Interesting discussion in NYT on declining academic standards at universities.

[spradlin02]

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/08/22/why-are-college-students-studying-less

 

What's your view on why students study less?

Edited August 23, 2010 by spradlin02

[swimmermom3]

One reason would be technology. Think how much time is saved in researching when you can utilize the internet as well as the library or using a word processing program versus typing. On the flip side, technology offers numerous distractions both in the classroom and outside it.

 

Financially, college "appears" to be more affordable and kids are less aware of the sacrifices parents are making and are out of touch as to just how much of their future the heavy debt-load is going to cost them. I studied much harder in grad school where every penny came out of our living budget. Just my brief 2-cents' worth.

[Guest]

I read all the opinions, and each has some element of truth in it. I wonder, though, if there's also some kind of reaction or burnout after kids graduate from high-pressure high schools with full AP loads. I remember reading a book about Whitman High, regarded as the best public school on the West Coast. The author followed a group of students in their senior year and into college, where most found the going easy after the horrible pressure of their last high school year. The guy who got into Harvard found he didn't need to make straight A's, could get a few B's here and there without a problem, and began playing Frisbee golf and other things he never had time for in high school.

[FaithManor]

I think that even an academically rigorous institution is less pressure than high school and some kids just let loose after the crazy environment from which they just graduated.

 

I went to college in the Mid-late 80's and never studied that much, got high grades, and went to a private university that rated only just a few spots below the Ivy leagues. It was actually much easier for me because my time was my own, the work was interesting, the professors more personable and helpful than any of my high school teachers had been, and the quality of curriculum plus lecture was just so much superior that it was a breeze compared with the dismal teaching of the high school I attended. I am sure there are many kids who are pleasantly surprised in the same way I was and therefore have to spend much less time hitting the books.

 

I also think that technology does play a factor. DD just does not have a concept of how hard it was to type a 15 page research paper on a typewriter and get those foot notes in there correctly never mind the correcting of errors! My research papers took more time to type, format, and such than it did to do the research and raw writing. Word Processing programs have made mincemeat of that nose-grinding process.

 

Plus, a lot of colleges are teaching "study skills" classes for freshman and this might make the average student more efficient. We didn't have any of this when I was in college....I didn't need it because I was a very efficient studier and blessed with a wonderful memory (can't say that now post-four kids) but I knew plenty of students who could have really used a class on how to get it done.

 

Faith

[Mergath]

I haven't been in school since '08, but from what I saw, it was sort of a vicious cycle. The majority of students arrived at college woefully ill-prepared for the coursework, so professors have been gradually dumbing everything down to avoid failing four-fifths of the class. Even during the five years I was there, the material seemed to get easier and easier. And, of course, doing work at what I would consider a ninth-grade level doesn't take too much time, so students had tons of free time to sit around on facebook. Many of them failed anyway, btw. And those of us that did have working brains could zip through the studying in a few minutes.

[Mejane]

I haven't been in school since '08, but from what I saw, it was sort of a vicious cycle. The majority of students arrived at college woefully ill-prepared for the coursework, so professors have been gradually dumbing everything down to avoid failing four-fifths of the class. Even during the five years I was there, the material seemed to get easier and easier. And, of course, doing work at what I would consider a ninth-grade level doesn't take too much time, so students had tons of free time to sit around on facebook. Many of them failed anyway, btw. And those of us that did have working brains could zip through the studying in a few minutes.

 

Yes. Makes one wonder - just how easy does it have to be? :glare:

[Mergath]

Yes. Makes one wonder - just how easy does it have to be? :glare:

 

I've begun to wonder if most professors wouldn't have an easier time just starting everything over with kindergarten. :glare:

[3littlekeets]

The fact that teaching evaluations play a great deal into tenure and promotion at many Univs. these days, and provosts are pushing for "full classes" and popular courses and professors -- that doesn't surprise me. Just look at ratemyprofessor.com.

[Guest]

[quote name=FaithManor;1978115

I also think that technology does play a factor. DD just does not have a concept of how hard it was to type a 15 page research paper on a typewriter and get those foot notes in there correctly never mind the correcting of errors! My research papers took more time to type' date=' format, and such than it did to do the research and raw writing. Word Processing programs have made mincemeat of that nose-grinding process.

 

Faith

 

You are so right. I had forgotten about how time-consuming it was -- and if you messed up you had to retype whole pages.

[tearose]

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/08/22/why-are-college-students-studying-less

 

What's your view on why students study less?

 

In addition to what previous posters said, grade inflation. You don't have to study as much to get the same grades.

[Heather in Neverland]

I haven't been in school since '08, but from what I saw, it was sort of a vicious cycle. The majority of students arrived at college woefully ill-prepared for the coursework, so professors have been gradually dumbing everything down to avoid failing four-fifths of the class. Even during the five years I was there, the material seemed to get easier and easier. And, of course, doing work at what I would consider a ninth-grade level doesn't take too much time, so students had tons of free time to sit around on facebook. Many of them failed anyway, btw. And those of us that did have working brains could zip through the studying in a few minutes.

 

THis added to the fact that in America we seem to think that EVERYONE should go to a 4-year college and get a bachelor's degree. Well, I am sorry, but after teaching high school for over 10 years I can tell you that NOT every kid should go to college and yet we keep pushing them...and they can't hack it...and the professors don't want to fail everyone so they make the class easier...and what we are left with are bunch of people with "watered-down" bachelor degrees.:glare:

[3littlekeets]

THis added to the fact that in America we seem to think that EVERYONE should go to a 4-year college and get a bachelor's degree. Well, I am sorry, but after teaching high school for over 10 years I can tell you that NOT every kid should go to college and yet we keep pushing them...and they can't hack it...and the professors don't want to fail everyone so they make the class easier...and what we are left with are bunch of people with "watered-down" bachelor degrees.:glare:

 

:iagree: And, Universities all want HIGH retention numbers and it is feeding the "consumer" mentality of students and their parents. It is truly out of control.

[Mama Geek]

Another thing that plays into it are the degrees that won't get you a job. Lots of students spend 4 to 5 years and lots of money for a major that they will never find work in or be able to make a living. Often these majors aren't as rigorous as the degrees that actually would require the education to enter into that field.

[Renee in NC]

THis added to the fact that in America we seem to think that EVERYONE should go to a 4-year college and get a bachelor's degree. Well, I am sorry, but after teaching high school for over 10 years I can tell you that NOT every kid should go to college and yet we keep pushing them...and they can't hack it...and the professors don't want to fail everyone so they make the class easier...and what we are left with are bunch of people with "watered-down" bachelor degrees.:glare:

 

:iagree: x 1000

 

However, the problem is that if you don't get a 4-year degree and are *not* mechanically inclined, there isn't much left for you that pays well enough to support a family on. Those with an entrepreneurial bent generally do okay, but others may not. So, they go on to get a 4-year degree to get a job where a 4-year degree isn't necessary to *do* the job, but it is just to *get* the job.

 

When dh was looking for a job several years ago, the requirements for some jobs were just ridiculous.

[FaithManor]

I totally agree... you would not believe the number of jobs in this area in which a person must possess a bachelor's degree but it is of no consequence what the degree is in because it will never pertain to the job. I don't know if employers think they will magically get a better employee because they went to college but I wish they would wise up...I went to college with a lot of people who didn't have an ounce of sense in their heads so just because they came out with a degree, it didn't make them good employees.

 

I think our culture has gone completely mad when it comes to education and job training programs. Sadly, these stupid hoops will be jumped by many of our children just because they will need to do so in order to get jobs.

 

My nephew can't get a computer tech/repair job with benefits because he hasn't completed his two year degree yet even though Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. all send him the computers that their own technicians can't repair and then have to pay him the price he sets for the work. "But, nope, we can't hire you and give you benefits until you have a 'degree' even though you could run this department practically single handedly!" Literally a quote from Best Buy management. Oh and he already knows the business end better than their own tech department manager because the boy began running his own computer repair service when he was 15 and has been paying taxes on that income, reporting sales tax, running cash sheets, you name it...all of which he learned on his own because his high school did not offer any business math, business law, etc. classes.

 

Shaking head here!

Faith

[spradlin02]

I totally agree... you would not believe the number of jobs in this area in which a person must possess a bachelor's degree but it is of no consequence what the degree is in because it will never pertain to the job. I don't know if employers think they will magically get a better employee because they went to college but I wish they would wise up...I went to college with a lot of people who didn't have an ounce of sense in their heads so just because they came out with a degree, it didn't make them good employees.

 

I think our culture has gone completely mad when it comes to education and job training programs. Sadly, these stupid hoops will be jumped by many of our children just because they will need to do so in order to get jobs.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. I've been working for a fairly large company for the past ten years. I was hired by a small local company that was then taken over by my current company. I make a decent living with benefits (for the next week anyway), but I would never be hired back (fine with that) because I never finished my degree (no regrets) even though I have more experience than almost anyone they will hire to take my place.

 

Our society cattle marches people through the system. My feeling, teach my kids to jump through hoops IF necessary, but avoid or walk around them otherwise. Frankly, I would argue the most creative people generally avoid the homogeneity of "the system".