X Post, Math help please

[Mom2J112903]

For a child whom has a severe sensory processing disorder and most likely includes a central auditory processing disorder.

 

J can show me simple math, without much trouble-as long as he is focused. Ask him to do the math on paper or recite, forget it. He can't even do 1+1 = 2 on the white board :( He does know *some* of his math facts by memory, but not many-at all.

 

We are already on Lesson 31 in Saxon Math1, so we are getting to the upper double facts (6+6 thru 9+9) and while he can do everything else that is asked of him, I do NOT want to move on until he gets the simple facts memorized (for a lack of better terms).

 

J knows this, and like I said before, can show you, but can not tell you.

 

His VMI (Visual Motor Intergration) score was that of a 4.10yr old-he is 6.7yrs old.

 

We both like Saxon and the spiral approach and will do whatever needs to be done to get thru the year. What else is out there that either (a) I can supplement with or (b) a different curriculum that would suit him better? I need an "all hands approach" but it MUST be spiral NOT mastery. I need something that has munipuliatives, songs, DVDs, all the senses combined into one curricula. Is there such a thing?

 

Oh, and this is the *only* subject that is difficult for him. Phonics-you give him a rule and he knows it and can sound out almost any word you place in front of him. :thumbup:

 

Thanks for ANY suggestions you may have!

 

*Edited to Add* J will finally "get" a concept on the white board (say we are doing 0+ a number = that number) when we move to another concept, his brain can not "change gears" so to speak. I am not sure whom is more frustrated with this, J or I. Again, he can show me, but can not do it on the white board.

[Greta Lea]

My son is now 16yo and he *can* finally do math on paper with a pencil, but he still does NOT have all his math facts memorized. I think I've used every song-n-dance program out there, but he just couldn't get them all memorized. He's just like your son in that I'd tell his little sweet 6yo self a phonics rule *once*, then he could ready practically any word following that rule! But NOT math facts!!

 

I've been agonizing over this son's math just today.

[HeidiD]

 

We are already on Lesson 31 in Saxon Math1, so we are getting to the upper double facts (6+6 thru 9+9) and while he can do everything else that is asked of him, I do NOT want to move on until he gets the simple facts memorized (for a lack of better terms).

 

 

We both like Saxon and the spiral approach and will do whatever needs to be done to get thru the year. What else is out there that either (a) I can supplement with or (b) a different curriculum that would suit him better? I need an "all hands approach" but it MUST be spiral NOT mastery. I need something that has munipuliatives, songs, DVDs, all the senses combined into one curricula. Is there such a thing?

 

 

Thanks for ANY suggestions you may have!

 

 

 

I also have a similar child (dyslexic, diagnosed with CAPD, 11yo). He has all the tables memorized well, although once in a while he'll still reverse a digit when he's writing.

 

What worked for him was memorizing the tables as we moved foward rather than stopping until he learned the facts. I gave him copies of the tables, problems to solve, and told him he could look up the answers. The process of looking up the answers and writing them repeatedly caused them to stick in his mind. (Maybe also because they were in a relevant context rather than strictly list memorization? Who knows? :confused:) We did drill also, but mainly to fill in the gaps. Pointing out patterns seemed to help with retention as well. It took about a year for him to memorize all four tables.

 

When the problems started to involve multiple digits, I would use colored markers to differentiate place value, divisor/dividend, etc.

 

And, for multisensory reinforcement, he used a talking calculator along with other manipulatives. This, along with using the charts were probably the two most effective approaches for him.

 

Re Saxon and spiral mastery: I love Saxon, particularly the upper levels, but with this child, I haven't used it at all, because for him, the reinforcement of new topics would not be sufficient.

 

You can actually create your own spiral approach, or you can integrate supplemental materials with Saxon to provide more in-depth practice.

 

So, with my child, I concentrate on one topic at a time for a short period, then when he's mastered the concept to maybe 80%, I'll have him do some review in a different area. And then back again to the newer topic a little bit more. You can do this with some cheap workbooks (I like the "Key to..." series) or make up worksheets yourself, or find websites or software to generate worksheets. I don't know if a canned multisensory program per se will get the job done as well as observing your child, identifying his strengths and then capitalizing on them to help move forward. It may be that teaching through a particular modality rather than all of them at once will lead to fastest progress.

 

Regarding the brain "changing gears", have you tried giving him visual hints such as colored markers, or part of the answer (even writing down the answer yourself and having him trace it might help him memorize). Also drilling the facts in a wholistic way (2 + 2 = 4) can sometimes be more effective than asking the student to provide the answer. I also like Dr. Aardsma drill software. It starts simple, tracks progress and gradually increases difficulty.

 

If CAPD is involved, visual cues as you go along are essential. Also it's important to say what you want to say and then stop talking while the student processes the info in his own mind. (Lots of us have the habit of explaining and re-explaining while the child looks blank, not realizing we're interrupting his thought processes in the very act of trying to be helpful. :)) These were recommendations on ds' CAPD diagnostic report - very beneficial!!!

 

I hope some of these suggestions will be helpful to you. Good luck! :)

Edited July 28, 2010 by HeidiD

[Mom2J112903]

We have given him "tricks" to remeber his facts, like adding 1 to a number will equal the next number in line, adding zero equals whatever you are adding to.

 

I will write the facts, with answers, on the white board to have him recite them. He will recite the facts back to me, but sometimes he can not even do this-just one reason CAPD is suspected. Reciting facts back to me has proven very difficult when we are in the car-we can get thru about 10 questions and then either (a) he completly freezes up and just can not go on or (b) starts mixing different problems together into one new one. For example 2+2=3 becuause the last set we did was 1+

 

We are doing Listening Therapy and they also have Interactive Metronome at thier ready-I think I am going to ask if they can start this with him. He needs to be able to focus better and I *really* think BOTH of these programs together will acheive that.

 

Yesterday, for the VERY first time, I saw him saying that twos were sixes and visa versa. NEVER has he done this before! What is going on?!

 

Is there a better curricula out there than Saxon which has "more" to it and is still spiral? I can not make up my own, that is just not going to happen. I *need* a formal curricula, it is hard enough planning my own ASL curricula.

 

In *every* other subject we do not have a problem. J is a very bright child but I just do not understand these *simple* Math facts he can not memorize.

 

Why can a child read and yet not memorize such simple facts???

[HeidiD]

Yesterday, for the VERY first time, I saw him saying that twos were sixes and visa versa. NEVER has he done this before! What is going on?!

 

Maybe a speech issue related to CAPD? Two of my kids (one with diagnosed CAPD, one being tested soon) also have speech issues. They don't always necessarily say exactly what they mean to say, particularly under pressure.

 

 

Is there a better curricula out there than Saxon which has "more" to it and is still spiral? I can not make up my own, that is just not going to happen. I *need* a formal curricula, it is hard enough planning my own ASL curricula.

 

I haven't found one yet that encompasses everything I would like. You might check out Singapore and Math-U-See (both more visual programs than Saxon).

 

In *every* other subject we do not have a problem. J is a very bright child but I just do not understand these *simple* Math facts he can not memorize.

 

Why can a child read and yet not memorize such simple facts???

 

Maybe because math facts are boring, rote and meaningless to lots of little kids? Maybe he just needs more time and a different approach.

[EKS]

RightStart?

[Mom2J112903]

Ok, so who is going to make a curricula that has *everything* we want and become a millionaire? :tongue_smilie:

 

I showed DH a Singapore book at BAM! the other day-he said "that reminds me of how *I* was taught Math-I hated Math" I will look at it more when we go back to BAM!, most likely tommrow after J's OT-he adores that place. :)

 

J was pretty adament about a 2 being a 6 and visa versa. We will be discussing this with his OT tommrow.

 

Today is a day off from School-his Aunt is in town (my sister) and we are headed out to see them (they are staying with our elderly grandparents, they want to make sure S sees as much as them as she can) for the day. :)

 

Anymore suggestions/comments/feedback, etc, is always greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[chiguirre]

I've gone through a lot of math programs with ds. He did well with R&S 1 but got all his facts jumbled in R&S 2. This is the only regression I've ever seen with him, but his ABA tutor told me it was pretty common. So we went back to the drawing board and ended up with Math-U-See. Ds still hasn't recouped his math facts, but he can add and subtract with the blocks and he understands place value. MUS has a lot of built in review, although it's a mastery program.

[NCW]

This may be an off-the-wall suggestion, but you might consider RightStart (or Math-u-See) for mastery lessons with Saxon for review and drill. I know they are completely opposite curriculums, but a local Montessori school a friend sent her children to used a RightStart-like curriculum in school, and sent Saxon worksheets home every night.

 

When we used RS, we allowed use of the abacus to complete problems rather than insisting on memorization. Memorizing facts is important, but getting stuck on it can totally kill any interest in math. I wasn't willing to make that sacrifice.

 

Wishing you the best!

[Jan in SC]

I don't think you need to worry about a beginning first grader not knowing his math facts. You have a couple of years for this. I think you should relax and play math games for awhile.

 

If he has trouble writing, use manipulatives. Laminate some small numbers and basic math signs. You can even put a magnet on them and let him use them on the refrigerator while you are cooking.

 

I wouldn't let math facts hold you back, yet. I think you can move to patterns and time, and maybe some money. Give him some time to see what clicks. If you don't see improvement after six months to a year, then consider pursuing some more testing.

 

Please don't think I'm diminishing your concerns. I just don't think you should worry so much, yet! My youngest son could not recognize any number over 13 until he was three months into first grade.

[sbgrace]

If he likes games (my spectrum kid does not but his brother loves them) RightStart uses games to cement the math facts. My spectrum kid would just prefer to memorize drill card style but he worries me because he struggled with the underlying concepts I think which is more important and sounds like J's strength? I'd be a lot less worried about memorizing at their ages since he can remember rote things like the phonics rules. My other son had the concepts solid but took longer to memorize the facts and the RightStart games really have helped him.