s/o Joanne's Christian thread: Is morality more important to you than dogma?

[Geek]

I think we need definitions for both terms in order to begin to answer the question.

 

What is the definition of morality? Is it what society deems "moral" at any given time in history? Is it what each person decides for himself? And, what is the fundamental basis for morality?

Humans have been working on these questions for millennia.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Oh, what a messy thread.

 

I will pipe in just to say that I don't know about morality and dogma, but I do believe kindness is more important than objective truth. All the logical arguments for or against a religion are irrelevant if they help you neglect to be sweet to anyone.

[Geek]

ETA: I'm defining dogma with the dictionary definition of "a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true"

Right. Can you explain how that definition isn't unbelievably arrogant? i.e. negative

 

I don't see the two as separable at all. Morality is doctrine.

Are you also saying that doctrine is morality? Are you saying that the only humans capable of morality are those following the *right* doctrine? It sure seems that's what you're saying but I wanted to be sure I hadn't misunderstood.

[cathmom]

The Catholic Church has never, as far as I'm aware, declared any specific person to be in hell.

[freethinkermama]

As far as God being a war criminal, there is a good article here. Not really sure rape was ever condoned.

 

As far as humans having better moral standards, I'm sure there are slaves in the Sudan and people in prison in China who would disagree. Those people are simply doing what they believe is right in their own eyes as well. What is considered moral and good is constantly in a state of flux.

 

Plenty of people in the Sudan and in China are opposed to what is going on, they just aren't in power.

 

Yes, God condones rape. Here's how to take a captive woman and rape her God's way. Deuteronomy 21:10-14. (The Hebrew word for "dishonored", is the same one used name the rape of Tamar, and in Judges 20:5.)

 

Here's another rule on rape.

 

Deuteronomy 22:28, 29 "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

 

**I'm sure she's grateful for that consideration.

 

 

The article you linked. . .Wow. A quick summary. God told the condemned people to repent to escape his judgment, but they didn't so he killed everyone. Totally ok. Even pregnant women and babies. And, really, it's better that the babies had been killed otherwise they would have grown up to be as evil as their parents.

Better that they die before they grow up and be condemned to hell.

 

All I have to say is, "my point exactly."

[Audrey]

Or is the dogma more important? Why?

 

 

I dislike the term 'morality' because, culturally, it implies a certain religion's definitions of what is 'moral' or not.

 

Obviously, I think that ethics far outweigh any dogma.

[Parrothead]

In fact, no Catholic I know believes this. But are Catholics really Christian? ;) Some Christians think Catholics are going to hell because they have not 'accepted' Christ in a certain dogmatic way, plus they 'worship' Mary. Which is agaist the first commandment and all.

Oh, for the love of all that is holy! Yes, Catholics are Christians.

[cathmom]

In fact, no Catholic I know believes this. But are Catholics really Christian? ;) Some Christians think Catholics are going to hell because they have not 'accepted' Christ in a certain dogmatic way, plus they 'worship' Mary. Which is agaist the first commandment and all.

 

You're right in that some small percentage of those who consider themselves Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christian. I was trying to point out that some Christians do not believe what some claim Christians believe, if that made sense. :001_smile:

[cathmom]

You're right in that some small percentage of those who consider themselves Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christian. I was trying to point out that some Christians do not believe what some claim Christians believe, if that made sense. :001_smile:

 

This post was part of a contest to see how many times one can use the word "some." I think I won!

[Carol in Cal.]

I put dogma first, but morality is not optional. It flows out of dogma, out of the inborn conscience ('the law written on their hearts') and out of gratitude toward God.