Pre- Algebra in 9th grade

[TXMary2]

My up and coming high schooler has always struggled with math. We are at the tail end of Teaching Textbooks 7 and he has to work really hard with lots of review to keep over 80%. It makes me crazy that he has a mental block with math becuase he is so stinking smart about everything else. He wants to be a Zoology or Biology major and I have explained to him that he cannot avoid math in the sciences.

 

Anyway, we wil be doing Pre-Algebra for 9th. Our homeschool graduation requirements (that we set) are 4 years of math. Do I still give him one credit for Pre-Algebra even though it technically isn't a high school course? He will then take Alg 1 for 10th, Geometry for 11th, Algebra 2 for 12th and also 12th grade he will take consumer math. That would be a total of 5 math credits if I give him credit for the Pre-Alg.

 

Is it ok to list Pre-Algebra on the transcript as a NC (no credit) course?

[K-FL]

Don't know about NC, but we use NARS & they count Keys to Algebra as pre-algebra class for credit. Our thing to watch is that our state U's are changing their entry requirements to 4 yrs of math Alg. I or higher. Dd#2 is going to have to buckle down to take a math for each of the next 3 semesters @ the cc to get it covered.

[Teachin'Mine]

Have you thought about considering him an 8th grader next year? He would be at the older end when he graduates hs, but I don't think that really matters, and can even be a benefit especially for boys. I agree that if he wants the sciences, then he'll have to tackle the tough math too. I would think it might be a better plan to figure out how he could do math above the Algebra 2 level, pre-calculus. College calculus I and II are usually a requirement for biology majors, for example.

 

If he kept on his schedule as he stands, he could also take more math in college to get up to the Calculus level, but I'm not sure if it would hinder his acceptance into some colleges, or programs. Might be good to check with a college or two which he might be interested in, and see what they suggest.

 

Another year in middle school would also allow him to do Physical Science in 8th and allow him to do an AP or elective science beyond the usual ones. Just a thought.

[TXMary2]

Don't know about NC, but we use NARS & they count Keys to Algebra as pre-algebra class for credit. Our thing to watch is that our state U's are changing their entry requirements to 4 yrs of math Alg. I or higher. Dd#2 is going to have to buckle down to take a math for each of the next 3 semesters @ the cc to get it covered.

 

 

I was just pondering about using Key to Algebra this summer and going in to Algebra 1 from there. I think that is what we will do.

[Greta Lea]

But he's already an older 9th grader this year (turned 16yo last month).

 

In my state, you have to have 4 maths to graduate and pre-Alg. counts as one of those maths. BUT it does not count towards a "college prep" dipolma.

 

I've done some research on universities within a 2-3 hour drive from our home and discovered that NONE of them (some state schools, some private) require 4 years of higher math. They all require only 3.

 

My ds will for sure attend the local community college for at least one year, but probably both years. He has Asperger syndrome and we just think *socially* this would be best for him at first. Anyway, he only has to have Alg. 1 and Alg. 2 for entrance into this CC. He also could get scholarships to this CC with only those two maths.

 

My son finished TT Pre-Alg. a few weeks ago, but is still kinda lost. This summer he is working through the Key To Fractions, then Decimals, then Percents books using the Key To Tracker online program. Key To Tracker tests the student and then tells them what their weak area is and which pages to do in the Key To books to practice that skill. This way he will do only the pages in the books that he NEEDS to do.

 

He is also using ALEKS this summer. He will continue using it until he finishes the Key To Algebra. We'll drop ALEKS when he beings TT Alg. 1

 

After he finishes with those three books, I'm going to use the Key To Algebra book for more pre-Alg. review, again using the Key To Tracker online program.

 

Then he will move to TT Alg. 1. It will probably be sometime in the fall before he begins TT Alg. 1, but that's OK. He realizes that he will have to do math and a lot of it in the summer time between now and graduation.

[Brindee]

Greta Lea, Key To Tracker sounds really neat! That's kind of how I run things--I test and find where the child is at and start them where they get under a certain percent. I do that with math mostly.

[Kristin in Hawaii]

My 8th grade son was struggling with math until we tried the Math Relief set for Algebra -- it even includes review/re-teaching of multiplication and division of fractions. It has changed him into a boy who actually feels good about his math skills and has confidence that he can learn *anything*

 

Just a thought... Best wishes

[Jann in TX]

My oldest did Pre-Algebra (Lial's Basic College Math) in 9th--went right into Algebra 1 when finished...spent all of 10th grade in Algebra 1...and the following summer too... in 11th and 12th she completed Algebra 2 (Lial's Intermediate Algebra)... she is attending the local cc and placed into College Algebra--but her 'degree' program (photography) only requires Math 101 (combination of Algebra 2, consumer Math, and statistics).

 

I have several online students who are in 9th and even 10th grade who are still working at the Pre-Algebra level... and they are JUST FINE!

 

Completing Algebra 2 should be the minimum goal for high school if the student will be going to college. Geometry is nice--but not really necessary for 'special students'... if they run out of time... (my dd was already held back one year and was ready to move on at age 19).

 

The only problem I can see with your plan is that TT's Algebra 2 is not a complete Algebra 2 program--and your son will most likely be placed in Intermeditate Algebra at the CC--it is a non-credit class (remedial). It would probably be a GOOD experience for him--so he can get used to the pace of college math classes. After that he can take College Algebra (Algebra 3) and Trig as 2 separate classes (instead of the 1 semester Pre-Calc) course... then continue on to Calc if his major requires it (and most science majors do).

 

This may add a semester or two to total college time needed for a BS... but he can always take a BROADER course load (variety) to fill in as he waits for his Math pre-requisites to be completed.

 

As for putting Pre-Algebra on a transcript--many states allow it for graduation purposes--but most colleges will not count it (or even care)--they will just look at the last level completed.

[Heather in VA]

Our high schools specifically say 'algebra 1 and above' for graduation as have most of the colleges we have looked at. Certainly don't push him beyond what he can handle but you might need to be prepared to do some summer school or something similar to get more math in.

 

Heather

[TXMary2]

My oldest did Pre-Algebra (Lial's Basic College Math) in 9th--went right into Algebra 1 when finished...spent all of 10th grade in Algebra 1...and the following summer too... in 11th and 12th she completed Algebra 2 (Lial's Intermediate Algebra)... she is attending the local cc and placed into College Algebra--but her 'degree' program (photography) only requires Math 101 (combination of Algebra 2, consumer Math, and statistics).

 

I have several online students who are in 9th and even 10th grade who are still working at the Pre-Algebra level... and they are JUST FINE!

 

Completing Algebra 2 should be the minimum goal for high school if the student will be going to college. Geometry is nice--but not really necessary for 'special students'... if they run out of time... (my dd was already held back one year and was ready to move on at age 19).

 

The only problem I can see with your plan is that TT's Algebra 2 is not a complete Algebra 2 program--and your son will most likely be placed in Intermeditate Algebra at the CC--it is a non-credit class (remedial). It would probably be a GOOD experience for him--so he can get used to the pace of college math classes. After that he can take College Algebra (Algebra 3) and Trig as 2 separate classes (instead of the 1 semester Pre-Calc) course... then continue on to Calc if his major requires it (and most science majors do).

 

This may add a semester or two to total college time needed for a BS... but he can always take a BROADER course load (variety) to fill in as he waits for his Math pre-requisites to be completed.

 

As for putting Pre-Algebra on a transcript--many states allow it for graduation purposes--but most colleges will not count it (or even care)--they will just look at the last level completed.

 

 

We do plan on doing some dual enrollment classes at the community college, but upon graduation he will be going straight to a University so I want to make sure he knows enough math for the SAT, which I think includes Geometry if I am not mistaken.

 

I am going to try what someone else suggested and have him do Key to Algebra this summer and start him on TT Algebra one in August. If he has to take to the following August to complete it I don't care, as long as he "gets it."

 

Thanks everyone! I feel much better about it now!

[PollyOR]

We are also using Key to Algebra along with TT Algebra. I highly recommend it. We have a subscription to Key to Tracker (only $6 for a year!) which gives dd extra practice. The subscription includes Key to Fractions, Decimals, Percents, and Algebra.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Have you thought about considering him an 8th grader next year? He would be at the older end when he graduates hs' date=' but I don't think that really matters, and can even be a benefit especially for boys. I agree that if he wants the sciences, then he'll have to tackle the tough math too. I would think it might be a better plan to figure out how he could do math above the Algebra 2 level, pre-calculus. College calculus I and II are usually a requirement for biology majors, for example.

 

If he kept on his schedule as he stands, he could also take more math in college to get up to the Calculus level, but I'm not sure if it would hinder his acceptance into some colleges, or programs. Might be good to check with a college or two which he might be interested in, and see what they suggest.

 

Another year in middle school would also allow him to do Physical Science in 8th and allow him to do an AP or elective science beyond the usual ones. Just a thought.[/quote']

:iagree: Especially since he wants to be a Biology major. When will he be 14? Since it's getting late in the year even if he did turn 19 his senior year it wouldn't be for long. I prefer for my boys to be older regardless of academics. My current 8th grader will be 15 in September (so he'll be 18 almost his entire senior year) but is taking (and getting A's in) Biology and Algebra 1.

[Greta Lea]

Polly,

 

Are you finding that the Key To Algebra is closer to the concepts covered in TT Alg. 1? I haven't checked yet, but was thinking the Key To Algebra would line up more to TT pre-Alg. What do you think?

[Wendi]

Our state actually requires 4 credits in math, which must be Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and another class beyond Algebra II. Well, by the time ds graduates, that's what the requirement will be.

 

Wendi

[K-FL]

 

 

The only problem I can see with your plan is that TT's Algebra 2 is not a complete Algebra 2 program--and your son will most likely be placed in Intermediate Algebra at the CC--it is a non-credit class (remedial). It would probably be a GOOD experience for him--so he can get used to the pace of college math classes.

 

 

FYI: Here Intermediate Algebra is a credit class. It requires the same ACT score (19 on the math) as Statistics. Dd#1 took it and then went on to College Algebra which worked fabulously. She had had pre-Alg., Alg I & a crummy Geometry class. I considered Interm. Alg. as Alg. II for college credit. The class also assumed you had no clue of how to use the graphing calculator (she didn't) so she was really prepared for College Algebra.

 

I've been looking at Biology majors and most require through Calculus I & II. I would suggest you get him able to test into the college level classes ASAP & get him started on the pre-reqs. at the cc. It may be a great motivator for him too. ;)

[4wildberrys]

Our state actually requires 4 credits in math, which must be Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and another class beyond Algebra II. Well, by the time ds graduates, that's what the requirement will be.

 

Wendi

 

This type of state 'requirement' is baffling to me! ALL kids being put under this pressure is simply ridiculous, simply because not all kids can do this. :glare: My ds would do just fine under this, but dd is 11th and just finishing up Alg 1/Geom together. I have Alg 2 waiting for her next year---but am really dreading it because math is such a struggle for her. 4 math credits should be JUST 4 math credits---and leave it up to the individual according to ability and future plans to determine which 4 they want to take! ;) Oh---but there's the independent homeschooling spirit in me bubbling out---sorry!

[Carol in Cal.]

Several high schools around here have started to do this. Either in 9th grade kids are supposed to take Algebra 1 and Geometry together, or in 10th or 11th they are supposed to take Algebra 2 and Geometry together. Geometry is pretty much a stand alone year, and not referred to in Algebra 2 as best as I can remember.

 

If he's going into biology, he'll want to take trigonometry in high school. Pre-calculus or calculus would also be a good idea. In that major they are going to want him to hit the ground running in college; taking calculus level math from the start.

 

I do like the idea of two years of eighth grade, and I think that you should seriously consider that. You can easily figure out more history or literature to do, and getting an extra year of math and science in before hitting high school would get him back on grade level.

 

I, too, have a child who struggles with math. I debate all the time--developmental vs. capability??? But I do see a lot of progress, and she is now pretty far through algebra 1. We are using Saxon, and just the day before yesterday I gave her an old test from a couple of months ago to see whether she remembered the material. She did well on the concepts but copied a bunch of stuff wrong, which brought down her grade :glare:. Still, she was interested to see how much she had actually learned during the last few months, and how the stuff she had struggled with back then has pretty much become second nature. Bottom line--every once in a while, recognize and celebrate your success!

[PollyOR]

Polly,

 

Are you finding that the Key To Algebra is closer to the concepts covered in TT Alg. 1? I haven't checked yet, but was thinking the Key To Algebra would line up more to TT pre-Alg. What do you think?

 

Sorry Greta, I've never seen TT Pre-Alg. so I'm not sure.

 

Christianbook.com has the table of contents for each of the Key to Algebra booklets. That should give you an idea of what is covered.

 

Key to Algebra

[TXMary2]

Several high schools around here have started to do this. Either in 9th grade kids are supposed to take Algebra 1 and Geometry together, or in 10th or 11th they are supposed to take Algebra 2 and Geometry together. Geometry is pretty much a stand alone year, and not referred to in Algebra 2 as best as I can remember.

 

If he's going into biology, he'll want to take trigonometry in high school. Pre-calculus or calculus would also be a good idea. In that major they are going to want him to hit the ground running in college; taking calculus level math from the start.

 

I do like the idea of two years of eighth grade, and I think that you should seriously consider that. You can easily figure out more history or literature to do, and getting an extra year of math and science in before hitting high school would get him back on grade level.

 

I, too, have a child who struggles with math. I debate all the time--developmental vs. capability??? But I do see a lot of progress, and she is now pretty far through algebra 1. We are using Saxon, and just the day before yesterday I gave her an old test from a couple of months ago to see whether she remembered the material. She did well on the concepts but copied a bunch of stuff wrong, which brought down her grade :glare:. Still, she was interested to see how much she had actually learned during the last few months, and how the stuff she had struggled with back then has pretty much become second nature. Bottom line--every once in a while, recognize and celebrate your success!

 

He's actually going to major in Zoology - Trigonometry and Calculus aren't on the course list for any of the schools we have researched. No way will he do either of those before high school graduation. I'll be satisfied to get him through Algebra II. If he can pass the math portion of the Compass test for dual enrollment then he can take the College Algebra class they offer.

[Carol in Cal.]

He's actually going to major in Zoology - Trigonometry and Calculus aren't on the course list for any of the schools we have researched. No way will he do either of those before high school graduation. I'll be satisfied to get him through Algebra II. If he can pass the math portion of the Compass test for dual enrollment then he can take the College Algebra class they offer.

 

Trig is a pre-requisite for pre-calculus in any sequence I have ever seen. He will need trig for physics, too, even biological physics. Trig is high school level math, not college level. If he doesn't do trig he will be remedial in college for math--will that effect his admission?

[Teachin'Mine]

With an interest in zoology, he might be interested in taking Apologia's marine biology after biology. :)

[tex-mex]

Polly,

 

Are you finding that the Key To Algebra is closer to the concepts covered in TT Alg. 1? I haven't checked yet, but was thinking the Key To Algebra would line up more to TT pre-Alg. What do you think?

We've done both. TT Algebra I is closer to the Keys to Algebra. TT Pre-Algebra was not comparable. I used KTA Book one during the TT Pre Algebra. I'm now finally able to use the rest of the KTA books with TT Algebra I (by chapter 60). HTH

[TXMary2]

Trig is a pre-requisite for pre-calculus in any sequence I have ever seen. He will need trig for physics, too, even biological physics. Trig is high school level math, not college level. If he doesn't do trig he will be remedial in college for math--will that effect his admission?

 

NM.....I see what you are saying now. Well, I don't know, but I do know that there is no way we will cover all that math. I think as long as his SAT or ACT scores are good enough that is all that will matter for admission. He can take those pre-req classes for no credit if he needs to. There's no way his father or I could help him and he will completely melt down if he is rushed - he despises math.

Edited April 30, 2010 by TXMary2

[eumyang]

Trig is a pre-requisite for pre-calculus in any sequence I have ever seen.

:001_huh: Although I have seen this too, from what I have read in high school and college catalogs, it's more often the case that Trigonometry is considered a part of Pre-Calculus. Pre-Calculus = College Algebra + Trigonometry. A number of colleges offer Pre-Calculus in a two-semester version (usually one for College Algebra and one for Trigonometry) and a one-semester version.

 

 

69

[kiana]

:001_huh: Although I have seen this too, from what I have read in high school and college catalogs, it's more often the case that Trigonometry is considered a part of Pre-Calculus. Pre-Calculus = College Algebra + Trigonometry. A number of colleges offer Pre-Calculus in a two-semester version (usually one for College Algebra and one for Trigonometry) and a one-semester version.

 

 

69

 

This is what I have more commonly seen as well. It is often the case, however, that one has College Algebra/Trig and then Precalculus. It will be almost the same course material between colleges, but the order may vary. Depending on what the Precalculus course covers (ours covers trigonometry from scratch -- college algebra only does algebra and logarithms really), an introduction to trigonometry may or may not be a prerequisite.

 

For this reason, if my algebra class didn't include trigonometry, I'd make sure that the precalculus course assumed no prior knowledge.

[Carol in Cal.]

This is what I have more commonly seen as well. It is often the case, however, that one has College Algebra/Trig and then Precalculus. It will be almost the same course material between colleges, but the order may vary. Depending on what the Precalculus course covers (ours covers trigonometry from scratch -- college algebra only does algebra and logarithms really), an introduction to trigonometry may or may not be a prerequisite.

 

For this reason, if my algebra class didn't include trigonometry, I'd make sure that the precalculus course assumed no prior knowledge.

 

...if you're going into a university setting, if you're not ready for calculus you're considered remedial in math. So most students who are entering the sciences should be ready to start calculus when they enter college, and if they can't be ready for that, they have to be prepared to have trouble getting straight into a science or engineering major. They may need to go to community college to catch up, or to enroll as an undeclared or humanities major with the hope of switching to what they really want to do later on.