Did anyone find Singapore 3A to be too easy?

[Halcyon]

My son recently began 3A. I found Singapore 2B to be a bit below his level, so we went through it fairly quickly in anticipation of 3A. We started 3A a couple of weeks ago, and....I don't know. My son isn't a math genius but he is finding it to be quite basic. Just for fun, we jumped ahead to page 75 in the book, and it's still quite basic. He really, really loves math--especially when it's challenging, and he's getting frustrated.

 

Has anyone else found this? We are also working with Zaccaro, which we find to be very challenging, but perhaps we should NOT do the Singapore workbook and instead do Singapore's Challenging Math Questions? (don't know quite what they're called-I believe they came out with a new version recently, which is why I've hesitated buying them--was hoping to hear reviews).

 

I am not trying to make it sound like "oh, my son is sooo smart"--believe me, he has plenty of stumbling blocks. But after finding 2B below level, we were looking for a challenge and I am not sure we're finding it here. Oh, and FWIW, my son has his times tables and division tables memorized, so even when I look ahead to the multiplication section, I don't think it will be challenging him enough.

 

Suggestiosn and advice is welcome.

 

ETA: I wanted to say, I am not really a fan of skipping ahead, as I am always concerned we'll miss something critical. But perhaps in this case we should?

Edited May 19, 2010 by Halcyon

[HappyGrace]

I can't comment on 3A, but when my ds was working through 1A and B (in first grade) and it was too easy, what I did was drop the workbook and use the Intensive Practice books instead. That helped up the challenge just enough. He liked that a lot better. I would think the Challenging Word Problems would be a nice stretch too!

[Dana]

I'd also recommend the Intensive Practice books. They are a stretch. And the Challenging Word Problems.

 

I think if my son only did the text & workbook, he'd find math very easy, but with the IP and CWP, he's challenged :)

[Halcyon]

Thank you. Can you tell me the difference between the IP and the CWP?

[EKS]

Yes--Because of this I consolidated lessons. We went over several lessons per day in the textbook. I didn't have him do the workbook. We slowed down for 3B and 4A and now are moving quickly again with 4B.

 

We also use the Challenging World Problems books (the old edition). These can be challenging, but not always. Of course, I use it a level behind. If you were to use it on level, it would be more challenging. The IP books are also more challenging.

[Halcyon]

Yes--Because of this I consolidated lessons. We went over several lessons per day in the textbook. I didn't have him do the workbook. We slowed down for 3B and 4A and now are moving quickly again with 4B.

 

We also use the Challenging World Problems books (the old edition). These can be challenging, but not always. Of course, I use it a level behind. If you were to use it on level, it would be more challenging. The IP books are also more challenging.

 

So would you recommend using the 3A CWP and the 3A IP? Can you tell me the difference between these two?

[Halcyon]

Are the Extra Practice the same as the IP?

 

http://www.singaporemath.com/Extra_Practice_s/141.htm

[nmoira]

Thank you. Can you tell me the difference between the IP and the CWP?

The IP has problems either more challenging or from a novel presentation compared to those in the workbook. For each topic there is a short revision section followed by problems, word problems, and then a short section of "Challenging Problems," which are occasionally *very* challenging (don't sweat it if your child cannot solve all of these). Previous mastery of the material is assumed, so the topic must be covered in its entirety in the text/workbook before starting the topic in IP. Many of us with math adept kids have them skip the workbook entirely.

 

The CWP books are all word problems. DD the Elder skips most of the basic problems and just does the challenging sets.

[fractalgal]

Thank you. Can you tell me the difference between the IP and the CWP?

 

The IP are intended to be use after you've gone through the ideas in the textbook. The textbook is where the teaching is. There are more variety in the types of problems in the IP than in the CWP and the difficulty level is greater in the IP and CWP than in the general workbooks.

 

The CWP give examples in the book of how to approach the problems which (in most cases) the IP do not. The IP do sometimes give hints in the book for harder word problems, though.

 

Many people use the IP and CWP books a year behind, although it is my understanding that they are intended by the authors to be used at the same level. No matter which way you may choose to use them, they are great books for delving deeper into the math ideas being taught in the Singapore primary program.

[Dana]

Are the Extra Practice the same as the IP?

 

http://www.singaporemath.com/Extra_Practice_s/141.htm

 

NO. The Extra Practice books are more problems that are at the same level as the textbook/workbook. I used it with 2A/2B because I felt my son needed more drill with addition/subtraction. I think I'll use it less with 3.

 

I'd add in both the IP and CWP if I were you. The IP is A/B like the texts, although it's only available for the US edition. It's still very easy to match up if you're using the Standards edition. There is one topic - money - that's in the 3A IP book but isn't until the 3B Standards textbook. (I'm doing some planning for next year!)

[heart'sjoy]

It has been worth the time to slow down and draw the bar diagrams for the simple word problems in 3a. Even though my ds could do them in his head, I insisted he learn to draw the bar diagrams. Otherwise he would be behind in 4b.

 

My son also has his math facts memorized as had my dd before 3a. The skill that they needed was how to keep everything neat and limit careless errors in long division and multiplication. Concept /challenge wise I could have moved them to fractions and percents 4a, but they would have been frustrated with their organization skills and how to estimate and check if answers make common sense.

 

For challenge we've used CWP ( sorry the ones out of print), Intensive practice has harder challenge sections. And the Free eworkbooks on singapore math forums have harder problems and skills than the textbook/ workbook.

 

Hope this helps give a glimpse of what is ahead.

[HappyGrace]

Heart'sjoy-can you expand more on exactly what organizational skills you made sure they had before moving on? I had read it was good to have the facts memorized before 3a, so we'll do that. But I'm interested in the other skills that you mentioned. I'm not mathy, but trying to be the best math teacher I can! Thanks!

[Halcyon]

Perfect. I am going to order the IP and the CWP. Many thanks everyone.

[Spy Car]

I can not speak to 3A, but I found much the same is true in 1A/1B, even doing it a year ahead. It think is not the intention to make the workbooks super challenging, but rather for them to be an opportunity for the student to apply the lessons learned in the textbook in a gentle way that reinforces the lesson.

 

Then you have the IPs. These are challenging, and consequently much more interesting. No blasting through ten, or twenty pages in a sitting with these books. No ma'am :D

 

And the CWPs will also take time and care.

 

We have to add the IPs from the US Edition because there are no Standards Edition IP books at this time (not a problem).

 

The MEP materials fulfill a "similar" role in our math program (while being different than the Singapore materials) in keeping the need to "think" high. For better or worse the regular workbooks do involve some fairly simple applications of the lesson that could not be called mind-bending, but I think there is probably wisdom in having a certain amount of this sort of practice. But for a child who is adept, they need more challenging work to keep them alive.

 

Bill

[Halcyon]

Bill-yes, this is why we love incorporating MEP into our day. I am wary of overloading my math-loving kid, but for now, I think we will try out the IP. Zaccaro may just fit the bill for the moment for challenging word problems-we love to sit around the dining room table and try and figure these out, especially the Einstein Level.

 

To some degree, I do think there is value in my son doing math he finds "not too hard".

[heart'sjoy]

Organizing skills came up when there were several 4-8 long multiplication or long division problems that needed to be worked on separate paper.

 

For us we tackled this with graph paper. Predividing the paper in sections, prenumbering, labeling the paper with a heading of the book and page number.

 

It took my two 1/2 a year to a year to really build the habit or being able to do the longer problems on separate paper. I had never thought about how many different steps there were to transfering their math skills on to blank paper when needed.

[heart'sjoy]

I started requiring word problem answers to have a box drawn around them including the unit.

 

ex. 18 km, 10 oranges, 398 cookies

 

 

Another area organizing skills came up was in the word problems. how to draw and line up the bars, the best way to get the most data and question marks into the bar diagrams. It was easy for the kids to draw the bare minimum and see the answer. We worked on putting all the known data and several questions we would like to know in. This helps greatly on the challenge problems when you're not really sure what to find first. If the problem is completely drawn with all data and most . questions in, you can usually see what would be helpful to solve for first.

 

Come to think of it I probably need to give my kids proofreading sheets for the word problems. They need a short checklist to see if they've covered the bases. Things like estimating first, does the answer make common sense, labeling the units, doublechecking multistep problems by working backwards.

[HappyGrace]

Thanks, Heart'sJoy! That was really helpful. Ds is a "do it in his head" guy and I know that will come back to bite us, so it's good to know ahead exactly how to help him organize on paper. Great ideas-love the graph paper!

 

Nice thread! :)

[amsunshine]

We had a similar experience with 3A. Part of the issue was we had already done CWP on level for previous topics, and when the regular textbook started teaching bar diagrams, dd was already up to speed. We are using our time to refine dd's skills in neatness and also expressing her word problem answers in complete sentences. Also, the long division sections are really helpful to reinforce the steps taken in long division, and to reinforce the concepts behind the steps. Otherwise, it seems 3A is a lot of practice for multiplication and division (which I don't mind -- we just do the lessons double time). I do like the IP to take concepts deeper, and I am finding that the Tests book throws dd some curves from time to time, which I like. The HIG also often provides activities for reinforcement which are similar to the problems offered in the IP, fyi.

[Halcyon]

I started requiring word problem answers to have a box drawn around them including the unit.

 

ex. 18 km' date=' 10 oranges, 398 cookies

 

 

Another area organizing skills came up was in the word problems. how to draw and line up the bars, the best way to get the most data and question marks into the bar diagrams. It was easy for the kids to draw the bare minimum and see the answer. We worked on putting all the known data and several questions we would like to know in. This helps greatly on the challenge problems when you're not really sure what to find first. If the problem is completely drawn with all data and most . questions in, you can usually see what would be helpful to solve for first.

 

Come to think of it I probably need to give my kids proofreading sheets for the word problems. They need a short checklist to see if they've covered the bases. Things like estimating first, does the answer make common sense, labeling the units, doublechecking multistep problems by working backwards.[/quote']

 

This is very helpful! DS couldd definitely work on neatening his work, using his units etc. I am working with him on how to break down questions into "steps", how to label each "step" properly, and how to keep his work neat. Graph paper is a good idea-I hadn't thought of that. I like the idea of your checklist, too.

[Storm Bay]

I'd whip through all of SM 3A and add the Intensive Practice, since the CWP books are out of print. I find that each section adds info as you go through it. Frequently I only had to show my dc something once or twice per section in the 2 books you're referring to, because everything that was built was quite obvious. I have found that usually somewhere later on in SM we hit something challenging. Of course, both of my younger two, the only ones to do those levels of SM had trouble learning the steps of long division. I can't remember when that comes up now. Is it in 3 B?

 

And yes, doing it in your head does eventually come back to bite you. btdt! However, I don't make them show every step of every problem early on, but if they're making too many mistakes, they have too. My middle one still hates showing steps and is now doing Algebra. She may do them, but she finds it messes up her page to put them with the answers (I kid you not.) She likes to set up her entire page before she starts (she used to set up her multiplication problems with all the bottom lines, etc, ahead of time, too.) She expects me to look at her scrap piece of paper! I don't, but we've been really working on this.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Karin