thing that the school has a policy that prohibits athletes from engaging in illegal activity? It's against the law for them to drink, buy cigarettes, and take drugs. The school is simply saying that if they get caught participating in these illegal activities, they will be punished. I'm not getting why that is such a problem. This girl might not have done anything illegal, so it seems a little extreme, but she certainly was intending to appear that she was drinking. Little extreme when the girl had a photo taken at a wedding and had done nothing illegal? Little extreme? It is quite simply nuts. I agree to standards (but have seen precious few among some teams of cheerleaders at the higher levels) and I agree that illegal activity should be punished but what the school did was wrong, utterly and completely. Edited October 22, 2010 by pqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Little extreme when the girl had a photo taken at a wedding and had done nothing illegal? Little extreme? It is quite simply nuts. She was posing in a photo in a way that deliberately made it look as if she were drinking a beer. If you carry a box into the airport with "Explosives" written all over it, you would expect security to be slightly unhappy with you when you tell them the box is empty, and you were JUST KIDDING! Wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 In our area, one school district kicked out a group of cheerleaders for being at a party (police involved and made the local news) where underage drinking and drugs were present. Just the thought of being at the party brought the allegations. Girls were suspended and kicked out ASAP. No parents complained, 'tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 .are they actually saying "sorry parents, we think you're lying" ?? Parents routinely lie for their children to school and other officials. When I lived in Montana the parents in the town did the kids school projects. It was an open secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 She was posing in a photo in a way that deliberately made it look as if she were drinking a beer. If you carry a box into the airport with "Explosives" written all over it, you would expect security to be slightly unhappy with you when you tell them the box is empty, and you were JUST KIDDING! Wouldn't you? Except that carrying that box into the airport is actually an offense in and of itself as I understand regulations these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenhwyfar Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 .are they actually saying "sorry parents, we think you're lying" ?? Parents routinely lie for their children to school and other officials. When I lived in Montana the parents in the town did the kids school projects. It was an open secret. Some parents lie for their children - not all. what happened in your town sucks ~ kids aren't gonna learn much from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenhwyfar Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 In our area, one school district kicked out a group of cheerleaders for being at a party (police involved and made the local news) where underage drinking and drugs were present. Just the thought of being at the party brought the allegations. Girls were suspended and kicked out ASAP. No parents complained, 'tho. you're describing a very different situation there though... this wasn't a bush party ~ it was a family wedding, with mom & dad present. the girl posed for a goofy photo (or whatever) that, as per the explanation from her mom, was misinterpreted by admin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenhwyfar Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Let's be fair. It was a family wedding-she is the bride's sister-she was in presumably hundreds of photos. Cousin "Betsy" gives her a hug and says "Smile" while Uncle "Bob" snaps a shot of them together. This kid, thinking of her school's policy before all else should refuse to pose with her cousin/sister's friend/next door neighbor until the beer is hidden or she smiles as she has been doing all day long knowing that she hasn't actually done anything wrong. If she was the Maid of Honor and the bride wanted a photo of her wedding party toasting at dinner and the other, older girls all had champagne and she had water in her glass should she be summarily dumped or should the school investigate further? Do you dump 20% of a football team because there is a photo of them taking communion at church? The point is that the school overreacted and won't give the kid a fair hearing or listen to the parents. If they can get everyone in and prove that she was illegally drinking that is one thing. So far that doesn't seem the case. This wasn't on school property, wasn't at a school sponsored event, and didn't appear to negatively impact her academic or athletic performance. But they are willing to label her and potentially impact her college admissions over this without any due process. That is neither fair nor right. well said. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenhwyfar Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 If you took enough photos at one of our family parties, you could probably catch a kid taking an adult a drink or holding a drink for someone. That doesn't mean the kids were drinking. haha - my folks have an awesome photo of me at 5 years old looking for all the world like i was chugging a beer. :D (apparently i liked the taste and was trying to 'get the drips out', they said.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 She was posing in a photo in a way that deliberately made it look as if she were drinking a beer. And it's been pointed out over and over again that she was NOT posing with the beer bottle. Someone else's bottle, closer to the photographer if you look at the size perspective of it compared to her face, got in the shot by accident. *goodness, maybe everyone that has mentioned this is on Perry's ignore list* :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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