What would you do?? Giving to church building fund?

[Aubrey]

I think this course of action is liable to end up shaking if not crushing the faith of one or both of you & definitely your children. It's unwise, not Scriptural, & I'd agree to it over my cold, dead body.

 

YMMV, lol, but I've seen this kind of thing crash & burn, & what chaps my hide the worst is when the person who chose the action & their loved ones lose faith over it, the church that benefitted from the action spurns the givers, etc.

 

Remember the pharisees tried to tell people that their obligations to care for their families, aging parents would be lifted if the individuals gave to the church instead? Jesus said that was a bunch of egotistical baloney. He said it nicer than that, though. :001_smile:

[lionfamily1999]

I think this course of action is liable to end up shaking if not crushing the faith of one or both of you & definitely your children. It's unwise, not Scriptural, & I'd agree to it over my cold, dead body.

 

YMMV, lol, but I've seen this kind of thing crash & burn, & what chaps my hide the worst is when the person who chose the action & their loved ones lose faith over it, the church that benefitted from the action spurns the givers, etc.

 

Remember the pharisees tried to tell people that their obligations to care for their families, aging parents would be lifted if the individuals gave to the church instead? Jesus said that was a bunch of egotistical baloney. He said it nicer than that, though. :001_smile:

He also said to give your all.

[Aubrey]

He also said to give your all.

 

To Him, not to a church building fund.

 

And actually, now that I think of it, I can't think of a verse that says to give your "all" exactly. I think there might be a bit of Benny Hinn mythos surrounding that.

[lionfamily1999]

To Him, not to a church building fund.

 

And actually, now that I think of it, I can't think of a verse that says to give your "all" exactly. I think there might be a bit of Benny Hinn mythos surrounding that.

Eh, I don't do megachurches on tv or in real life.

 

I do remember the apostles saying you had to give everything to follow and I remember a husband and wife struck dead, because they wanted to set some money aside just in case.

 

I do remember Him telling a man that was great all around that all he had left to do was to give everything to the poor and follow Him.

[thessa516]

Eh, I don't do megachurches on tv or in real life.

 

I do remember the apostles saying you had to give everything to follow and I remember a husband and wife struck dead, because they wanted to set some money aside just in case.

 

I do remember Him telling a man that was great all around that all he had left to do was to give everything to the poor and follow Him.

 

Ananias and Sapphira were struck down not because they wanted to set some money back, but because they lied and said they gave all.

 

3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." (emphasis mine)

[WagsWife]

You are entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. A builing that feeds, clothes, and draws the community is a place where God dwells, imo. Sure, it wouldn't be a Church without Christians, but they need someplace to gather.

 

We know absolutely nothing about OP's church, but it's funny that everyone assumes it is a money-grubbing, do-nothing-for-the-poor type place, builindg a big fancy mansion. :confused: Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I just assume that OP's dh, who knows the situation like we don't, probably has some wits and can tell whether the project is sound or not.

 

Exactly, our church is very sound financially. We are a small church, but we support over 50 missionaries every month. We are constantly asked to help people with utility bills and food. Our church also has a bus ministry that runs 3 buses.

 

While there are things about home churches that *greatly appeal to me, they don't have the capability to do the same things that a church in an actual building can do.

 

We need a bigger building...we have no choice. We can barely seat the people that come on Sunday morning, and we are still growing. I would say that God is blessing our church...building and all.

[WagsWife]

Maybe you could come to an agreement on the amount of your donation' date=' and then for your comfort, spread the payments over a year or more. If it's spread out enough, it might not even have to come from the emergency account.

 

That would freak me out too. :grouphug:[/quote']

 

This is what I would do as well. I don't think I would be comfortable going without a paycheck for three months. But I would be willing to take that total amount, and spread it out over say a year or so. Our church gave out pledge cards just asking us to either pray, give what the Lord laid on our hearts to give *each month*, or both.

[Aubrey]

Eh, I don't do megachurches on tv or in real life.

 

I do remember the apostles saying you had to give everything to follow and I remember a husband and wife struck dead, because they wanted to set some money aside just in case.

 

Ananias & Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit. Peter specifically said they didn't have to give *anything* but because they chose to lie about what they gave, they were struck dead.

 

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.â€

5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him.

7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?â€

She said, “Yes, for so much.â€

9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.†10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.

 

I do remember Him telling a man that was great all around that all he had left to do was to give everything to the poor and follow Him.

 

This is true--he said this to the rich young ruler who claimed to have followed every commandment ever given perfectly from the time he was a kid. Jesus never gave this command to anyone else.

 

I think we're wise to consider this passage, & I think it's possible that he asks this of some people today. But I think those people tend to hear God early on, before they have families to feed. I also think it's possible that that story was merely meant to illustrate the state of the young ruler's heart--that he *was* holding something above the Lord.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to quickly dismiss this, but I also don't think we can hang our whole Christian philosophy on one or two verses in isolation. In Proverbs, for ex, it says that a righteous man leaves an inheritance to his children. How can you do that if you've given everything?

 

Of course the point is that we have to consider all of Scripture in light of the Lord's voice in our lives, but in OP's case, what her dh is suggesting is more like what the pharisees suggested, not Jesus: give everything to the temple (us). This kind of sudden, extravagant giving is usually the result of emotional manipulation, & I've seen it in both churches & Hollywood--remember the rock concert to save Africa?

 

There are exceptions, of course, but when those are from the Lord, I don't believe those exceptions leave a family exposed to financial ruin. I used to believe in that kind of faith; now I embrace something a little more in line w/ Proverbs, w/ the ant, w/ a wise use of the resources he provides. Faith? Yes. Wisdom, too.

[*********]

While there are things about home churches that *greatly appeal to me, they don't have the capability to do the same things that a church in an actual building can do.

 

Sure they do. They just do it on a smaller, more personal scale.

[asta]

Do you guys have electronic bible verse generators or something?

 

 

a

[Impish]

Here's what I don't 'get'...would the church buy a member a home? Make the down payment? Several mortgage payments, support a family financially, completely, for months? And I'm talking about in the community, not somewhere it's 1/3 (or less) of living expenses here.

 

If the answer is 'no', then I honestly don't understand giving up the safety net you have...you can't count on your church to 'cover you' in a time of extreme need.

 

Pray about it. If its truly coming from God, you'll know.

[lionfamily1999]

Ananias & Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit. Peter specifically said they didn't have to give *anything* but because they chose to lie about what they gave, they were struck dead.

 

 

 

 

 

This is true--he said this to the rich young ruler who claimed to have followed every commandment ever given perfectly from the time he was a kid. Jesus never gave this command to anyone else.

 

I think we're wise to consider this passage, & I think it's possible that he asks this of some people today. But I think those people tend to hear God early on, before they have families to feed. I also think it's possible that that story was merely meant to illustrate the state of the young ruler's heart--that he *was* holding something above the Lord.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to quickly dismiss this, but I also don't think we can hang our whole Christian philosophy on one or two verses in isolation. In Proverbs, for ex, it says that a righteous man leaves an inheritance to his children. How can you do that if you've given everything?

I don't. However, when it comes to giving and stewardship, ESPECIALLY based on what her dh had to say, I walk very carefully. I'm new to the ideas of stewardship, they were never taught to me. Now, I look at my bank account and my savings and I think, am I storing these things because I don't trust God? Am I keeping these gifts to myself and does God have a better use for them than I do?

 

Now, as for inheritance, I'm not sure that it's a literal 'here is $$$' inheritance. If so, then I know a number of folks in trouble. I have always thought that referred more to a cultural, religious inheritence. Of course, I could be wrong ;)

Of course the point is that we have to consider all of Scripture in light of the Lord's voice in our lives, but in OP's case, what her dh is suggesting is more like what the pharisees suggested, not Jesus: give everything to the temple (us). This kind of sudden, extravagant giving is usually the result of emotional manipulation, & I've seen it in both churches & Hollywood--remember the rock concert to save Africa?

But, is he doing this to try and buy good will or is he doing this because God has blessed himself and his family so very much? THAT, imo, makes all the difference. Dh and I are happy to have over $200 in savings at any given time. Our savings does not grow. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around someone having a great deal in savings and being fearful of using it or giving it away. But, that's my sphere, we just don't have that kind of money and from my point of view it would be excess and extravagance. AGAIN, please, MY point of view, I know I'm not right, I know you (whomever has a good deal in savings) do not see things this way, I'm just trying to explain MY point of view.

There are exceptions, of course, but when those are from the Lord, I don't believe those exceptions leave a family exposed to financial ruin. I used to believe in that kind of faith; now I embrace something a little more in line w/ Proverbs, w/ the ant, w/ a wise use of the resources he provides. Faith? Yes. Wisdom, too.

I'm not seeing financial ruin though. It's their savings. Isn't the purpose of savings to keep you afloat when your income takes a hit? He wants to give away his income, that's what the savings is there for. It didn't sound to me like he wanted to mortgage the house and put their IRA and 401K and all their income and their savings into the church. It's just their savings.

 

And, for what it's worth, I would not be surprised that IF they did this and did this in the right spirit (ie not worried, complaining or grumbling) THEN, God would bless them mightily.

Here's what I don't 'get'...would the church buy a member a home? Make the down payment? Several mortgage payments, support a family financially, completely, for months? And I'm talking about in the community, not somewhere it's 1/3 (or less) of living expenses here.

 

If the answer is 'no', then I honestly don't understand giving up the safety net you have...you can't count on your church to 'cover you' in a time of extreme need.

 

Pray about it. If its truly coming from God, you'll know.

 

Our church would, maybe hers too. Our church has actually paid houses off for people in our community (not church members, and some don't even pretend to be Christians). That's why these questions are so hard for me, I'm coming from a church where they really do give.

[Aubrey]

Do you guys have electronic bible verse generators or something?

 

a

 

Biblegateway, lol. You open the site, enter as much as you can remember of a verse, & (if you've got it right)--voila!

[MelanieM]

And, for what it's worth, I would not be surprised that IF they did this and did this in the right spirit (ie not worried, complaining or grumbling) THEN, God would bless them mightily.

 

 

I strongly agree with this, and have seen so much evidence of it in my own life. In fact, I find the best cure for fear around finances is to give generously with a leap of faith.

 

I do think the worse possible thing to do would be to give while feeling resentful. But I find nothing wrong with the idea of giving in this way if a person feels called toward it, regardless of the recipient. As I see it, the challenge here isn't about whether or not this is a worthy cause or a smart move, but how to step forward as a team, in alignment with the proposed action (whatever it ultimately turns out to be).

[Impish]

I'm not seeing financial ruin though. It's their savings. Isn't the purpose of savings to keep you afloat when your income takes a hit? He wants to give away his income, that's what the savings is there for. It didn't sound to me like he wanted to mortgage the house and put their IRA and 401K and all their income and their savings into the church. It's just their savings.

 

And, for what it's worth, I would not be surprised that IF they did this and did this in the right spirit (ie not worried, complaining or grumbling) THEN, God would bless them mightily.

 

Our church would, maybe hers too. Our church has actually paid houses off for people in our community (not church members, and some don't even pretend to be Christians). That's why these questions are so hard for me, I'm coming from a church where they really do give.

I agree with the bolded. I think that's part of the reason we don't attend church...the constant request for money.

[Gooblink]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: 1,000 times, I agree!!! :)

 

Amen!

 

Edit: Grr, I still don't have this quote thing down. :) I agree that the people are the Church, not the buildings.

[6packofun]

Or how about just pray about tithing 10% of that money right now? And then you can always reevaluate if you feel led to give something over and above that?