Wanted to share some thoughts about MFW and TOG

[johnandtinagilbert]

Just wondering. I'm using MFW ECC this year and was looking into biblioplan for next year. The reason for this is that I don't want history to completely take over my homeschool. While I like MFW, I'm not crazy about the science in CtC, since science is a "big deal" at our house. Does TOG take 4 or 5 days per week, or can you tweek it to 3 days like biblioplan. Also, does it really require and extreme amount of planning. I tend to like picking and choosing what ciricula for each subject, so customizing appeals to me, but I have heard people say to start planning your TOG year in the summer. Yikes! :confused:Seem like a lot of planning.

Grammar stages, sure you can. Dialectic and Rhetoric you can have teacher time 3 days a week with no problem, but on the other 2 days, your students will have to be reading on their own and getting prepared to answer questions.

 

I plan in the summer, but I have older kids. I spend next to no time planning for the grammar stages. Print a page or two, check for library books. Otherwise, 20 min. on a Sunday afternoon would do the trick for 3 weeks worth of daily schedule planning. It's very easy. Take the book/ divide the pages, plug it in. Set up a regular schedule (Vocab on x day; Geography on x day, etc.). If I could afford to own all the books, the only thing I'd ever do in advance was make supply lists for activities and splitting up reading days.

 

I make it sound easy b/c it can be.

 

 

The books are harder to get from the library in year 1, but I find, the other 3 levels are pretty good for us. We do have a great system, but still, I will get all but a handful for year 4 (grammar stages) at the library. I'll own some D, check some out, and buy all the Rhetoric. When I split the total cost over my huge family, it's also very economical. TOG ROCKS!

[Honey Bee]

What a great thread! Two observations as I'm thinking through this also:

 

Independance. I like both and have been looking at them for next year, I'm leaning towards TOG because I the student can become somewhat independent and continue to be more as time goes on. I can see assigning reading, some simple geography, etc. after a teacher led introduction and then doing some talking about these things at the dinner table w/dad included.

Reading Accountability. I'm also looking at having more accountability when they read. My oldest son reads really fast and can narrate well, and I can't pre-read everything anymore (although I'm trying). TOG seems to give more accountability type "tools" with what the student reads.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still teeter-tottering :D.

[RobinF]

What a great thread! Two observations as I'm thinking through this also:

 

Independance. I like both and have been looking at them for next year, I'm leaning towards TOG because I the student can become somewhat independent and continue to be more as time goes on. I can see assigning reading, some simple geography, etc. after a teacher led introduction and then doing some talking about these things at the dinner table w/dad included.

Reading Accountability. I'm also looking at having more accountability when they read. My oldest son reads really fast and can narrate well, and I can't pre-read everything anymore (although I'm trying). TOG seems to give more accountability type "tools" with what the student reads.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still teeter-tottering :D.

 

I think you are correct. I have used MFW 2x's and used TOG this year. My oldest is in 5th grade and I have been able to give him his reading assignments at the beginning of the week and he schedules them out during the week. He can do his reading in any order that he wants as long as it is finished by the end of the week. I LOVE that and so does he!

 

I also love the SAP's in TOG for him to fill in and we discuss. Plus the teacher planning pages really pull together a lot of info so that you have a great background for the period you are discussing.

[Donna A.]

What a great thread! Two observations as I'm thinking through this also:

 

Independance. I like both and have been looking at them for next year, I'm leaning towards TOG because I the student can become somewhat independent and continue to be more as time goes on. I can see assigning reading, some simple geography, etc. after a teacher led introduction and then doing some talking about these things at the dinner table w/dad included.

 

Reading Accountability. I'm also looking at having more accountability when they read. My oldest son reads really fast and can narrate well, and I can't pre-read everything anymore (although I'm trying). TOG seems to give more accountability type "tools" with what the student reads.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still teeter-tottering :D.

 

Well, since you did say to correct you if you're wrong.... :lol: Coming from someone who's used/still using MFW all the way through elementary, and now high school, too.... MFW does both of those, too. It just does it differently than TOG.

 

Reading Accountability -- You know what your child is reading because you're the one choosing the books to bring home for him to read. Then he's supposed to narrate to you.... although not necessarily narrate *every* single book (esp if you bring a LOT home from the library), but then, he likely won't READ every book you bring home, either. Book Basket is meant for the child to enjoy sort of like a buffet meal at a restaurant. Mom sees that he gets his nutrients, but then he gets to choose dessert, too, or maybe even go back for seconds. And besides all that, Marie has notes next to each title listed in Book Basket so you know before you request it from the library (or purchase it, as the case may be) whether it's suitable material for him or not. That's one of the things I especially love about MFW Book Basket vs. just "any" booklist.... every single title on there has been pre-read by her, and she gives warnings of sensitive content, age-appropriateness, etc. Makes my job a lot easier, and I don't have to pre-read everything anymore. :)

 

I've also been known to pick titles from Book Basket and "assign" them to my child, then require either a written narration or a notebook page from it. It just depends on the topic and whether there's something there that I think she needs to spend more time with before we move on.

 

Independence -- Yes, MFW absolutely moves your child toward independence! There are always going to be assignments for "Advanced" (or older) students in addition to the assignments done "together". An older child will likely have "homework" to be completed after your group/family studies are done for the day, too. Plus every child is always doing their own level of math and LA (and science as of 7th grade), so he should be becoming more independent each year in those subjects, too. By high school, it's expected that the student works mostly independently (with oversight and grading from parent, just like TOG), and that's one reason (of several) that MFW high school is a different setup than elementary.

 

I can see assigning reading, some simple geography, etc. after a teacher led introduction and then doing some talking about these things at the dinner table w/dad included.

 

This would happen in MFW, too. But I gotta' tell you.... there's value to having an older elementary child sitting in on the "family" study & read-alouds, because as their minds and hearts are developing and maturing and they enter a new stage of learning where they can grasp a lot more than younger sibs, THEIR input becomes a topic of discussion and learning points for younger sibs, too. They recognize that they're a valuable contributor to family discussions, and that's really what our history and Bible studies are.... family discussions. Oldest child becomes like a "mentor" to younger sibs in this way..... while still getting lots of opportunity to practice independent learning, too. :001_smile:

[Guest Cindie2dds]

BTW, I am in love with MFW so far. :001_wub: So precious!

:) That's how we feel. Thanks for the comparison, Angela. I've always been intrigued by TOG. Terrific information.

[Honey Bee]

Well, since you did say to correct you if you're wrong.... :lol: Coming from someone who's used/still using MFW all the way through elementary, and now high school, too.... MFW does both of those, too. It just does it differently than TOG.

 

Reading Accountability -- You know what your child is reading because you're the one choosing the books to bring home for him to read. Then he's supposed to narrate to you.... although not necessarily narrate *every* single book (esp if you bring a LOT home from the library), but then, he likely won't READ every book you bring home, either. Book Basket is meant for the child to enjoy sort of like a buffet meal at a restaurant. Mom sees that he gets his nutrients, but then he gets to choose dessert, too, or maybe even go back for seconds. And besides all that, Marie has notes next to each title listed in Book Basket so you know before you request it from the library (or purchase it, as the case may be) whether it's suitable material for him or not. That's one of the things I especially love about MFW Book Basket vs. just "any" booklist.... every single title on there has been pre-read by her, and she gives warnings of sensitive content, age-appropriateness, etc. Makes my job a lot easier, and I don't have to pre-read everything anymore. :)

Oh, how I wish MFW would show a few narration pages and just one page from the booklist! These notes on the booklist, indeed, are a plus.

 

I've also been known to pick titles from Book Basket and "assign" them to my child, then require either a written narration or a notebook page from it. It just depends on the topic and whether there's something there that I think she needs to spend more time with before we move on.

 

Independence -- Yes, MFW absolutely moves your child toward independence! There are always going to be assignments for "Advanced" (or older) students in addition to the assignments done "together". An older child will likely have "homework" to be completed after your group/family studies are done for the day, too. Plus every child is always doing their own level of math and LA (and science as of 7th grade), so he should be becoming more independent each year in those subjects, too. By high school, it's expected that the student works mostly independently (with oversight and grading from parent, just like TOG), and that's one reason (of several) that MFW high school is a different setup than elementary.

 

 

 

This would happen in MFW, too. But I gotta' tell you.... there's value to having an older elementary child sitting in on the "family" study & read-alouds, because as their minds and hearts are developing and maturing and they enter a new stage of learning where they can grasp a lot more than younger sibs, THEIR input becomes a topic of discussion and learning points for younger sibs, too. They recognize that they're a valuable contributor to family discussions, and that's really what our history and Bible studies are.... family discussions. Oldest child becomes like a "mentor" to younger sibs in this way..... while still getting lots of opportunity to practice independent learning, too. :001_smile:

I should have just made this whole paragraph in bold. Great thoughts.

 

I really appreciate your thoughts and words of experience. I agree with so many who have said that both are great resources/tools/programs. So sad we must make a decision! Are you trying to make my life harder? :lol::lol::lol:

[Donna A.]

I really appreciate your thoughts and words of experience. I agree with so many who have said that both are great resources/tools/programs. So sad we must make a decision! Are you trying to make my life harder? :lol::lol::lol:

 

It would be great if you could go to a convention where both of these providers will be present so that you can see them in person and talk to staff. Actually, I don't know about TOG, but at the MFW booth it may not be "staff" that you talk to initially because they also have real moms who use the curriculum helping out in the booth, (I've done this, and no I don't get paid for it... it's completely voluntary), but staff is always there for more questions/explanations. They always have all the curriculum laid out so you can literally sit down and spend some time with a manual, and view sample student notebooks so that you can see what kinds of things your child is going to produce.

[jewel7123]

You could also check with your local homeschool group if you have one in your area to see if you can find someone local who uses MFW and someone who uses TOG, so you can see them in person.

[Donna A.]

You could also check with your local homeschool group if you have one in your area to see if you can find someone local who uses MFW and someone who uses TOG, so you can see them in person.

 

True. The only problem with this is that if the person you're borrowing from has only used one or two years of it (whichever "it" it is), you're not going to necessarily get the whole long term picture of the program from that. You're only getting a very narrow view of what THAT person has used to date. That's why I wish all reviews required the reviewer to state how long they've actually been using a program. :tongue_smilie: (Personal pet peeve of mine. ;) )

[Donna A.]

True. The only problem with this is that if the person you're borrowing from has only used one or two years of it (whichever "it" it is), you're not going to necessarily get the whole long term picture of the program from that. You're only getting a very narrow view of what THAT person has used to date. That's why I wish all reviews required the reviewer to state how long they've actually been using a program. :tongue_smilie: (Personal pet peeve of mine. ;) )

 

P.S. Angela, this wasn't necessarily directed at you personally. When I typed that, I'd momentarily forgotten this thread was started by your review! :001_rolleyes: (What can I say, it's 6 pages long by now, and I've slept since it started! :lol: ) I was speaking generally because I see it All.The.Time with ALL kinds of curriculum, and even methods of teaching.

 

As an example, my thought was that if you (the general "you") go to look at the MFW program that a mom in your homeschool group is using and she's only used the phonics portion of it so far (K or 1st), how can she know how it works out for an 8th grader? Or Adventures, which is written to 2nd/3rd graders? Or vice versa... let's say that mom jumped into MFW at high school... she doesn't know how it works for a 5th grader. Or let's say she completely switched *methods* of learning and has been using a Christian textbook publisher for the past 5 years and is now trying a classical or CM (or classical/CM blend) method for the first time.... her perspective is going to be with very limited understanding. IOW, you can't get a "big picture" of MFW from just the early years. (Or probably TOG, either, for that matter.)

 

Each "grouping" of MFW is unique to that particular group of ages... sort of the same way TOG has separate sections for Grammar, UG, LG, Dialetic, and Rhetoric stages (is that the correct breakdown?). Well, MFW also has its curriculum geared to the different learning stages. Yes, you have to buy a whole new "package" as your oldest child starts each new year of MFW all the way through high school, but then you only have to replace a handful of consumable items for each younger child from that point on. So that part's no different than TOG. With TOG, I know you only have to buy 4 "years", but you also have to buy the main spines for each level of learning in your household, plus read-alouds, plus Map Aids and the writing helps and whatever other extras there are. So while it may seem like TOG is less pricey when you base it on the TMs alone and the idea that you buy it "only' 4 times (4 years), I'm not sure it's really cheaper over the course of 12 years. You have to buy something every year -- either TMs and/or age-appropriate go-alongs -- for BOTH programs in order to teach ALL ages in the household.

[RobinF]

But I gotta' tell you.... there's value to having an older elementary child sitting in on the "family" study & read-alouds, because as their minds and hearts are developing and maturing and they enter a new stage of learning where they can grasp a lot more than younger sibs, THEIR input becomes a topic of discussion and learning points for younger sibs, too. They recognize that they're a valuable contributor to family discussions, and that's really what our history and Bible studies are.... family discussions. Oldest child becomes like a "mentor" to younger sibs in this way..... while still getting lots of opportunity to practice independent learning, too. :001_smile:

 

For us this happens in TOG too much like it did in MFW. We just choose one book for dh to read aloud to the boys out of the TOG booklist. Sometimes it is a literature book or an alternative resource. So this type of learning does happen with TOG too (at least in our family).

[MyLittleBears]

This is extremely helpful. Clears up a lot of fog. Thanks!

Grammar stages, sure you can. Dialectic and Rhetoric you can have teacher time 3 days a week with no problem, but on the other 2 days, your students will have to be reading on their own and getting prepared to answer questions.

 

I plan in the summer, but I have older kids. I spend next to no time planning for the grammar stages. Print a page or two, check for library books. Otherwise, 20 min. on a Sunday afternoon would do the trick for 3 weeks worth of daily schedule planning. It's very easy. Take the book/ divide the pages, plug it in. Set up a regular schedule (Vocab on x day; Geography on x day, etc.). If I could afford to own all the books, the only thing I'd ever do in advance was make supply lists for activities and splitting up reading days.

 

I make it sound easy b/c it can be.

 

 

The books are harder to get from the library in year 1, but I find, the other 3 levels are pretty good for us. We do have a great system, but still, I will get all but a handful for year 4 (grammar stages) at the library. I'll own some D, check some out, and buy all the Rhetoric. When I split the total cost over my huge family, it's also very economical. TOG ROCKS!

[johnandtinagilbert]

What a great thread! Two observations as I'm thinking through this also:

 

Independance. I like both and have been looking at them for next year, I'm leaning towards TOG because I the student can become somewhat independent and continue to be more as time goes on. I can see assigning reading, some simple geography, etc. after a teacher led introduction and then doing some talking about these things at the dinner table w/dad included. I love the POP Quizzes! They help me out, too! Independence is a specific goal for your students in the TOG program. TOG goes beyond the subject matter and helps guide the teacher and student for what is to come. The encouragement and how to instruction was wonderful for my family. TOG taught me how to have Socratic Discussion and that has made a HUGE difference in our family!

Reading Accountability. I'm also looking at having more accountability when they read. My oldest son reads really fast and can narrate well, and I can't pre-read everything anymore (although I'm trying). TOG seems to give more accountability type "tools" with what the student reads. The Teacher's Notes are exceptional. They really do make it so I don't have to read everything the dc are reading. Before TOG, I was and barely keeping up. There's no way I could manage if I had to read for all 4 levels!

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still teeter-tottering :D.

Donna, it's so nice to have a MFW expert join the conversation.

True. The only problem with this is that if the person you're borrowing from has only used one or two years of it (whichever "it" it is), you're not going to necessarily get the whole long term picture of the program from that. You're only getting a very narrow view of what THAT person has used to date. That's why I wish all reviews required the reviewer to state how long they've actually been using a program. (Personal pet peeve of mine. )

I hear you and find what you're saying applies to most programs, but not necessarily w/ TOG. After one year of any TOG level, a mom could get a big picture of the program, if she has dc in a variety of levels. For example, this school year, I have dc in all 4 levels. A friend started her dc this semester and she's got dc in 3 levels. She's gonna have a nice feel for the program after one school year.

It's actually kind of cool to sit down with one level of TOG and read through all the levels in the Teacher's Notes. It's quite encourageing to see where it starts and ends in one spot. One really can get a feel for TOG, so far as it's progression. Getting a feel for it in one year and understanding how a variety of levels work, that can be done in a shorter time than most.

 

 

Each "grouping" of MFW is unique to that particular group of ages... sort of the same way TOG has separate sections for Grammar, UG, LG, Dialetic, and Rhetoric stages (is that the correct breakdown?). Well, MFW also has its curriculum geared to the different learning stages. Yes, you have to buy a whole new "package" as your oldest child starts each new year of MFW all the way through high school, but then you only have to replace a handful of consumable items for each younger child from that point on. So that part's no different than TOG. With TOG, I know you only have to buy 4 "years", but you also have to buy the main spines for each level of learning in your household, plus read-alouds, plus Map Aids and the writing helps and whatever other extras there are. So while it may seem like TOG is less pricey when you base it on the TMs alone and the idea that you buy it "only' 4 times (4 years), I'm not sure it's really cheaper over the course of 12 years. You have to buy something every year -- either TMs and/or age-appropriate go-alongs -- for BOTH programs in order to teach ALL ages in the household.

We're library people, no matter what we use :) so we save a ton there, but Donna, you're right. Many will buy books b/c TOG is a living book curriculum. The good news is, you only have to buy 4 years of TOG, ever. Map Aids is a one time purchase, as is Writing Aids, and Evaluations if you so choose. I just bought my last installment of Curriculum so from here on out, I'm all books baby! I estimate I will spend about another $600 over the next 3 years and I'll never buy another TOG book again and I'm hoping Swagbucks will take care of a good bit of that! That will mean that by the time my youngest is in 6th grade, there will be no humanities expenses, except project supplies. There are no consumable replacements in TOG. Heck, at that point, I'll have all the math and science, too! WOW! I hadn't thought about that. I'll be in good shape! I can have some "me" money again :) (then she remembers college expenses...sigh....her bubble burst, she returns to reality :001_huh:)

 

It would be great if you could go to a convention where both of these providers will be present so that you can see them in person and talk to staff. Actually, I don't know about TOG, but at the MFW booth it may not be "staff" that you talk to initially because they also have real moms who use the curriculum helping out in the booth, (I've done this, and no I don't get paid for it... it's completely voluntary), but staff is always there for more questions/explanations. They always have all the curriculum laid out so you can literally sit down and spend some time with a manual, and view sample student notebooks so that you can see what kinds of things your child is going to produce.

TOG is doing the same...moms are volunteering, but they do get a free DE for doing so.

 

Well, since you did say to correct you if you're wrong.... :lol: Coming from someone who's used/still using MFW all the way through elementary, and now high school, too.... MFW does both of those, too. It just does it differently than TOG.

 

Reading Accountability -- You know what your child is reading because you're the one choosing the books to bring home for him to read. Then he's supposed to narrate to you.... although not necessarily narrate *every* single book (esp if you bring a LOT home from the library), but then, he likely won't READ every book you bring home, either. Book Basket is meant for the child to enjoy sort of like a buffet meal at a restaurant. Mom sees that he gets his nutrients, but then he gets to choose dessert, too, or maybe even go back for seconds. And besides all that, Marie has notes next to each title listed in Book Basket so you know before you request it from the library (or purchase it, as the case may be) whether it's suitable material for him or not. That's one of the things I especially love about MFW Book Basket vs. just "any" booklist.... every single title on there has been pre-read by her, and she gives warnings of sensitive content, age-appropriateness, etc. Makes my job a lot easier, and I don't have to pre-read everything anymore. :) Does MFW provide questions and leads for discussion?

 

I've also been known to pick titles from Book Basket and "assign" them to my child, then require either a written narration or a notebook page from it. It just depends on the topic and whether there's something there that I think she needs to spend more time with before we move on. I actually get the books from the Alternates page and follow the Book Basket, too. It does make for a better than tv option any day! And allows my voracious readers some extra fun! And, since the DE came along, there are comp. pages available for many of them online.

 

Independence -- Yes, MFW absolutely moves your child toward independence! There are always going to be assignments for "Advanced" (or older) students in addition to the assignments done "together". An older child will likely have "homework" to be completed after your group/family studies are done for the day, too. Plus every child is always doing their own level of math and LA (and science as of 7th grade), so he should be becoming more independent each year in those subjects, too. By high school, it's expected that the student works mostly independently (with oversight and grading from parent, just like TOG), and that's one reason (of several) that MFW high school is a different setup than elementary.

 

 

 

This would happen in MFW, too. But I gotta' tell you.... there's value to having an older elementary child sitting in on the "family" study & read-alouds, because as their minds and hearts are developing and maturing and they enter a new stage of learning where they can grasp a lot more than younger sibs, THEIR input becomes a topic of discussion and learning points for younger sibs, too. They recognize that they're a valuable contributor to family discussions, and that's really what our history and Bible studies are.... family discussions. Oldest child becomes like a "mentor" to younger sibs in this way..... while still getting lots of opportunity to practice independent learning, too. :001_smile:

TOG provides a family read aloud suggestion each week (not that we do it most of the time :tongue_smilie:), but being all on the same spot is wonderful. TOG also suggests so many projects and gives great ideas for Unit Celebrations. It's wonderful and allows us all to share and be united in our studies. It's been great.

Donna, thanks again for sharing. I have enjoyed learning more about MFW from your posts.

And, fwiw, I've been using TOG for 5 years and currently have dc in every level. I'm busy by sheer volume and love all that TOG does for me as a teacher AND how well it is helping to educate my dc!

[cbollin]

 

TOG is doing the same...moms are volunteering, but they do get a free DE for doing so.

 

 

just to clarify something.... mfw does pay hourly wage in the booth for moms/dads who work in their booth instead of volunteering their time for no pay, or to have it directed to the MFW missions fund.

 

but that really isn't anything to do with the content of the programs.It's just saying that at conventions MFW has real users in the booth as well as full time staff so you can a variety of style of answers.

 

time to make my coffee. enjoying the discussion and hearing how both work well for different people. cool stuff.

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

just to clarify something.... mfw does pay hourly wage in the booth for moms/dads who work in their booth instead of volunteering their time for no pay, or to have it directed to the MFW missions fund.

 

When I said earlier that it's completely voluntary, I had honestly forgotten that I got paid an hourly wage! :001_huh: I didn't do it last year, and when I did it the two years prior, my hourly pay ended up being a "reimbursement" of my expenses to be there for two days because it was about the same amount. (IOW, there was no "profit" to me! In fact, I probably spent more out of pocket than I got paid.) And the first time I was asked, I said yes before knowing I was going to get paid.... so I would have done it voluntarily. :tongue_smilie: We get reimbursed for our meals on convention days (or have a meal provided), but because I live right at 50 minutes from convention site, I'm not *quite* far enough away to be reimbursed for gas or hotel. I also have to pay for the dog to be kenneled if grandparents come to stay with the girls (because dh works), because they don't pay attention to her and she'll get out and run off. :glare:

 

So... just explaining all that to be completely honest since Crystal reminded me that we DO get paid hourly, which I had truly forgotten about. My apologies for speaking incorrectly... I wasn't intentionally trying to misrepresent the situation. I guess I just spoke based on what it *feels* like when it comes down to the bottom line (reimbursement rather than "getting paid"). ;) There's definitely no PROFIT in it for me other than the sheer pleasure of doing in real life what I do here on the boards... trying to help other moms understand MFW curriculum and vision better. That and the fellowship of working with staff and one or two other local MFW moms. :001_smile:

 

I'm sure the same is true for TOG moms who work the booth. I know a few people IRL who use TOG, two of which are my pastor's wife and my former pastor's wife. My current pastor's wife (who has kids in the same age range as me) and I were talking with another mom who's at the beginning the other day... we were discussing both regrets and triumphs of things we've done along the way. Pastor's wife said she focused too much on the academic and rigid, and didn't focus enough on the spiritual; I said I focused so much on the spiritual that I wasn't academic or disciplined enough. I thought that was ironic given the curriculum we use and the TOG/MFW discussions that take place on these boards. :lol:

 

(My former pastor's wife is very similar to my current pastor's wife in teaching style, goals, and even household management... her oldest just turned 11, and I expect that someday she'll have regrets very similar to what my current pastor's wife said the other day.)

 

So I know that has nothing to do with working in the booth.... I was just thinking about how I know that TOG moms love their kids, too, and while there seems to be a "mom personality" attached to one or the other curriculum, we all end up with some regrets and some triumphs. No "curriculum" can do it all FOR us, but because we want to it be to be "right", we probably (at least sometimes) spend too much time focusing on the curriculum itself rather than on our kids. Oh, to find the balance! Ever feel like you're going through life and getting bumped this way, start to veer off course, bump back the other way, start to veer off......

Edited February 16, 2011 by Donna A.

[MyLittleBears]

I'm also curious if people can fit TOG into a 3-day week. I am using Biblioplan right now, and we're actually doing history just 2 days a week just fine so far (we've done 5 weeks). Though I'm not doing the read-alouds (I'll hit them next time around... right now, reading aloud is too difficult to do because of age of children, so we do a lot of audio books in the van instead).

 

I LOVE the looks of TOG, and I feel like I understand how to use it, after going through the samples with a fine tooth comb. For a good month of my curriculum research, I was firmly settled on using TOG as my history. Why did I change to Biblioplan? Because I was afraid that TOG would take over my homeschool, and I really didn't want history to be 90% of the focus. I was also looking at the book list and thinking "$2000 a year when all my kids are in school? :001_huh:", though it probably wouldn't be THAT much, as some things are available at the library and some could be purchased used. But over time, I was going to need 3 levels of each year (I actually mapped out which level my kids would likely be each year). I don't have a problem with spending $2000 for homeschool stuff in one year. I do have a problem spending that much just on history, when everything else is sooooooooo much less. I mean, next year's curriculum (all of it!) is under $400 while using SOTW + AG. And since we are a math/science focus family, I just have a hard time putting that much money toward history, when I'd rather put that much money toward science.

 

But at the same time, I still drool over TOG. And maybe Y2-Y4 have more books available at my library. My library was severely lacking in Y1 books. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'll probably seriously consider TOG again as we get closer to Dialectic stage. For now, Biblioplan (basically SOTW + Bible) is working for us ok. I don't feel like it's helping me merge the Bible with the secular history as well as TOG would, but for our first time through, I'm fine with what we're doing.

:iagree: Drooling also! Maybe I'll consider it when my kids are older.

[cbollin]

There's definitely no PROFIT in it for me other than the sheer pleasure of doing in real life what I do here on the boards... trying to help other moms understand MFW curriculum and vision better. That and the fellowship of working with staff and one or two other local MFW moms. :001_smile:

 

ah. I see the subtle difference you meant. sorry about that.

 

same here. no profit in it for me. definitely not enough to pay for a year's program or anything like that.

No free curriculum, but did get some free food out of it. and fellowship. and a chance to share why I like it. that's enough "payment" for me.

 

I'm not helping this year because I want to go to the new and big convention in Memphis and just be me with no name tag.

 

lots of good stuff out there to use.

 

-crystal

[JSnow]

I looked at TOG for a whole year afraid that it would be too overwhelming, but we are using it this year and loving it!! My girls are 5th (UG) and 8th ® grade. My 5th grader did not enjoy reading until this year. She LOVES this curriculum because of the books that TOG chooses. You also can pick and choose what you want to do. With younger children you have to remember that you will study that same time period in 4yrs at a highter level, so don't fuss about doing it all. Both girls definitely want to continue with TOG. The beauty of TOG is only buy 4 yrs worth of curriculum planning. That's K-12 for all your children. I bought many of my books used at great prices and I will reuse the books from my older daughter with my younger daughter. I believe it actually is very economical in the long run if you have multiple children. We are completely sold!!

[jewel7123]

I looked at TOG for a whole year afraid that it would be too overwhelming, but we are using it this year and loving it!! My girls are 5th (UG) and 8th ® grade. My 5th grader did not enjoy reading until this year. She LOVES this curriculum because of the books that TOG chooses. You also can pick and choose what you want to do. With younger children you have to remember that you will study that same time period in 4yrs at a highter level, so don't fuss about doing it all. Both girls definitely want to continue with TOG. The beauty of TOG is only buy 4 yrs worth of curriculum planning. That's K-12 for all your children. I bought many of my books used at great prices and I will reuse the books from my older daughter with my younger daughter. I believe it actually is very economical in the long run if you have multiple children. We are completely sold!!

 

Good to hear! I'm about to start Year 1 in a few months with my LG dd and her tagalong sister who is K4. :001_smile:

[AngelBee]

I looked at TOG for a whole year afraid that it would be too overwhelming, but we are using it this year and loving it!! My girls are 5th (UG) and 8th ® grade. My 5th grader did not enjoy reading until this year. She LOVES this curriculum because of the books that TOG chooses. You also can pick and choose what you want to do. With younger children you have to remember that you will study that same time period in 4yrs at a highter level, so don't fuss about doing it all. Both girls definitely want to continue with TOG. The beauty of TOG is only buy 4 yrs worth of curriculum planning. That's K-12 for all your children. I bought many of my books used at great prices and I will reuse the books from my older daughter with my younger daughter. I believe it actually is very economical in the long run if you have multiple children. We are completely sold!!

So glad you are all enjoying it. :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

I looked at TOG for a whole year afraid that it would be too overwhelming, but we are using it this year and loving it!! My girls are 5th (UG) and 8th ® grade. My 5th grader did not enjoy reading until this year. She LOVES this curriculum because of the books that TOG chooses. You also can pick and choose what you want to do. With younger children you have to remember that you will study that same time period in 4yrs at a highter level, so don't fuss about doing it all. Both girls definitely want to continue with TOG. The beauty of TOG is only buy 4 yrs worth of curriculum planning. That's K-12 for all your children. I bought many of my books used at great prices and I will reuse the books from my older daughter with my younger daughter. I believe it actually is very economical in the long run if you have multiple children. We are completely sold!!

These sort of testimonies make me smile! I have heard so many people say that once they got past the fog, they found TOG to be easy to use and a beautiful addition to their home schooling.

[shindig]

This was a very helpful thread as I've always loved the potential benefits of TOG but have had challenges implementing it probably because of my own lack of discipline. So thank you for inspiring me to keep on pressing on!

[sonnie777]

Wow! thanks so much!! You have given a lot of useful info!!:001_smile:

[ange]

Thank you so much to the OP for your very thorough review and to all the rest that have posted your reviews and insights! I am currently spending my weekend at the Midwest HSC here in Cincy. Unfortunately, ToG is NOT an exhibitor here. :001_huh: However, I spent a lot of time at the MFW booth (well it's more than a booth, they have a lot of space here!) I also went to one of David Hazell's workshops and it was excellent - I had many ah-ha moments and some good laughs too. I love what I see in MFW, would have liked to have "seen" TOG in person for comparison sake, but I know enough about myself (uh, I hate planning) that makes me think ToG would not be my best fit - as good as all the material looks online! :D What has been especially helpful though has been talking to the experienced parents at the booth, and both David and Marie took time to walk me through how to fit all my kids into the program and how my day in MFW would look. One important thing I have walked away with so far...less can be more. (and I'm not talking about sacrifcing academics or going "light"). I speak from the experience of having 2 children go through 4 and 5 years of rigorous private school classical education in the *grammar* years. I love the MFW philosophy and I encourage anyone thinking about the program to really start there as I think that is the biggest difference between MFW and ToG (nothing wrong w/ ToG philosophy, just different). I learned a lot from David Hazell's workshop and I think he has cds of the same topics available on his website. There has been a lot of comparison of TM's and schedule and what kind of read alouds and specifics about the history cycles....but I really think one should begin with the *why* not the *what*. When you know why a curriculum has been written as it is, the needs it seeks to satisfy and the goal it intends to accomplish...that can tell you so much more about whether it is going to "fit" you or not. When I made that "switch" in my thinking, boy did things become clear to me. Thanks again for this great thread, and I wish you all the best whether ToG or MFW...they both are amazing Christian curriculums. ~Angie

[Donna A.]

Thank you so much to the OP for your very thorough review and to all the rest that have posted your reviews and insights! I am currently spending my weekend at the Midwest HSC here in Cincy. Unfortunately, ToG is NOT an exhibitor here. :001_huh: However, I spent a lot of time at the MFW booth (well it's more than a booth, they have a lot of space here!) I also went to one of David Hazell's workshops and it was excellent - I had many ah-ha moments and some good laughs too. I love what I see in MFW, would have liked to have "seen" TOG in person for comparison sake, but I know enough about myself (uh, I hate planning) that makes me think ToG would not be my best fit - as good as all the material looks online! :D What has been especially helpful though has been talking to the experienced parents at the booth, and both David and Marie took time to walk me through how to fit all my kids into the program and how my day in MFW would look. One important thing I have walked away with so far...less can be more. (and I'm not talking about sacrifcing academics or going "light"). I speak from the experience of having 2 children go through 4 and 5 years of rigorous private school classical education in the *grammar* years. I love the MFW philosophy and I encourage anyone thinking about the program to really start there as I think that is the biggest difference between MFW and ToG (nothing wrong w/ ToG philosophy, just different). I learned a lot from David Hazell's workshop and I think he has cds of the same topics available on his website. There has been a lot of comparison of TM's and schedule and what kind of read alouds and specifics about the history cycles....but I really think one should begin with the *why* not the *what*. When you know why a curriculum has been written as it is, the needs it seeks to satisfy and the goal it intends to accomplish...that can tell you so much more about whether it is going to "fit" you or not. When I made that "switch" in my thinking, boy did things become clear to me. Thanks again for this great thread, and I wish you all the best whether ToG or MFW...they both are amazing Christian curriculums. ~Angie

 

I think you've nailed it, Ange. I've looked at TOG a time or two myself, but even aside from all the "mechanical" differences between the two programs, the *why* behind MFW's layout and long term vision, as well as the biblical foundation from the very beginning, and the gradual development of academics with the child, is what's kept me there all these years.

[Brindee]

I think you've nailed it, Ange. I've looked at TOG a time or two myself, but even aside from all the "mechanical" differences between the two programs, the *why* behind MFW's layout and long term vision, as well as the biblical foundation from the very beginning, and the gradual development of academics with the child, is what's kept me there all these years.

We didn't find MFW until this time last year when I was looking for curriculum for my dd's 9th grade year. We have had a wonderful year with MFW AHL! My dd has found a deeper understanding of the Bible and a closer walk with God, has enjoyed most of the readings, and though scared of the writing at first, has learned so much from the great explanations, and done very well with the essays so far! I have never been happier with a curriculum! It's been a beautiful experience to see my dd learn so much, so well! She loves the schedule, and checking things off gives her a sense of accomplishment!

 

I so wish I would have known about this curriculum sooner so we could have used it in the lower grades! On the high school curriculum board, there are so many people remarking about how they've loved it, and now more that have just bought it and will be using it next year. There's a group of us that used the AHL this year that can imagine using anything else but MFW for next school year, since it worked soooo well this year!

 

 

I imagine it's the same for TOG users as well. When you find a curriculum that fits into your homeschooling lives so beautifully, it's hard to imagine NOT using it! The differences in TOG and MFW are good---they meet the needs of different people and make great programs to use for the different families! We are TOTAL MFW people now, and I see TOTAL TOG people here too! I know that, whichever curriculm is used, God will bless!

 

It's just figuring out the little differences to make that final decision that's hard! :001_smile: