Unbelievable...

[Corraleno]

So you do think that Latin = zombie class.

 

That's like saying apples = oranges. My DH spent years studying Latin in school and hated every. single. minute. of it — he does not in any way consider his education to be superior just because he studied years of Latin. For him zombi film course > Latin. For someone who loves classics, Latin > zombi film course. I don't think one course is inherently better than the other, it depends entirely on what a student's interests, aptitude, and plans are. For someone majoring in marketing, popular culture courses probably are superior to Latin for that particular student.

 

IMO, the measure of a course should be whether it challenges students to think about things in new ways, provokes thoughtful analysis and discussion, and leads to increased understanding the of the world we live in. There's no reason why a course on the origin, evolution, symbolism, and social implications of the zombi meme in popular culture over the last 100 years couldn't meet those criteria. The whole concept of zombis was introduced to the US in the 20s — in the middle of the US military occupation of Haiti. Portraying Haitians as primitive, cannibalistic believers in black magic and sorcery was politically useful at the time. Did you know that Zora Neal Hurston studied zombis and vodoun in Haiti as an anthropology grad student in the 30s? Her hunch that zombis were produced pharmacologically rather than magically was confirmed some 50 years later by a Harvard ethnobotanist. George Romero was quite explicit about the political content and symbolism in his zombi movies, there is plenty of "meat" there for class discussion and analysis. Michael Jackson's zombi-themed Thriller video is considered the most important and influential music video of all time, and symbolized Jackson's "rebirth" as a superstar solo artist. There are so many subtexts available within the zombi meme: colonialism & slavery, post-apocalyptic survival, resurrection, cannibalism & contagion, the idea of humans being turned into mindless slaves by evil/government/corporate greed/communism/whatever, the idea of a person being separated from his soul yet still living (e.g. as explored by Philip Pullman), etc. IMO, examining these sort of themes in film is no different from examining them in, say, 19th century British literature. Personally, I find it fascinating that zombis are currently such a huge focus in contemporary culture, and I think a course exploring that could be every bit as challenging and valuable as a course in Latin.

 

Jackie

Edited September 12, 2010 by Corraleno

[LibraryLover]

Oh, Jackie. Did you just mention Micheal Jackson here? (I was going to say, "You did *not* just mention Micheal Jackson here?...but I thought that phrase might be too pop culture. lol What about "Oh no, you didn't!" ? )

 

 

At any rate, there are a lot of people thinking Jackson is all fluff and porn and to bring him up just shows how interested in *classics* some people on "This is a classical board!" are not. :D

 

We really need a Zombie smilie. Why all the hate on Zombies, TT?

 

Look. Two. Two mints in one:

 

www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=jane+austen+zombies&cid=13452882603685441394&ei=g0aMTNDbGIXqwwX91_xE&sa=title&ved=0CAgQ8wIwADgA#p

Edited September 12, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Tea Time]

That's like saying apples = oranges. My DH spent years studying Latin in school and hated every. single. minute. of it — he does not in any way consider his education to be superior just because he studied years of Latin. For him zombi film course > Latin. For someone who loves classics, Latin > zombi film course. I don't think one course is inherently better than the other, it depends entirely on what a student's interests, aptitude, and plans are. For someone majoring in marketing, popular culture courses probably are superior to Latin for that particular student.

 

IMO, the measure of a course should be whether it challenges students to think about things in new ways, provokes thoughtful analysis and discussion, and leads to increased understanding the of the world we live in. There's no reason why a course on the origin, evolution, symbolism, and social implications of the zombi meme in popular culture over the last 100 years couldn't meet those criteria. The whole concept of zombis was introduced to the US in the 20s — in the middle of the US military occupation of Haiti. Portraying Haitians as primitive, cannibalistic believers in black magic and sorcery was politically useful at the time. Did you know that Zora Neal Hurston studied zombis and vodoun in Haiti as an anthropology grad student in the 30s? Her hunch that zombis were produced pharmacologically rather than magically was confirmed some 50 years later by a Harvard ethnobotanist. George Romero was quite explicit about the political content and symbolism in his zombi movies, there is plenty of "meat" there for class discussion and analysis. Michael Jackson's zombi-themed Thriller video is considered the most important and influential music video of all time, and symbolized Jackson's "rebirth" as a superstar solo artist. There are so many subtexts available within the zombi meme: colonialism & slavery, post-apocalyptic survival, cannibalism & contagion, the idea of humans being turned into mindless slaves by evil/government/corporate greed/communism/whatever, the idea of a person being separated from his soul yet still living (e.g. as explored by Philip Pullman), etc. IMO, examining these themes in film is no different from examining them in, say, 19th century British literature. Personally, I find it fascinating that zombis are currently such a huge focus in contemporary culture, and I think a course exploring that could be every bit as challenging and valuable as a course in Latin.

 

Jackie

 

I have made my arguments and you have now countered. This is good, so much better than simply attacking my motives on the subject. Excellent support of your viewpoint here.

 

So again...

 

That is JMHO, and I am entitled to it. Stop telling me it is wrong when your (not your personally but generally) whole point is that no one's opinion is ever wrong.

 

Now. This thread is starting to feel like a zombie movie to me.

 

I am all alone.

They are surrounding me.

 

Yes, the metaphor definitely can be useful. ;)

 

It has been fun, guys!

 

Take care out there, and watch out for the boogie man. I hear he still gives those zombies a run for their money! :D

Edited September 12, 2010 by Tea Time
I'm losing entire words now... must be getting late.

[Corraleno]

...if choices have to be made (and they do), then this type of stuff in a curriculum should be limited. Fluff is all too abundant. Really.

But you have no way of knowing that the course on zombi films is fluff. Maybe it's taught by an awesome professor who integrates history, literature, film, sociology, anthropology, and cultural analysis in a way that really challenges and stimulates students. And there may be parents who would be equally horrified to discover that their kids wanted to spend their hard-earned tuition money on an "irrelevant, dead language" like Latin that wouldn't add anything to their employment prospects, when they could have been taking accounting courses, kwim? ;)

 

My point has been all along that paying for this is in college is probably not the best use of resources and would become completely unnecessary with a good education. You are doing it already and tuition free!

Well, anyone can learn pretty much any humanities subject "tuition free," by reading and researching on one's own. So why have liberal arts colleges at all? And if the argument is that "popular culture" is so simplistic and shallow that anyone with a "good education" can understand it without effort, then I think there's a whole deeper layer of analysis that's being missed. As an anthropologist, I would even argue that one's own culture is often the most difficult to analyze, precisely because people do take it at face value and assume there is nothing deeper.

 

Jackie

[LibraryLover]

I heart anthropology and anthropologists. :bigear:

[Corraleno]

Oh, Jackie. Did you just mention Micheal Jackson here? (I was going to say, "You *did* not just mention Micheal Jackson here?...but I thought that phrase might be too pop culture. lol What about "Oh no, you didn't!" ? )

At any rate, there are a lot of people thinking Jackson is all fluff and porn and to bring him up just shows how interested in *classics* some people on "This is a classical board!" are not. :D

LOL, I have to say I'm not a Michael Jackson fan, but I do think it's interesting that he chose a zombi theme when he decided to reinvent himself as a performer, plus the video was directed by John Landis and really was hugely influential. I was just trying to throw out some interesting zombi cultural references, so folks wouldn't think it was all just drooling ghouls looking for brains in B movies. :lol:

 

Can I reclaim my classical cred if I whinge about how zombi is properly spelled without an "e," even in the plural, since it's derived from an African word and doesn't use English pluralization conventions? :D

 

Look. Two. Two mints in one:

www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=jane+austen+zombies&cid=13452882603685441394&ei=g0aMTNDbGIXqwwX91_xE&sa=title&ved=0CAgQ8wIwADgA#p

I thought the idea for Pride & Prejudice & Zombies was brilliant, but the execution (haha) not so much. And now there's Sense & Sensibility & Sea Monsters, Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Killer, etc. I'm sure zombis will soon be just as "overdone" as vampires, and there will be a new set of monster-memes.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Now. This thread is starting to feel like a zombie movie to me.

I am all alone.

They are surrounding me.

 

Yes, the metaphor definitely can be useful. ;)

 

It has been fun, guys!

 

Come baaaaaaack, we need braaaaaaaiiiiins.....:lol:

 

Jackie

Edited September 12, 2010 by Corraleno

[LibraryLover]

LOL I am terrible about seeing the obvious. Zombi it is!

 

I am also a sucker for anyone who mentions Zora Neal Hurston. :)

Edited September 12, 2010 by LibraryLover