I know this is a curriculum question on the general board, but figured I'd get more..

[Shelly in IL]

responses.

 

If you had a soon to be 9th grade ds and a stb 5th grade ds and you were currently in Am. history, would you press on for 9th grade and finish the cycle - OR would you restart from Ancients so that you could get it all in during the high school years? DS 9th is an avid history reader and is extremely interested in the world wars - has pretty extensive knowledge, etc. IT would also put ds 5th on proper rotation. Thanks.

[Shelly in IL]

.

[Tap]

Forecasting high school is so very different than the younger years. A simple history question actually leads to much larger ones. My response is based on the assumption that your state has specific class requirements for graduation, the child is college bound and possibly is planning on dual enrollment for jr/sr year.

 

First I would make a mock 4 year plan, filling in the required classes that have to be taken in a certain year. ie English is required all four years. I would mark those so I knew they were not negotiable. Then I would use pencil to lightly fill in the college requirements ie 2-3 years of foreign language, 3-4 years of math etc., that may be different than the graduation requirements.

 

Then look at any public school programs you may be interested in. Dual enrolment with the college, high school sports etc. Consider how those courses would affect the forecast. ie We wanted ds to get his 1/2 credit classes done in high school because the college uses 'terms' not 'semesters' so to get a 1/2 credit class out of the way, you have to take 2 terms in college, not one. This doesn't allow a second 1/2 credit class to be taken the same year. Dual enrolment really changes the parameters of what is needed for graduation so if you are considering this, I would meet with an advisor for your state (a high school counselor in you assigned school district would probably be a good start) to discuss these requirements.

 

Next look at what the general degrees you child is interested in require for high school credit. ie DS is starting dual enrolment in the fall. He is planning to major in chemistry. His Associates Degree in a 'Science Track 1' takes 90 credits, with the math starting at "College Calculus". Had he not started Algebra in 7th grade, he would not have been able to get his AS in 2 years without taking a couple extra math classes before they started meeting his required math classes. His high school diploma only required 2 years of math, but by having 4 years of high school math by the time he was in 11th grade it will save him 2 full classes of math in college (College Alg, and College Trig). We had a similar 'Whew' moment with science, where the fact that taking Chemistry in 10th grade will allow him the full 2 years in college to fulfill the required science sequence needed in college. If he hadn't taken chem in high school, he would have needed to take a 'chem prep' class before he could have taken the College Chemistry class. (Making the 'degree in 2 years' almost impossible without summer classes).

 

I would fill in the requirements to be on track for the AA/AS degree next.

 

Lab science and foreign language requirements would follow.

 

You should still have a few things like Art or Technology credits that you need to fill in.

 

I highly recommend doing a technology credit in Freshman year. Unless you child is already very versed in Excel, Power Point, keyboarding, Word processing etc. It is very valuable to have these skills under a students belt. AND use them in your home school! Require a periodic Power Point presentation to help them develop those skills.

 

By now you will have a pretty good framework of what high school will look like. The thing that surprised me at this point was that there wasn't much space left for other required classes and the electives.

 

I would look at how much time you actually have for history at this point. I was especially surprised when I looked at what the high school credits required. You may not have time for a full history cycle again.....I know we didn't. He may need 1 credit in World History. IF you plan to spend 2 years on the material needed for this credit that is fine, just make sure you can get high school credit for it, and realize that the second year will be elective credit. Then he will have a 0.5 State History and 0.5 US History requirement and in our state a full Current World Problems credit. For us...these don't align well with the full forecasted schedule, and trying to fit in a full cycle in history again! We had to drop our favorite hs subject, Omnibus and the reading for history. He just didn't have the time with his forecasting in place. I was very, very happy that I had planned for this path wayyyyy back in 9th grade (lol were only in 10th) because it is now allowing him to take full advantage of dual enrollment.

 

 

 

I don't want you to think that I am trying to discourage you from a full history cycle. I just wanted to say....look ahead...and make sure that you have the time and want to devote possible elective credits for it if you are planning on drawing it out for longer than you are required too.

 

One other thing to consider is if you are planning to go for any AP credits, planning those in now and the timing on the tests, is very valuable.

 

The one thing I do regret...I had contemplated allowing ds to complete a second 8th grade year for fun. Not a remidial year, but a year of just taking classes that he wanted to before we hit the heavy, required courses in high school.

[coffeefreak]

We're going to hit that problem too. We're doing MFW 1850 to mod next year, and when we cycle through again, we're going to just start with Ancients in 9th grade no matter where we are/what we're doing. I was considering other scenarios, and realized my oldest really needs one more round of complete history. I'm hoping to help them take the AP tests, so they don't necessarily have to do the freshmen classes. I was able to clep out of American history, and it was really nice.

 

HTH!

Dorinda

[coffeefreak]

Forecasting high school is so very different than the younger years. A simple history question actually leads to much larger ones. My response is based on the assumption that your state has specific class requirements for graduation, the child is college bound and possibly is planning on dual enrollment for jr/sr year.

 

First I would make a mock 4 year plan, filling in the required classes that have to be taken in a certain year. ie English is required all four years. I would mark those so I knew they were not negotiable. Then I would use pencil to lightly fill in the college requirements ie 2-3 years of foreign language, 3-4 years of math etc., that may be different than the graduation requirements.

 

Then look at any public school programs you may be interested in. Dual enrolment with the college, high school sports etc. Consider how those courses would affect the forecast. ie We wanted ds to get his 1/2 credit classes done in high school because the college uses 'terms' not 'semesters' so to get a 1/2 credit class out of the way, you have to take 2 terms in college, not one. This doesn't allow a second 1/2 credit class to be taken the same year. Dual enrolment really changes the parameters of what is needed for graduation so if you are considering this, I would meet with an advisor for your state (a high school counselor in you assigned school district would probably be a good start) to discuss these requirements.

 

Next look at what the general degrees you child is interested in require for high school credit. ie DS is starting dual enrolment in the fall. He is planning to major in chemistry. His Associates Degree in a 'Science Track 1' takes 90 credits, with the math starting at "College Calculus". Had he not started Algebra in 7th grade, he would not have been able to get his AS in 2 years without taking a couple extra math classes before they started meeting his required math classes. His high school diploma only required 2 years of math, but by having 4 years of high school math by the time he was in 11th grade it will save him 2 full classes of math in college (College Alg, and College Trig). We had a similar 'Whew' moment with science, where the fact that taking Chemistry in 10th grade will allow him the full 2 years in college to fulfill the required science sequence needed in college. If he hadn't taken chem in high school, he would have needed to take a 'chem prep' class before he could have taken the College Chemistry class. (Making the 'degree in 2 years' almost impossible without summer classes).

 

I would fill in the requirements to be on track for the AA/AS degree next.

 

Lab science and foreign language requirements would follow.

 

You should still have a few things like Art or Technology credits that you need to fill in.

 

I highly recommend doing a technology credit in Freshman year. Unless you child is already very versed in Excel, Power Point, keyboarding, Word processing etc. It is very valuable to have these skills under a students belt. AND use them in your home school! Require a periodic Power Point presentation to help them develop those skills.

 

By now you will have a pretty good framework of what high school will look like. The thing that surprised me at this point was that there wasn't much space left for other required classes and the electives.

 

I would look at how much time you actually have for history at this point. I was especially surprised when I looked at what the high school credits required. You may not have time for a full history cycle again.....I know we didn't. He may need 1 credit in World History. IF you plan to spend 2 years on the material needed for this credit that is fine, just make sure you can get high school credit for it, and realize that the second year will be elective credit. Then he will have a 0.5 State History and 0.5 US History requirement and in our state a full Current World Problems credit. For us...these don't align well with the full forecasted schedule, and trying to fit in a full cycle in history again! We had to drop our favorite hs subject, Omnibus and the reading for history. He just didn't have the time with his forecasting in place. I was very, very happy that I had planned for this path wayyyyy back in 9th grade (lol were only in 10th) because it is now allowing him to take full advantage of dual enrollment.

 

 

 

I don't want you to think that I am trying to discourage you from a full history cycle. I just wanted to say....look ahead...and make sure that you have the time and want to devote possible elective credits for it if you are planning on drawing it out for longer than you are required too.

 

One other thing to consider is if you are planning to go for any AP credits, planning those in now and the timing on the tests, is very valuable.

 

The one thing I do regret...I had contemplated allowing ds to complete a second 8th grade year for fun. Not a remidial year, but a year of just taking classes that he wanted to before we hit the heavy, required courses in high school.

 

Tap,

This is a great post! I needed to know where we were going in the next 4 years, so I looked at the college websites. It's not enough to do the state requirements. The colleges require so much more. Many of them have a "freshman worksheet," that you can print out and fill in throughout your HS career. That was really helpful for me as I did not know most colleges now require 4 years of math AND science. AUGH!!! Off to break out in hives now.

 

Dorinda

[Shelly in IL]

Why can't I take the course schedule from my son's acceptance into a private school in honors and apply him to the same schedule he would have taken there? This is a very prestigious school and I'm sure kids go to good colleges from their programs all the time. It just seems like it could be more simple and not so scarey! I just about dropped my teeth when I read your post. Talk about feeling overwhelmed and underprepared for the task at hand!

 

This is NOT a criticism of your post, but just trying to simplify my life and not cause me to need to have an early heart attack.

[Tap]

Why can't I take the course schedule from my son's acceptance into a private school in honors and apply him to the same schedule he would have taken there? This is a very prestigious school and I'm sure kids go to good colleges from their programs all the time. It just seems like it could be more simple and not so scary! I just about dropped my teeth when I read your post. Talk about feeling overwhelmed and under prepared for the task at hand!

 

This is NOT a criticism of your post, but just trying to simplify my life and not cause me to need to have an early heart attack.

 

 

 

You absolutely can do that! It isn't a problem if you have a home school transcript and follow a traditional high school graduation minimum requirement. Where it gets tricky is trying to combine a WTM/Classical school model to public school requirements. Your state may be less restrictive than our state. I have no doubt about kids getting into college with both a basic public school diploma and/or private school. But there are required classes that don't exactly overlap the classical model. You can still do it! But there must be some planning done from the beginning to make it work. The private school you are referencing, has done the work for you if you follow it exactly. Unschoolers can get into college too! Everyone has to take placement exams or show a score on a recognized exam like the SAT, to get placed into college.

 

My experience is in trying to stack the deck so that we place in as high as possible when we get there! I used to work in a public school program for homeschoolers. I have heard countless people remark that they would have done more forcasting going into 9th grade, with a clear cut goal in sight. Many parents just roll in to 9th grade thinking it is just like k-12 and in some states maybe it is. In my state, it isn't, if you want a true highschool diploma not a GED or other equivelency.

 

 

 

Once the kid gets into the college, they may have to take some remedial level classes to bring them up to where the college expects them to be for their course of study.

 

For instance: ds15 is wanting to do his AS (science transfer track 1 for a chemistry major at a 4 year college) in 2 years. He is required to take 2 full years of college Chemistry, 1 full year of Calculus, 1 full year of Physics. These all have minimum entry requirements that are above what a traditional high school student would have. NOT a problem, but that means he would have to take entry level classes that may not going toward his college degree (the require 9-11 elective credits so some could go to that). In our area you need Alg1, Alg2, Geometry to test into College Algebra. Then you have College Trig. Then Calculus. Had ds stopped getting high school math credits at the 2 credits required for graduation, he most likely wouldn't have even tested into College Algebra, requiring a 3rd term that started with remedial math before College Algebra. You may feel I am exaggerating, but in our area only 20% of the high school kids who take the college placement exam "Compass Testing" pass the College Algebra entry exam! This includes the kids who are in honors and advanced math. This is why colleges are wanting to see more high school math classes!

 

 

Your area may be very, very different. I can only go by what I see and hear.

 

 

 

If you are going by a private high schools outline, then you will probably do great. BUT, realize that I am not talking about that. I am talking about a person who wants to go with their own high school schedule. Maybe someone who fully intends to do history for 4 years (I wish we could have!). I am just saying if you are going to use up elective credits on the excess history, be prepared to really watch your core classes to make sure you have enough core credits to graduate. To make sure this happens in a timely manner, you need to do the forecasting to see how everything fits into the schedule. THIS is especially important for a dual enrolled student, who wants to graduate with an AS/AA at the same time as graduation.

 

NO one told me to plan through the end of the first two years of college when ds was in 8th grade. It wasn't even on my radar at the time! But I got lucky and we made good choices at the onset so here we are.

 

If you are going for a traditional high school diploma and then after the senior year, have plans for the child to enter college at a freshman level...it is much, much easier to get the credits you need.

 

It is the Dual enrollment (with a degree in 2 years planned) and a goal of an advanced math/science degree that really changed the game.

 

 

 

I will also play devil's advocate and say this: We haven't started the dual credits yet. DS will start in Aug (1 summer class). We have a great plan in place. We have options, we have planned for unavailable classes....but what if he isn't really ready?!?!? What then. He is planning to enter a 4 year university at 17 as a jr in college. This may not be realistic and we know it. So, while all this hard work may be worth it (he is the type of child who was born thinking like an adult) he has nothing to loose from it either. He can drop out of college, come back into home school or public school and have a fun high school experience. Then reenter college at the traditional 18yo Freshman status. There is no loss! A few bad grades will ding his GPA but that is it. He at least has the choice.

[happygrrl]

Tap, I posted a s/o thread about this that I hope you can look at!

 

(and is it OK if I call you Tap? :))

[Jean in Newcastle]

Tap,

 

I had asked a similar question to this on the high school board a couple of weeks ago - but with the SAT and SAT II in mind. What I was told there was that using a 4 year cycle in high school wouldn't really affect the outcome because we have such a strong history/lit. background starting at grade 1 and going all the way through to 12th. I did look at the WA state graduation requirements but figured that by the end of 4 years we would have enough world history, Amer. govt. etc. But is it wrong for me to think that way? As in when I go to fill out a transcript can I give some world history credit for Ancients, Medieval, Age of Discovery or whatever you want to call it, and then Modern history so that it adds up to the World history requirement by the end of high school? I'm sort of leaning towards using Omnibus.

[Peela]

I think people probably often over stress the 4 year history cycle and getting it perfect. In the end....it most likely actually wont really matter which way you go with it. What is important to you? For me, it was important that I do modern history with my dd before she leaves for college next year to do journalism...it felt important to both her and I that she be familiar with modern history, especially Australian history, because of what she is going into. So we sped through Rennaissance to get here. Ds came for the ride, which means he and I can luxuriate in a year of Ancients next year, which he will enjoy.

Don't overthink it. There will always be gaps.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

As long as you have the history credits you need (with the appropriate titles and content) for a diploma in your state, you are golden. Even if you don't have all of the content for a course within one year, but you have all the content for all courses needed between all the courses you have completed, you will have met requirements. So, doing it WTM way and adding in things like civics, economics, or whatever your state requires will be fine.

 

The other part of your question: I have a 5th and a 9th grader. We did Ancients this year. I am planning to complete the whole cycle and add the items I listed above.

 

It does not have to be complicated. Look at your state requirements and what you really want to do, mesh them, and take it one thing at a time. If your situation changes later, you'll deal with it. Rest easy that you will.