Math Curriculum.. Saxon? Abeka? Other?

[DragonflyAcademy]

I have a 9 year old who is good in math, but really dislikes it. Last year for third grade we started out with Horizons Math but felt that it was a bit quick in pace and he started to really struggle towards the latter part of the year.. Multiplication and Division were hard.

 

I didn't like the pace..and how there was no real "how to teach" aspect of it for me.. no ideas on how to introduce multiplication etc.. other than a general lesson plan for the day in the teacher guide..

 

Prior to Horizons, we have also tried the following programs.

 

Chicago math, it was not a good fit..

Right Start Math, while a good program, was also not a good fit.

 

I also tried Singapore Math with my middle child for kindergarten and didn't like that either.. She also struggled with the pace of Horizons kindergarten math but did well in Abeka kindergarten arithmetic.

 

I addition I was supplementing them with Math U See towards the latter part of the year in the hopes of filling in the gaps that the math program we had used (horizons) had left..

 

So.. this year.. DO we stay with Abeka for grade 1 and 4 math? Or is Saxon a better idea? What other options are there??

 

I need something that has math make sense, a child can complete partially on their own after a topic is introduced, isn't drill to death but offers the appropriate amount of review and repetition and also has a teacher guide that can help ME teach the concept.. especially for the older child.. my grasp on long division is terrible..:tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[mamamoon]

i am in the same boat, so i am eager to hear your responses.

 

i am thinking saxon for my 4th grader~sort of scares me, because some state that it is dry and "kill and drill". but i am thinking of going with it~

it seems to me a concrete understanding will bring math confidence.

[thowell]

Here is what I can tell you. My dd10 sounds just like this. We started the year with MEP, she hated it! We switched to CLE she hated it! We tried a little Ray's she still hated it! She is very good in math but HATES IT! She is my History buff. So I finally broke down and purchase TT5. It was the biggest purchase I have made in 2 years and took most of our budget but I can say it was well worth it! She loves it! There is no more fighting over math. For some reason now that she is doing TT5 as her main math now she will willingly do MEP for a supplement. This may not be what you are looking for but I am sure others will chime in. Good luck I have felt your pain!!!

[KarenNC]

We switched from Singapore to Saxon after 5+ years trying to make Singapore work for us. It's been great so far. Rather than "drill and kill," my 10 yo daughter finds the constant review helpful. She felt that Singapore threw too much at her too quickly (even standards edition). She is doing well on the tests and both of us are seeing a definite improvement (plus there's much less drama now :D). It's not flashy, in color or entertainingly illustrated, but it is certainly getting the job done here! It's also readily available used, so it's been about a quarter of what I was spending per year on Singapore Standards and it's non-consumable so I can resell it when we're done. That, plus the fact that I no longer hear, "I'm horrible at math, I just can't do it!" has been well worth the switch to me. Her confidence has soared.

 

We are on lesson 22 so far and three tests in. I have her do the facts practice, present the mental math and the daily problem to her, go over the lesson, work the practice problems with her and then set her going on the problem set independently. I then grade it and have her go back to rework any problems that she missed. Each problem has a small number in parentheses to show the chapter in which the concept was introduced, so it helps make it easier for her to go back and find the relevant material. Grading the problem sets has really helped her focus on not making computational errors, including units in answers, answering the specific question asked in word problems, etc---the attention to detail that was an issue for her before. The daily facts drill is helping with computational speed as well. I love that it's scheduled in for me, which means it actually happens.

 

I gave my daughter the placement tests and she came out between two levels (not quite enough right to bump to the next level). I looked at the ones she missed due to conceptual errors, then had a chance to look at both levels of Saxon side by side. We decided to use a few of the Key to.... this spring to get her caught up in those areas (ones that Singapore had not yet introduced) and go with the higher level. I was prepared to drop back a level if the first third of the book was too difficult, as that is primarily review, but I don't think we'll have to do that.

 

I can't speak to the teacher guide portion, as I have a good math background and haven't felt the need for more than Saxon is currently offering me. We're in level 7/6.

Edited August 16, 2010 by KarenNC

[DragonflyAcademy]

What is MEP, CLE ?

 

 

I assume TT is Teaching Textbooks.. what do people think of this program??

[thowell]

What is MEP, CLE ?

 

 

I assume TT is Teaching Textbooks.. what do people think of this program??

 

CLE is Christian Light Education, MEP is a free program offered online. I will see if I can give you a link. As far as TT like all other programs you will get mixed reviews. I will say if your kiddos are strong in math you will want to start a level ahead. Dd10 will be in TT6 within a few months (that is if I can save up the money lol) There website has alot of info on it along with samples. I would suggest you check it out for yourself.

 

Found it! http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

[DragonflyAcademy]

He took the TT placement test and TT4 seems correct.. he struggles with multiplication and division.. he makes silly mistakes on addition and subtraction...

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

We went from Horizons (many years of tears), to Saxon (even more tears) to MUS (finally understanding and no tears :)). We went all tha way back to Alpha despite them being in 5th & 6th grades because they had many holes to fill. We've been with MUS ever since and have added LOF for the older kids (high school) and MM for the younger ones.

[Ellie]

What about Rod and Staff Publishers? That would be my first choice.

 

My second would be R&S for 1st through 3rd or so, until the child tested into Math 54 (I'm just not a great fan of the primary levels of Saxon).

[momto2Cs]

Big Saxon fans here!

 

I don't find it drill and kill. My kids benefit from the constant review, and they love the mixed problems instead of just all one type of problem. I think it is very thorough, and straightforward. I love the explanations in the teacher's guides for the lower grades, and the instructions seem very clear in the 5/4 textbook.

 

My only concern moving into 5/4 is the fact that ds will have to copy everything down, but I think he'll be fine with it. I'm going to let him use my leftover graph paper (the good "architectural" kind) from college algebra, which for some reason he thinks is really cool.

 

Anyhow, I think Saxon is a very strong program, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it!

[DragonflyAcademy]

My only concern moving into 5/4 is the fact that ds will have to copy everything down,

 

What do you mean?

[DragonflyAcademy]

) and MM for the younger ones.

 

Which one is MM?

[KarenNC]

What do you mean?

 

Saxon is a non-consumable textbook rather than a consumable workbook (at least past the introductory levels, from 5/4 on up). For my daughter (in 7/6), we use a lap-sized dry erase board or notebook paper. She writes down the number of the problem and the answer, or copies out and works the problem showing her steps if needed, just as I did in public school. It hasn't been an issue for us. In fact, it gives her more practice in making sure she pays attention to lining up her place values correctly :). Most of her work is on the dry erase board, with the exception of tests as we keep those.

 

The suggestion of graph paper is good for this. We bought a small double-sided dry erase board last year that was blank on one side and had a grid printed on the other, which has been wonderful.

 

MM is Math Mammoth http://www.mathmammoth.com/

[Annabel Lee]

Abeka math picks up the pace in 3rd grade w/ multiplication & division that are more advanced than Horizons 3rd grade. Horizons, at the 3rd gr. level, is more advanced than Abeka on a few other topics like geometry. It doesn't have the daily basic fact review (the 4 operations) that Abeka does. If you switch to Abeka, you may need to closely compare their 3rd and 4th gr. books & find out if they have a placement test. If small (one or two digit) multiplcation & division are still hard, Abeka 4 might be a bit much.

 

For now, in the meantime, I'd work on getting the main math facts down pat - if he doesn't already. You can use games and approach it simply by number families like Abeka does, or first do "doubles" (2+2, 3+3, etc.) and then "doubles plus one, doubles plus 2, doubles minus 1, etc." (8+9 is really 8+8+1. Easy if you've got your doubles memorized). The doubles thing I picked up from a semester of using Saxon. Math Mammoth is easy to use and has built-in drill. The site has HUGE samples to look at with downloads if you want to try before you buy. It's extremely well-done so don't let the low price throw you off.

 

It sounds like some good, solid reinforcement from wherever he's at is in order. Then just move forward; forward progress is good progress. :) Don't worry about trying to match him to a grade level, especially in a faster paced curriculum, b/c if you skip the foundations of some math concepts, upper elementary will be hard. You can move quickly on things he's solid on and spend time on what's needed, to make it go faster.

[DragonflyAcademy]

Filling in the gaps is what i hope MUS will do.. and why I added it..But I do need something he can do mostly independently as I have other children to school during the day.. so game playing often takes a back seat.. sad as that is to admit..

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Filling in the gaps is what i hope MUS will do.. and why I added it..But I do need something he can do mostly independently as I have other children to school during the day.. so game playing often takes a back seat.. sad as that is to admit..

 

Then I'd suggest Math Mammoth. I use MUS as my core and supplement with MM but you could easily do the reverse. MM is inexpensive, teaches conceptually and can be done pretty independantly be cause the teaching is done in the worktexts (addressing the student) instead of in a teacher manual for thr parent to teach.

[cjshima]

I'm going to be using TT5 for my dyslexic daughter who is going into 5th grade. She passed the placement test just fine. I hear people say that TT is too easy, but that should be good for her so that she won't feel overwhelmed.

I'm also going to try TT for my 7th grade son who is advanced in math and going into Algebra. I hope it's not too easy for him! He's started getting bored with math, and I was thinking he would enjoy this. I played the demo for him on the website and he seemed to enjoy their format.

[DragonflyAcademy]

:confused:

So.. Math Mammoth.. is it good? What little I can see sample wise looks confusing..

 

argh!! I thought I had all this figured out.. and now.. square 1 again!!

[Annabel Lee]

:confused:

So.. Math Mammoth.. is it good? What little I can see sample wise looks confusing..

 

Hmm, the site has a feature at the bottom of a page (maybe the front page?) where you sign up for them to email you a download that is tons of pages. There are many threads here on MM, with answers to detailed questions - you could do a forum search. I'll try to dig one up... :auto:

 

OK, here's a list of threads with "Math Mammoth" or "MM" in them. The threads with many replies, such as the one titled "OK, so loving MM", are probably the most helpful. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5616700

 

Also, I agree, being back at square 1 doesn't ever feel good. If you want to just stick with a choice between the 2 your originally posted - Saxon or Abeka - then just do as much comparison as you can between those 2 and call it good. Those are some of the most time-tested maths out there and are solid programs.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Annabel Lee

[skaterbabs]

I like CLE, so far we've used (and finished) the 100, 500 and 600 levels, and are halfway through the 200 level. there is plenty of review, and there are drills that are included if you need them (we don't do them.) it's academically excellent, easy to administer, teaches to teh student, and it's inexpensive to boot.

[DragonflyAcademy]

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

I decided to purchase Math Mammoth Light Blue (grades 1-6) on CD Rom.. the coop has a nice deal on it so the timing was very good.. and have found the sample pages.. I think that it with Math U See will be a nice program and a better fit for the children..and not having to rebuy every year is a plus.

I am considering also adding Teaching Textbooks 4 for my oldest but will hold off for a bit and see if MM and MUS can hit everything for him..

[hsmom]

I am using the MM to supplement this year, but I am not using the grade levels versions. I am using the addition, subtraction and such books. They are cheap and you can get them at currclick.

 

With my oldest son we had a horrible time finding the right program for him. We started off with Addison-Wesley (the program taught the concepts weird and it was not a good fit), then off to Right Start we went (now yes it is a good program, but there was way too much hand holding and not enough independent time, also not a good fit), then there was Horizons (way too fast of a pace of him, not enough how to do, so also not a good fit), then we bought MUS (he hated the fact he had to stay on one subject/topic until mastered, he liked to learn and do more things regularly, so also not a good fit for us), finally I broke down and bought Saxon and it was a perfect fit. I thought that he would hate it and he loved every part of it and learned so much.

 

So, don't rule out Saxon. It is a really good program and with all programs many reviews are given good and bad. Now if you believe it has too much drill you just mark what you think needs to be done. Not everything needs to be done all the time. Also you can find Saxon used for really good prices.

[mysticamethyst]

I have made the switch to TT this year with my oldest and will soon be making change for all the kids. I do not explain math, I barely get it myself so to have a DVD set to explain it is a win for me. I have the Algebra l right now and will be getting 6 in 2 weeks. The downside is that its expensive. Good luck with your decision.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I have made the switch to TT this year with my oldest and will soon be making change for all the kids. I do not explain math, I barely get it myself so to have a DVD set to explain it is a win for me. I have the Algebra l right now and will be getting 6 in 2 weeks. The downside is that its expensive. Good luck with your decision.

Have you thought about doing it (or just watching the lectures) with your child? If I had my kids watch MUS's DVD by themselves it would be difficult for me to help them so I watch every lecture with them and have learned so much:001_smile:

[michelle l]

Have you thought about doing it (or just watching the lectures) with your child? If I had my kids watch MUS's DVD by themselves it would be difficult for me to help them so I watch every lecture with them and have learned so much:001_smile: Today 10:38 AM

Have you thought about doing it (or just watching the lectures) with your child? If I had my kids watch MUS's DVD by themselves it would be difficult for me to help them so I watch every lecture with them and have learned so much:001_smile: Today 10:38 AM

 

Have you thought about doing it (or just watching the lectures) with your child? If I had my kids watch MUS's DVD by themselves it would be difficult for me to help them so I watch every lecture with them and have learned so much:001_smile: Today 10:38 AM

Have you thought about doing it (or just watching the lectures) with your child? If I had my kids watch MUS's DVD by themselves it would be difficult for me to help them so I watch every lecture with them and have learned so much:001_smile:

 

I do this as well. I also supliment with Horizons, but run the Horizons behind the MUS, so in Horizons they are working, a below "grade level". I like that because that allows MUS to "teach" the concepts, but also provides more review than MUS does, and some light introduction to other topics like graphing, fractions, etc.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

 

I do this as well. I also supliment with Horizons, but run the Horizons behind the MUS, so in Horizons they are working, a below "grade level". I like that because that allows MUS to "teach" the concepts, but also provides more review than MUS does, and some light introduction to other topics like graphing, fractions, etc.

I do this but with MM instead of Horizons for my younger children and LoF (and probably AoPS for one child) with my older children:001_smile:

[mysticamethyst]

Have you thought about doing it (or just watching the lectures) with your child? If I had my kids watch MUS's DVD by themselves it would be difficult for me to help them so I watch every lecture with them and have learned so much:001_smile:

 

I have started to watch some of them with the boys, and some of its finally making sense:001_smile: Math has always been my downfall though. Its why I stopped going to college, failed college alg. 3 times, and couldn't face it again.

[DragonflyAcademy]

So.. if we watch the MUS Dvds, then do the lessons.. and use MM to supplement what the specific MUS covers (gamma for us).. think it would be "ok" to hold off on TT for a bit.. I hate to overdo things.. it would seem with MUS, MM and TT that it's a bit overkill... no?

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

So.. if we watch the MUS Dvds, then do the lessons.. and use MM to supplement what the specific MUS covers (gamma for us).. think it would be "ok" to hold off on TT for a bit.. I hate to overdo things.. it would seem with MUS, MM and TT that it's a bit overkill... no?

Yes, I think it would be overkill. I would choose one main and one supplement.