If your dc did well on AP Calculus and you are/not a math mom?

[Joan in GE]

Of if your ds/d just took it, if they think they did well....

 

Could I ask what you used?

 

I'd like to hear from both groups, knowing that it still takes good materials....but since I'm in the "not" group, it would be nice to know if it is possible...

 

I'm trying to order books to pick up in the US...just in case he'll have enough time to prepare for the AP next spring...Ds is planning on working on precalc through the summer....

 

Thank you!

Joan

Edited May 21, 2010 by Joan in Geneva

[mpcTutor]

Of if your ds/d just took it, if they think they did well....

 

Could I ask what you used?

 

I'd like to hear from both groups, knowing that it still takes good materials....but since I'm in the "not" group, it would be nice to know if it is possible...

(Note: Underlined word

s

are links)

I am not sure if I fall in any groups that you expected to respond. But I am not surprised that there has been no reply to your post yet.

I volunteered to

provide solutions to problems from AP Calculus and AP Physics

on Feb 3, 2010. Note that Feb to May is THE most critical time for AP student's life cycle of AP test preparation but not a single problem from AP Calculus/Physics has yet been posted. Looks like not many students do calculus with a goal to take AP Calculus test given annually in May.

 

There was a little change in Free Response Questions (FRQ) type problems. In the past, almost always there has been a problem from kinematics which was missing in the recent AP Calculus test and it might have surprised some students and teachers. Since you are looking for preparatory material, consider the current trends in test pattern. New trend suggests that one cannot count just on the word-based familiarity with known AP problems. The same problem from kinematics can be presented under different wrapping.

I'm trying to order books to pick up in the US...just in case he'll have enough time to prepare for the AP next spring...Ds is planning on working on precalc through the summer....

 

Thank you!

Joan

To answer your question, see the

list of books

that College board has given on their web site. College Board does give student and teacher lot of freedom in choosing material by stating "Not using a book

from this list

does not mean that a course will not receive authorization". After citing all this information, I must say that I myself have not yet adopted any of the books from above list of books. But I do recommend to get AP Calculus test problems from the College Board itself. I don't represent College Board and have no business gains or losses from their sales or no sales. My recommendation is based entirely on common sense: if certain universities need a good score in AP Calculus test, it makes sense for student family to know what the AP Calculus test is from the body that administers it. Certainly tests don't substitute the textbook but still I don't have recommendation for textbook. Students that I have been tutoring do use 900-1100 page textbooks which they never have time to read. It is understandable that teachers use the textbook mostly to assign problems and the publisher has teacher's solution manual. Most of these books will give indiscriminately overwhelming number of problems at the end of each chapter that even when student has access to solution manual or to online solutions, there is never enough time to master the concepts in sufficient depth to be able to solve similar problems if seen on test. Unusual as it may sound but do consider physical weight of the calculus textbook before you buy one.

 

Best regards.

 

mpcTutor

www.mpclasses.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

AP Calculus, AP Physics, Singapore Math Grades 7-12

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: If you replied to my post but didn't get an answer from me in reasonable time, I ask you to check the assumptions in your question. Thank you

 

US Central Time: 12:15 PM 5/21/2010

Edited at

US Central Time: 12:15 PM 5/21/2010

Edited May 21, 2010 by mpcTutor
Pluralised in red.

[Jane in NC]

Joan,

 

You should probably post this again in July after the AP scores are out. At least you'll catch this year's crop of test takers.

 

Jane

[In The Great White North]

Hi Joan,

 

Are you planning on teaching it, or having him watch DVDs or just learn from the book?

 

We used Foerster (but didn't bother with the AP test as USAFA has their own test the second week after arrival). Foerster is a great text, but we didn't have DVD's with it. Ds did most of it on his own. We do have the answer book.

 

If you need DVDs, the Chalkdust series is probably best. Houghton Mifflin also publishes them, much cheaper, but then you don't get Dana Mosely answering your questions.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89513&highlight=chalkdust+Houghton+MIfflin

 

I have the Houghton Mifflin Calculus DVD, just in case. As it turns out, ds didn't like learning from DVDs, so most of them haven't been used.

 

There are also the Khan Academy videos on youtube. They are by topic so you don't need a particular textbook to go with them.

 

Lial's and Thomas (older) have also been mentioned here and are good texts. We occasionally look something up in my old calc book (Thomas) but haven't used them as a main text.

 

I noticed quite a few American texts (translated and in English) at Thalia's in Bern. They have a lot of Stewart calculus materials.

 

http://www.thalia.ch/shop/jae_start_startseite/suche/?sswg=ANY&sq=calculus+Stewart&submit.x=32&submit.y=9

 

Stewart is a common freshman calculus text for the math/science track, but is not common as an AP text. If you were to use Stewart, the AP test only goes through the first 2/3's of the book.

 

You should also buy a couple of tests from the College Board:

 

http://store.collegeboard.com/sto/freeTextSearch.asp

 

and download the course description:

 

http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/courses/teachers_corner/2118.html

 

BTW, Calculus BC is the one he should take, not Calculus AB.

[Joan in GE]

There was a little change in Free Response Questions (FRQ) type problems. In the past, almost always there has been a problem from kinematics which was missing in the recent AP Calculus test and it might have surprised some students and teachers. Since you are looking for preparatory material, consider the current trends in test pattern. New trend suggests that one cannot count just on the word-based familiarity with known AP problems. The same problem from kinematics can be presented under different wrapping.

 

Thank you for your other advice too, mcpTutor

 

You should probably post this again in July after the AP scores are out. At least you'll catch this year's crop of test takers.

 

Good idea Jane! I'll give it a bump and maybe xpost in July....

 

Also Jane, I saw that PA Homeschoolers use the Larson with Analytic Geometry while CTY uses Single Variable...didn't you say that Analytic Geometry is falling by the wayside or am I misremembering? or misunderstanding?

 

Are you planning on teaching it, or having him watch DVDs or have him learn from the book?

 

...If you need DVDs, the Chalkdust series is probably best. Houghton Mifflin also publishes them, much cheaper, but then you don't get Dana Mosely answering your questions.

 

...There are also the Khan Academy videos on youtube. They are by topic so you don't need a particular textbook to go with them.

 

...I noticed quite a few American texts (translated and in English) at Thalia's in Bern. They have a lot of Stewart calculus materials.

 

...Stewart is a common freshman calculus text for the math/science track, but is not common as an AP text. If you were to use Stewart, the AP test only goes through the first 2/3's of the book.

 

You should also buy a couple of tests from the College Board...and download the course description...

 

...BTW, Calculus BC is the one he should take, not Calculus AB.

 

IGWNorth...thank you for all the info...

 

I never knew about Thalia's - might be handy mid-year!

 

I would really like my son to be following someone else's course, but think he probably won't be finished with Precalc by the beginning of Sept when PA AP classes start...I've looked at CTY and Oklahoma since they are individualized. CTY is very expensive and from other testimonies, some of their courses are good and some aren't. I would hate to pay all that for a bad course...Oklahoma, I have no testimonies at all...

 

So then Chalkdust...but that is not geared for the AP per se - or does it not matter? Khan we can use to fall back on...

 

My most pressing question for you is about the AB vs BC...I know BC is the full year and AB is just 2/3's. I just don't think he'll be able to do the full year in less than a year...Is there something you know that I don't about Swiss requirements?

 

Thank you!

Joan

[emubird]

We used Calculus: Graphical, Numerical, Algebraic (Finney, Demana, Waits, Kennedy). My daughter took the BC test last year and did fine. However, I suspect a lot of texts are comparable.

 

It was an edition that seemed to be specifically for high school AP courses, so it didn't have a lot of extraneous material (which could be good or bad, depending on your objectives). I don't recall it covering anything in multivariable calculus (but there are editions of these authors that do, I think). If you were to end up with the bigger edition, you'd just ignore all of that.

 

>>>****We had a full solutions manual, which was extremely important. This isn't just the answers, but the worked out problems. If you expect a student to learn on their own, they likely need this (unless they're some sort of genuis). Although I'm pretty mathy, I found I didn't need to help all that much because of this solutions manual. I wouldn't choose ANY book that didn't have this available if you plan to do this without a teacher.

 

If you're doing the AP test, you also want to be sure to get recent prep books. I forget which one we found best (maybe it was Princeton? but maybe not?). Just knowing calculus backwards and forwards isn't enough. You need to know what will be on the test and how it will be asked. Get recent prep books because the test keeps changing.

 

The college board also runs some message boards for AP teachers but I can't find the link. I can't remember if I got booted off that board for not being a teacher (yeah, right), but I do recall that I ran into some mirror site that seemed to be posting all the messages anyway. However, I've lost my book marks.

 

It took my daughter 1-1/2 years to get through the BC material. A student could do it in a year if they were motivated and put a lot of time into it, but it would be a big job. (My daughter was just not that motivated about calculus) It would be like taking a full year of college calculus (the AP tests usually take a full year to do one college semester). My daughter just took a semester of Calc III at college and it was a LOT of work. She heard that the 2 semesters before that were just as hard (although she had skipped them because of her AP score).

 

 

If you only have a year, you should probably consider doing the AB test. However, if you have the time and a good student, the BC test is the one to take. It gives a score both for BC and AB, so you don't lose out on getting an AB score, even if the BC score isn't very good. The college board expects a BC course is the end of a 2 year high school sequence. The AB test only gives credit for one semester of calculus. The BC test gives 2.

 

Our experience with getting AP credits accepted is that the calc test is generally the one that's accepted the most. Sciences, not so much.

 

BTW, I think my daughter ended up using the Stewart text for her Calc III class. She didn't like that nearly as well. It has a lot more proofs, but that seems to be at the expense of more worked out examples. Proofs are fine, but you really need those examples. The Finney et al book that we used was a bit thin on proofs. I imagine this would disappoint mathematicians, but I suspect it helps with the presentation. My theory about proofs is that they're a lot more understandable AFTER you've learned how to work with the material.

 

OK, this turned out to be rather long. Sorry about that.

[Joan in GE]

OK, this turned out to be rather long. Sorry about that.

 

Please do not apologize.

 

I'm glad it was a long post - it is all helpful in filling in the gaps. The more info I can get, the more I understand.

 

The part about extraneous info in the book is useful since we are going to be pressed for time...If there were a teacher, then they would know which parts to skip (or put off until after the test).

 

The "full solutions" manual...How can you know ahead? Eg we got one for Physics and it turned out to only have the odd numbered problems and then not all of them...or did you just mean the "solution" instead of the "answer" book?

 

I'll search for those message boards...

 

Thank you for all the other info too!

Joan

[Jane in NC]

Also Jane, I saw that PA Homeschoolers use the Larson with Analytic Geometry while CTY uses Single Variable...didn't you say that Analytic Geometry is falling by the wayside or am I misremembering? or misunderstanding?

 

 

 

The Larson with Analytic Geometry looks like another variation of the text. I have not seen this book but wonder if it is essentially the same as either the Single Variable or Transcendental Function versions with an extra chapter on conics. I'm guessing...

 

Joan, it is sometimes so hard to compare books when there are so many versions of one author's book, let alone the gazillion others on the market. Sorry not to be more helpful.

[In The Great White North]

The part about extraneous info in the book is useful since we are going to be pressed for time...If there were a teacher, then they would know which parts to skip (or put off until after the test).

 

 

I would really like my son to be following someone else's course, but think he probably won't be finished with Precalc by the beginning of Sept when PA AP classes start...I've looked at CTY and Oklahoma since they are individualized. CTY is very expensive and from other testimonies, some of their courses are good and some aren't. I would hate to pay all that for a bad course...Oklahoma, I have no testimonies at all...

 

 

Go to the College Board website. Find a sample syllabus for your text and compare it to the Course Description and the table of contents, and you will be able to figure out which chapters you can omit. There are also a million syllabi for AP calculus on the web, complete with daily assignments. I have freely adapted and used AP course syllabi for several courses, including calculus, AP Chemistry and AP Physics.

 

My most pressing question for you is about the AB vs BC...I know BC is the full year and AB is just 2/3's. I just don't think he'll be able to do the full year in less than a year...Is there something you know that I don't about Swiss requirements?

 

 

It's from the advice I was given a few years ago. Calc AB is regular high school calculus and, if you're lucky, will get you out of the fall semster of calculus. To get credit for the entire freshman calc class (both semesters) you need Calc BC. There are plenty of schools that offer Calclus BC, Calc AB would not be equivalent to the IB. UniBern's website does not list AB as one they don't count, so it would definitely be better than none.

 

 

The College Board may expect this but I haven't seen any high schools that actually split their calculus into two years (not that there aren't any, I just haven't seen any.) The high schools I've seen, in the Midwest and northeast, offer a one-year calculus class that ends with the BC test. Yes, it's hard and the pace never lets up. The AP test is in early May, so you don't even get the whole school year to finish the course.

 

he probably won't be finished with Precalc by the beginning of Sept

 

This was the problem we had. He did Foersters older Alg II/Trig as a sophomore, and we didn't finish the trig part til fall of junior year. So he started calc in about Nov. He got through chapter 8 so we decided not to take the AP test that year. This year, he's finishing the book (through multivariable) but we don't need to take the AP test.

[Laurie4b]

In general, a "Solutions manual" is a separate book from either the student text or the teacher's edition. When you choose your text, you can see if the publisher provides a solutions manual.

[eumyang]

Also Jane, I saw that PA Homeschoolers use the Larson with Analytic Geometry while CTY uses Single Variable...didn't you say that Analytic Geometry is falling by the wayside or am I misremembering? or misunderstanding?

The Larson with Analytic Geometry looks like another variation of the text. I have not seen this book but wonder if it is essentially the same as either the Single Variable or Transcendental Function versions with an extra chapter on conics. I'm guessing...

 

Joan, it is sometimes so hard to compare books when there are so many versions of one author's book, let alone the gazillion others on the market. Sorry not to be more helpful.

No, all of the versions of Larson's Calculus (except for the Multivariable version) contain the chapter on Conics, Parametric Equations, and Polar Coordinates. You can check Cengage's website to see the table of contents of each version.

 

The college board expects a BC course is the end of a 2 year high school sequence. The AB test only gives credit for one semester of calculus. The BC test gives 2.

The College Board may expect this but I haven't seen any high schools that actually split their calculus into two years (not that there aren't any, I just haven't seen any.) The high schools I've seen, in the Midwest and northeast, offer a one-year calculus class that ends with the BC test. Yes, it's hard and the pace never lets up. The AP test is in early May, so you don't even get the whole school year to finish the course.

I'm not a fan of a one-year calculus course culminating into the BC test. Taking two years (both shortened, since the exams are given in early May), sounds right to me. There are plenty of schools and school districts that I've seen where Calculus was split into two years. (The school where I teach does this, although we haven't offered the BC course in a while.) And few even split it into three (!), with multivariable as the 3rd year.

 

 

69

[Joan in GE]

Joan, it is sometimes so hard to compare books when there are so many versions of one author's book, let alone the gazillion others on the market. Sorry not to be more helpful.

 

I'm getting a good taste of this problem, especially trying to compare dif publishers content....that's why it is so helpful to have good recommendations...no need to apologize, Jane!

 

Go to the College Board website. Find a sample syllabus for your text and compare it to the Course Description and the table of contents, and you will be able to figure out which chapters you can omit. There are also a million syllabi for AP calculus on the web, complete with daily assignments. I have freely adapted and used AP course syllabi for several courses, including calculus, AP Chemistry and AP Physics.

 

 

Thanks for these ideas (and the other comments too!)...

 

In general, a "Solutions manual" is a separate book from either the student text or the teacher's edition. When you choose your text, you can see if the publisher provides a solutions manual.

 

I was wondering if there are different solutions manuals for teachers and students...Eg for physics, it says "student solution manual"....but I will do what you say and look at the publisher's website - thanks!

 

all of the versions of Larson's Calculus (except for the Multivariable version) contain the chapter on Conics, Parametric Equations, and Polar Coordinates. You can check Cengage's website to see the table of contents of each version.

 

I'm not a fan of a one-year calculus course culminating into the BC test. Taking two years (both shortened, since the exams are given in early May), sounds right to me. There are plenty of schools and school districts that I've seen where Calculus was split into two years. (The school where I teach does this, although we haven't offered the BC course in a while.) And few even split it into three (!), with multivariable as the 3rd year.

 

Thanks eumyang...it is so helpful to get input from all over the states as there are so many different things going on out there.

 

Thanks all of you!

Joan

[Kareni]

I was wondering if there are different solutions manuals for teachers and students...Eg for physics, it says "student solution manual"....but I will do what you say and look at the publisher's website - thanks!

 

 

 

You are correct, Joan. Generally the student solution manual contains fully worked out solutions for all the odd numbered problems in the textbook. An instructor's solution manual would contain fully worked out solutions for all the problems in the textbook.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[emubird]

 

 

The College Board may expect this but I haven't seen any high schools that actually split their calculus into two years (not that there aren't any, I just haven't seen any.) The high schools I've seen, in the Midwest and northeast, offer a one-year calculus class that ends with the BC test. Yes, it's hard and the pace never lets up. The AP test is in early May, so you don't even get the whole school year to finish the course.

 

 

The schools around us all do the BC calc as the 2nd year of calculus. There aren't that many kids that take the BC test, as a result, but I suspect it may work better for most kids. They've usually got a lot of other things going on in high school and don't have the time to do the BC all in one year with no AB before hand. (Although there are a couple schools that do all of AB in one semester -- on a block schedule. I've heard mixed reviews of that.)

 

I have seen syllabi for AP Chem that start the summer before the class -- the kids are expected to cover all of the first year of high school chem on their own before the AP class actually starts. Now many of these kids are just reviewing because they already had a year of high school chem, but it gives you some idea of how much material might have to be covered. (I've seen this for AP US History as well although I don't quite see the rationale.)

 

For schools that start in late Sept, it can be particularly hard.

 

It really depends on your student which pace you should do. We took more time, missed the AB test, came back for the BC test and didn't regret not having done the AB test. My daughter got a lot more time to figure things out on her own, so it all stuck better than if she'd been blasting through it. A lot of kids find they really need some refresher of algebra/geometry, even if they did very well in those classes. So it often makes sense to take more time.

[emubird]

And a solutions manual that only had worked out solutions for the odd problems would probably be fine -- I just like having them all.

 

But I think I would have had trouble helping with my daughter if we hadn't had any solutions. And I've had calculus fairly recently. They aren't always obvious solutions like they are in algebra and geometry.

[In The Great White North]

But I think I would have had trouble helping with my daughter if we hadn't had any solutions. And I've had calculus fairly recently. They aren't always obvious solutions like they are in algebra and geometry.

:iagree: I used the solutions manual all the time - and didn't even bother to buy one for algebra I, II, geometry or trig. (It had not been "fairly recently.")

 

The best calculus text is the one you can get the solutions manual to.

[Joan in GE]

Now I see that I should approach this the way I finally started approaching Dolciani books...

 

Find the complete solution book, that we can afford, for one of the better known authors...

 

I'm glad there's been this discussion about solution books...I was just about to buy a student book...

 

Thanks everyone!

Joan

[Teachin'Mine]

I don't know this from first hand experience, only from what I've read. But FWIW, Saxon Calculus is supposed to prepare for the AB and BC AP test. The book has fewer lessons, only 100 I think, to allow the student to finish early in order to take the AP test. They also have good solutions manuals, but I would think it would be good to have someone that the student could call if they run into a problem. Maybe a tutor would be willing to work in this way - just answering questions as needed rather than doing formal one hour sessions.

 

Has anyone used the Saxon Calculus and taken the AP?

[Jane in NC]

I don't know this from first hand experience' date=' only from what I've read. But FWIW, Saxon Calculus is supposed to prepare for the AB and BC AP test. The book has fewer lessons, only 100 I think, to allow the student to finish early in order to take the AP test. [/quote']

 

Just a comment: the material covered on either the AB or BC tests is determined by the College Board. It really does not matter if the material is presented in 50 lessons, 100 or 200. The same body of work must be covered. It is up to the instructor to set the pace so that the material is completed before May and the student has ample time to review.

[Joan in GE]

It is up to the instructor to set the pace so that the material is completed before May and the student has ample time to review.

 

Good reminder, Jane! Any recs for how long set aside to review?

 

Teachin'Mine, I didn't know that Saxon was preparing for the AP test...I have moved away from it though after my ds got quite exasperated with Alg II...Thanks though!

 

Joan

[Jane in NC]

I would leave a minimum of three weeks not only to review but to give students time to figure out that knack of the inevitable AP "free response" questions. There are some standard questions that recur so it is wise for students to work through the various permutations of these themes.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the College Board multiple choice questions can be tricky. If you have a literally minded student, leave more time to work on these questions as well.

 

One of the things that I did was start with some of those free response questions and general review before we completed everything for the test. So when my son was working on integrals,we reviewed derivatives and application problems. This might mean something as simple as assigning a few review problems a week or stopping the bus periodically for a day or two of review.

[Teachin'Mine]

Joan, I understand that you're not interested in Saxon. But I want to correct what I wrote as I was mistaken. I was confusing their physics with the calculus. Physics is 100 lessons, and I believe prepares for AB and BC, but the calculus is 148 lessons and prepares for AB and covers only some of the topics covered on BC. Here's the blurb from the Saxon site:

 

"

Calculus is designed for prospective math majors in college as well as students preparing for engineering, physics, business analysis, or the life sciences. The text covers all topics normally found in Advanced Placement AB-level calculus program, as well as many topics from a BC-level program. Problem sets contain multiple-choice and conceptually oriented problems similar to those in Advanced Placement exams. Also included are numerous applications to physics, chemistry, engineering, and business.

 

includes:

 

 

• Student Textbook (Hardcover)
  
• 148 Lessons
  
• Index
  
• Answer Key to odd-numbered Textbook Problem Sets
  
• 756 pages"
  

 

Sorry about the misinformation. And I understand that it's always the teacher and student's responsibility to complete whatever work and review is needed before a test, but I had remembered reading that they broke it into 100 lessons in order to make it easier to complete all the lessons in time for taking the test. But as I said, I had the subjects mixed up. I've been researching both lately. :tongue_smilie:

[Joan in GE]

Teachin'Mine - I certainly know how it is about confusing all kinds of textbooks...I seem to be doing it fairly often myself.:001_smile: You have actually reminded me that I have a Saxon Calculus book in my basement that I bought 10 years ago (thinking ahead!) and have forgotten about. It could be useful to peruse...

 

I would leave a minimum of three weeks not only to review but to give students time to figure out that knack of the inevitable AP "free response" questions. There are some standard questions that recur so it is wise for students to work through the various permutations of these themes.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the College Board multiple choice questions can be tricky. If you have a literally minded student, leave more time to work on these questions as well.

 

One of the things that I did was start with some of those free response questions and general review before we completed everything for the test. So when my son was working on integrals,we reviewed derivatives and application problems. This might mean something as simple as assigning a few review problems a week or stopping the bus periodically for a day or two of review.

 

Very helpful for planning! Thanks again, Jane!

 

Joan