If not TT, then what?

[Sheila in OK]

I almost hate to ask, since I know TT is a hot topic here, but . . . all the negative TT threads have me worried. My dd has has used TT for two years (5 & 6) AT grade level. Last night I printed out the placement test for Saxon, just to see how she would do. Well, it was not pretty. :( She made a lot of careless mistakes. When we went over them together, she remembered how to do the problems and knew why she got them wrong. But even at that, she barely placed into Saxon 76 and she'll be a 7th grader next year.

 

So what now? We used MUS before TT and that brought her to tears daily. She is *not* a mathy child but I do want her to be successful with it. What I kept hearing her say over and over as we went over the missed problems was, "I remember doing that but we didn't do it enough and so I forgot how." So obviously there is not enough repetition for her.

 

I want to find a program that will help her really learn the math, but I don't want to go back to daily tears. Thoughts?

[LisaKinVA]

Could you continue TT, but supplement with some of the Key to... series? Or LoF? I'd hate for you to ditch something that is working fairly well, when the problem is more about review/repetition.

 

I'm guessing she is having issues with some of the newer concepts, not basic mult/div/add/subtract -- but fractions, decimals, percents (sorry, just a guess)

[Homeschooling6]

Could you continue TT, but supplement with some of the Key to... series? Or LoF? I'd hate for you to ditch something that is working fairly well, when the problem is more about review/repetition.

 

I'm guessing she is having issues with some of the newer concepts, not basic mult/div/add/subtract -- but fractions, decimals, percents (sorry, just a guess)

 

:iagree: also remember that many math programs have different scope and sequence. From what I have read (I haven't graduated any dc yet :leaving:) by the time they finish K-12 everything comes together and topics are covered.

Art Reed gave me some good advice and said that whatever math program you choose stick with it from 6th grade up. There are too many holes or gaps when you keep changing after this.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Homeschooling6

[HollyDay]

I totally agree that scope and sequence is an issue when it comes to changing programs. I also think math needs to be taught by a real person in the early grades rather than computer (just MHO). Having said all that, if you are happy with TT, then why switch? By the time your dc completes the program, then she will be done. But each program does things a bit differently. That is why it is hard to jump back and forth. I personally chose not use TT for high school because I did not want to commit to 4 years of math with 1 program to get the equivalent of 3 years. I did not want to commit to being tied to a computer or to the expense of the program. That is a personal choice based on finances, lifestyle, and learning style, not the quality of the program. If TT is working well, then stay the course. When all is said and done, your dc will have learned math. But, if it is not doing the job you want it to do, then either switch or chose to supplement.

[8filltheheart]

Art Reed[/color][/url] gave me some good advice and said that whatever math program you choose stick with it from 6th grade up. There are too many holes or gaps when you keep changing after this.

 

I don't know who Art Reed is, but I disagree with him. :D (Goodness, I am sounding quite contrarian today!!) There are many excellent math programs that don't even start until alg. Some of those have authors who don't have geometry texts, etc. A few that immediately come to mind are Foersters, Jacobs, and Art of Problem Solving.

[at the beach]

If you really want to switch and you have a child who isn't mathy, I would suggest you try Rod and Staff. It is an absolutely fabulous curriculum with tons of built in review. It is a mastery based program. I think you will really like it if you give it a try. You could probably find a set used very reasonably priced. I would probably do Math 6 if you feel she is a bit behind. Rod and Staff's explanations are so clear. I just don't think you can go wrong.

[8filltheheart]

I almost hate to ask, since I know TT is a hot topic here, but . . . all the negative TT threads have me worried. My dd has has used TT for two years (5 & 6) AT grade level. Last night I printed out the placement test for Saxon, just to see how she would do. Well, it was not pretty. :( She made a lot of careless mistakes. When we went over them together, she remembered how to do the problems and knew why she got them wrong. But even at that, she barely placed into Saxon 76 and she'll be a 7th grader next year.

 

So what now? We used MUS before TT and that brought her to tears daily. She is *not* a mathy child but I do want her to be successful with it. What I kept hearing her say over and over as we went over the missed problems was, "I remember doing that but we didn't do it enough and so I forgot how." So obviously there is not enough repetition for her.

 

I want to find a program that will help her really learn the math, but I don't want to go back to daily tears. Thoughts?

 

I would want to understand the full picture. Why did she cry with MUS? Do you interact with her on a daily basis on math or was the Saxon assessment test the first in a while? Have you used an incremental or spiral approach before? etc

 

There is no single answer for every child. If TT is not having enough review for her, a program like Saxon that does teach both incrementally and spirals in review might be a good fit.

[SilverMoon]

.

Edited June 7 by SilverMoon

[Sheila in OK]

That is the issue; I'm not sure if it is working or not. :/ I feel like if she is really learning the skills, she should be able to apply them to any problem even if it is set up differently than what she is used to. And I have considered supplementing; but then again, I'm spending SO much on TT, I think maybe I would be better off switching to something like Saxon that is more complete on its own. I just dread the daily meltdowns over math again.

 

I totally agree that scope and sequence is an issue when it comes to changing programs. I also think math needs to be taught by a real person in the early grades rather than computer (just MHO). Having said all that, if you are happy with TT, then why switch? By the time your dc completes the program, then she will be done. But each program does things a bit differently. That is why it is hard to jump back and forth. I personally chose not use TT for high school because I did not want to commit to 4 years of math with 1 program to get the equivalent of 3 years. I did not want to commit to being tied to a computer or to the expense of the program. That is a personal choice based on finances, lifestyle, and learning style, not the quality of the program. If TT is working well, then stay the course. When all is said and done, your dc will have learned math. But, if it is not doing the job you want it to do, then either switch or chose to supplement.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Sheila in OK
bad sentence structure :)

[Sheila in OK]

Yes, we interacted daily with the MUS. We used it successfully from Alpha up through most of Gamma. She then hit a huge brick wall with the way he taught multi-digit multiplication. She just could. not. get it. That is when we switched to TT5. It really was a lifesaver at the time, since she was feeling like she was "stupid" and couldn't do math.

 

Even with TT, I do sit with her while she watches the lectures (most of the time) and make sure she re-does the problems she misses. However, I have had nagging concerns this whole school year that the problems are too easy--which is why I have really been following all the recent TT threads.

 

I would want to understand the full picture. Why did she cry with MUS? Do you interact with her on a daily basis on math or was the Saxon assessment test the first in a while? Have you used an incremental or spiral approach before? etc

 

There is no single answer for every child. If TT is not having enough review for her, a program like Saxon that does teach both incrementally and spirals in review might be a good fit.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Sheila in OK
typo

[Sheila in OK]

Thanks for the recommendation. I will look into it!

 

You described my oldest to a T. Well, except he's never used TT. :) Rod and Staff's math has been awesome for him. R&S is another one that some say is a bit slow. From parents I've talked to that used it all the way, kids should be ready for algebra 1 when they finish the grade 8 book. This is perfect for big ds, as neither hub or I can see him being ready for algebra any sooner than 9th grade. He uses R&S right at grade level.The explanations are solid, they give plenty of practice exercises, and every lesson has a review section that regularly brings back old concepts. Ds still doesn't particularly like math, but he's understanding it and moving through it consistently with R&S. Once in awhile we do have to back up and repeat a lesson, but being a textbook all we have to do is flip back a few pages and do it again. This morning when this ds overheard me talking about books from a different curriculum company, and missed the part about it being for his siblings, he informed me that he would not be switching from R&S anytime soon. ;)

 

Hub or I work on the new concept with ds until we're sure he understands. After that he can generally do the lesson independently. The TEs have a great "class" teaching section in them just for this purpose.

 

For what it's worth, my more mathy kid also likes R&S math books. She loves the clear explanations and how easy it is for her to race ahead at her own speed. She runs a grade or more ahead in these books, which is normal for her. Rarely does she need us to explain or teach a concept, but this kid just seems to speak math's language.

[Brindee]

And I have considered supplementing; but then again, I'm spending SO much on TT, I think maybe I would be better off switching to something like Saxon that is more complete on its own. I just dread the daily meltdowns over math again.

FWIW, TT has a good return rate by selling them on this site. They tend to sell quickly if they're at a decent price and in decent condition. It brings the cost per year way down!

 

However, I have had nagging concerns this whole school year that the problems are too easy--which is why I have really been following all the recent TT threads.

Did you have her do the Placement test? She mayb have been able to do the next level up, still with success, but perhaps more chllenging.

 

If you haven't done the TT placement test, I'd have her do it and see where it places her. Then go from thee. If it places her in Level 5 or 6, then maybe your nagging concerns were right and you can try something like Saxon or CLE, which have kind of the same approach, but may have more explanation.

 

If she places higher, then maybe you can try the higher level it places her in and see if it feels better to you. In your honest opinion, does SHE like TT? If she does, this would be the step I'd take first, because as others said, it's easier to supplement than switch when the child is liking the program (and remember--good return if you sell TT here, which help you buy the next level)! :001_smile:

[AHASRADA]

Another plug for R&S math. We only used it for one year to solidify basic math concepts before ds moved into Algebra, but it was excellent. Simple, straight-forward, no bells and whistles, which was refreshing. It is a mastery approach, but with sufficient review. Ds also enjoyed the practical word problems (especially if you live on a farm, which we don't, but he would like to :)). I also loved that there were paper quizzes, test, as well as timed tests on a variety of topics, which you don't often find in the upper grades (7/8).

 

Of course, if TT is working, stick with it; I just had to add my $0.02 about R&S.

[Sheila in OK]

Good idea about trying the TT placement test; I think I will do that. I don't think I had her do it in the beginning either; I just assumed she would need to start 5 since she hadn't mastered multi-digit mulitplication.

 

Thanks for all your thoughts, I am feeling a bit less panicked now. :001_smile:

 

FWIW, TT has a good return rate by selling them on this site. They tend to sell quickly if they're at a decent price and in decent condition. It brings the cost per year way down!

 

Did you have her do the Placement test? She mayb have been able to do the next level up, still with success, but perhaps more chllenging.

 

If you haven't done the TT placement test, I'd have her do it and see where it places her. Then go from thee. If it places her in Level 5 or 6, then maybe your nagging concerns were right and you can try something like Saxon or CLE, which have kind of the same approach, but may have more explanation.

 

If she places higher, then maybe you can try the higher level it places her in and see if it feels better to you. In your honest opinion, does SHE like TT? If she does, this would be the step I'd take first, because as others said, it's easier to supplement than switch when the child is liking the program (and remember--good return if you sell TT here, which help you buy the next level)! :001_smile:

[Sheila in OK]

Oh, and I don't think she would ever admit to liking any math program. :lol: But it is the only program we have done that didn't make her cry. Guess that says something, right? When I ask her about it, she does say she wants to continue it next year.

 

In your honest opinion, does SHE like TT? If she does, this would be the step I'd take first, because as others said, it's easier to supplement than switch when the child is liking the program (and remember--good return if you sell TT here, which help you buy the next level)! :001_smile:

[HollyDay]

That is the issue; I'm not sure if it is working or not. :/ I feel like if she is really learning the skills, she should be able to apply them to any problem even if it is set up differently than what she is used to. And I have considered supplementing; but then again, I'm spending SO much on TT, I think maybe I would be better off switching to something like Saxon that is more complete on its own. I just dread the daily meltdowns over math again.

 

This was my concern as well. I was spending so much on TT that paying for another program to supplement just was not possible. I know there are other programs more expensive out there, but that is not the issue. The issue was I was not getting what I needed. I have to say, one thing I like about Saxon is the presentation of problems. The word problems are always changing the presentation, so dd must think about the concept. What does this problem ask me to do? What is the process? It is a cross between logic and math in many instances. For us, it was a great switch. For others, supplementing TT is a better option.

[Sheila in OK]

Holly,

What grade level did you switch to Saxon? Did you have to back up any at the beginning?

 

This was my concern as well. I was spending so much on TT that paying for another program to supplement just was not possible. I know there are other programs more expensive out there, but that is not the issue. The issue was I was not getting what I needed. I have to say, one thing I like about Saxon is the presentation of problems. The word problems are always changing the presentation, so dd must think about the concept. What does this problem ask me to do? What is the process? It is a cross between logic and math in many instances. For us, it was a great switch. For others, supplementing TT is a better option.

[johnandtinagilbert]

If you really want to switch and you have a child who isn't mathy, I would suggest you try Rod and Staff. It is an absolutely fabulous curriculum with tons of built in review. It is a mastery based program. I think you will really like it if you give it a try. You could probably find a set used very reasonably priced. I would probably do Math 6 if you feel she is a bit behind. Rod and Staff's explanations are so clear. I just don't think you can go wrong.

:iagree: I took my non-mathy son from Singapore to MUS...unhappy kid. We used RS7 and he loved it. It concreted all the elementary arithmetic so nicely and he gained so much confidence in math.

 

This year, we are using Life of Fred Algebra and he LOVES it. I do plan on testing him elsewhere in math to see how well this "different" approach worked and if he fares well, we'll stick with Fred.

 

My other children are using Chalkdust b/c I want someone else to teach math, but I can't say I'd suggest if for a non-mathy just yet. I'm just not familiar enough with the program.

[Stacy in NJ]

Oh, and I don't think she would ever admit to liking any math program. :lol: But it is the only program we have done that didn't make her cry. Guess that says something, right? When I ask her about it, she does say she wants to continue it next year.

 

I would continue on with TT and add a supplement as others have suggested.

 

Here's an inexpensive workbook that reviews all math concepts up to pre-algebra. She could do both a lesson in TT and one page from this book daily without being overwhelmed.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Essential-Americas-Teacher-Richard/dp/B001SJLVP0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1273241784&sr=8-7

[HollyDay]

We had to do Saxon 1/2 after TT pre-algebra. Based on placement tests, I could have used Saxon 87 or 1/2. I looked at both texts (someone locally let me take a peak at theirs) and chose 1/2. We were able to "test out" of the first several chapters. But, the work we have done for the past few months is challenging. Dd is not having an easy time of it. This is hard work for her. I am not trying to convince you to switch, far from it. What I am saying is that if you do decide to switch, there are programs out there. I do agree that if you stay with TT, you should consider supplementing.