Does anyone supplement Singapore w/ RS

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

We are set on starting DS w/ 1A in the fall. My DH and I really like Singapore. I am also interested in some of the concepts of RS, particularly the abacus. Has anyone every done some of RS, too. Would this be a mistake? Does Singapore ever use the abacus?

 

Thanks

[plain jane]

Singapore does not use the abacus. I think it's a nice idea to use the two programs together. I wouldn't use RS in its entirety, instead I would just add in the AL Abacus activities and the Math Card Games.

[Gratia271]

We contemplated using RS alongside Singapore but never did.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Singapore does not use the abacus. I think it's a nice idea to use the two programs together. I wouldn't use RS in its entirety, instead I would just add in the AL Abacus activities and the Math Card Games.

This is what I'm thinking. I'll have to read through it more. I may use RS in the summer, and start 1A in the fall.

 

any other input???

[plain jane]

You know, another thought could be to use RS and supplement with Singapore's Intensive Problem books and CWP.

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm doing both programs- different children, not both with one ;). I think RS is quite fun for the kids because all the manipulatives (and little writing!) make it more exciting for littles especially. I really like both programs, so I'm glad I get to use each of them. I did, and still would, have a tough time deciding between the two so I understand where you're coming from. :)

[Spy Car]

I do draw on some of the RS materials. We use the abacus, the abacus activities book (in part and compacted and adapted) with the place value and base-10 card. Plus the RS games.

 

I love the way RS introduces place value, and does so early. And am not so keen that Singapore puts this off. I also work on early place value understanding with base-10 flats and Cuisenaire Rods for the same reason.

 

I don't use the re-grouping by 5s taught in RS beyond having my son try to see the pairings on the bi-colored AL abacus.

 

Trying to do all the pedogological instruction in RS would be way too much for me on top of Singapore, so I try to "glean" what I can from this very fine program.

 

Bill

[Mama2two]

This is what I'm thinking. I'll have to read through it more. I may use RS in the summer, and start 1A in the fall.

 

any other input???

 

My son (almost 6) finished EarlyBird around Christmas. I didn't think he was quite ready for 1A, so I got RS A. He is flying thru it and is almost done. He loves it, the abacus has been great and I am so glad I decided to get the program.

 

I also really like Singapore and want to combine Singapore 1A with RightStart B. I think they will combine nicely. I haven't decided exactly how to do it though. Maybe two lessons a week of one and three of the other?

 

So, all this to say I am going to combine too, but not exactly sure how. Hope to hear from some of the others.

[siloam]

We are set on starting DS w/ 1A in the fall. My DH and I really like Singapore. I am also interested in some of the concepts of RS, particularly the abacus. Has anyone every done some of RS, too. Would this be a mistake? Does Singapore ever use the abacus?

 

Thanks

 

Both work from the same whole/parts and base 10 philosophy, so they do work well together.

 

I use all of both programs. Singapore was my first choice but my kids are not mathy and struggled with the logical leaps as well as being very hands on. Now I consider RS our main program and Singapore our supplement.

 

No Singapore does not use an abacus, but the AL Abacus comes with an instruction booklet and you could easily use it with RS. It would be particularly helpful when Singapore stops using the picture manipulatives. Both my oldest two stalled out in 1A for a while because they still needed some sort of manipulatives. This was before RS so I had them work though Miquon then when they came back to Singapore they had developed enough to get though it. With the younger two I have just waited till 2nd grade to start Singapore because it makes my life easier, and because RS is now my main focus.

 

Heather

 

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Thanks for all the great input!!!

[Mama2two]

Heather,

I am interested in how you schedule this since we want to do the same thing. Do you do both in a day? Or one part of the week and one the rest?

 

Both work from the same whole/parts and base 10 philosophy, so they do work well together.

 

I use all of both programs. Singapore was my first choice but my kids are not mathy and struggled with the logical leaps as well as being very hands on. Now I consider RS our main program and Singapore our supplement.

 

No Singapore does not use an abacus, but the AL Abacus comes with an instruction booklet and you could easily use it with RS. It would be particularly helpful when Singapore stops using the picture manipulatives. Both my oldest two stalled out in 1A for a while because they still needed some sort of manipulatives. This was before RS so I had them work though Miquon then when they came back to Singapore they had developed enough to get though it. With the younger two I have just waited till 2nd grade to start Singapore because it makes my life easier, and because RS is now my main focus.

 

Heather

 

[Doubleblessings]

:lurk5:

[siloam]

Heather,

I am interested in how you schedule this since we want to do the same thing. Do you do both in a day? Or one part of the week and one the rest?

Because I don't start the Singapore text till 2nd grade, they do them fairly independently, which I really need.

 

For the first couple years I do go over the pages with them to make sure they understand what is going on (I don't really read the textbook, but I kinda know it backwards and forwards now). Then around 4th grade I start adding the textbook pages as assigned reading. This hasn't been a problem because they have usually covered the topic in RS first, so it is more of a refresher to get them in the right mindset.

 

In 2nd grade I have them do 2 pages, then in 3rd 3 pages, and in 4th on out 4 pages a day.

 

The order I have them go through the books is: Primary A, B; Intensive Practice A, B; Challenging Word Problems.

 

With Right Start I generally do one lesson a day. Though that hasn't always been true. My oldest started RS in 3rd grade and did level B-D at double pace, and just this year did level E at a normal pace. My younger two have also had times where they struggle with concepts, and during those time I won't hesitate to just play games, or when they were first starting doing the warm up one day, the lessons day two, worksheets on day three (if any) and games the day after that (if any). If a lesson had all four components then that was a week worth of work.

 

Then with Right Start I also schedule games for them to play. Here is how my schedule roughly works:

 

Monday: 12yo & 10yo play a game at 10yo's level; 8yo and 7yo play a game on 7yo's level.

Tuesday: 12yo, 10yo and 8yo play a game on 8yo's level; 7yo plays a game with me.

Wednesday: 12yo & 10yo play a game at 10yo's level; 8yo and 7yo play a game at 7yo's level.

Thursday: 12yo plays a solitaire game at what ever level I think she needs; 10yo and 8yo play a game at 8yo's level; I play a game with my 7yo.

 

I hope this makes sense!

 

Heather

[Mama2two]

Thanks Heather. I think I've got it. You do RS every day, normally one lesson but will slow it down and break it up as needed. You add to it every day SM, the number of pages dependent on their age.

 

Got it?

 

Thanks for sharing, it really helps.

[ElizabethB]

I supplement Singapore with RS.

 

I mainly do Singapore, but once every few weeks I do some geometry or abacus work from RS. We also occasionally play the RS games during the school year. We played them more often over the summer to help keep those math facts in the brain. (The summer after K, we took the summer completely off and almost all the math facts jumped out of her brain.)

 

I found the RS abacus especially helpful for my daughter to "see" borrowing and carrying, or regrouping as it is now called. Although, I do like Liping Ma's description of it as "composing and decomposing a higher place value," that did not compute with my 8 year old (she was 7 at the time, but I don't think it would go over any better now!)

[siloam]

Thanks Heather. I think I've got it. You do RS every day, normally one lesson but will slow it down and break it up as needed. You add to it every day SM, the number of pages dependent on their age.

 

Got it?

 

Thanks for sharing, it really helps.

 

Yep, you are much more concise that I am. :D

 

Heather

 

[Mama2two]

Thanks everyone!

Heather, I think I am going to follow your schedule. I may reserve Fri for just games.

[Chocolate Lover]

Just wanted to add another option...We use Singapore Primary Math - read the text, do the workbook pages that relate at this pont two exercises a day, then when that subject chapter is done go to Intensive Practice for the same subject chapter, and follow-up with Challenging Word Problems for the same subject chaper if there is one. In the earlier years we supplemented with Cuisinaire Rods for counting, adding and subtracting primarily,Learning Wrap-Ups for addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and Audio Memory CDs (ie. Addition Songs, Subtraction Songs, Multiplication Songs, and Division Songs). I am still trying to find the Learning Wrap-ups for fractions.

[Mert]

:lurk5:

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

I do draw on some of the RS materials. We use the abacus, the abacus activities book (in part and compacted and adapted) with the place value and base-10 card. Plus the RS games.

 

I love the way RS introduces place value, and does so early. And am not so keen that Singapore puts this off. I also work on early place value understanding with base-10 flats and Cuisenaire Rods for the same reason.

 

I don't use the re-grouping by 5s taught in RS beyond having my son try to see the pairings on the bi-colored AL abacus.

 

Trying to do all the pedogological instruction in RS would be way too much for me on top of Singapore, so I try to "glean" what I can from this very fine program.

 

Bill

Would you mind giving me more details on how often and when you incorporate these with Singapore? I found the activities for AL Abacus book. I'm trying to decide if I should get that or the Level B manual.

Thanks

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Another ? for those that use both programs.....Do you have your child use the 10-1, 10-2 terms for 11, 12, etc... My oldest is very brainy, and I don't think he needs that to understand place value.

[Spy Car]

Another ? for those that use both programs.....Do you have your child use the 10-1, 10-2 terms for 11, 12, etc... My oldest is very brainy, and I don't think he needs that to understand place value.

 

Yes. Or "kind of".

 

When first exposing my son to numbers larger than "10" I did use a naming convention that differed from "English names" but was slightly different the scheme used in either RS or Singapore.

 

11 was One "Ten", One "Unit".

 

365 was 3 "Hundreds", 6 "Tens", 5 "Units".

 

This differs from RS which uses the term "Ones" rather than "Units" (as does Singapore). I think it is somewhat confusing to say 1 Ones or 5 Ones at a time of earliest exposure and where you don't want "semantic" confusion.

 

I also think there are "practical" advantages for the method I used. If you ask:

 

What is the Unit value? You get an answer.

 

If you ask, what is the Ones value, you might get confusion.

 

If you ask, how many Ones? You will probably get "counting". Counting is not the worst-thing in the world, but I wanted to develop the skill of seeing in "groups" from the outset, and went with every means I could to achieve that end, everything else being equal.

 

I do think a modified naming scheme is very helpful to young children. As is the exposure to place value as one of the first things a child encounters in math (kudos to RS and demerits to Singapore in this department).

 

While I did use the AL Abacus to a degree, I modified the RS ideas (including the place value cards) for use with base-10 flats (Hundred values) Orange C. Rods (Ten Values) and the other C Rods (Unit values).

 

And we would model 3 digit numbers "concretely".

 

As we worked though this (and here we are talking about the age 3.5 to 4.5) we would also discuss the "English names" for numbers like twelve or twenty. They were a "part of the discussion" but early on numbers were always discussed as Hs, Ts, and Us.

 

Still early on we added the RS "base-10 cards" and together with the RS place value cards we would build the numbers "pictorially" (rather than just concretely.

 

We also used the abacus. While the RS AL abacus is ingenious in having wires to represent the value of "place", there is somewhat of a leap "developmentally" to understand a bead on one wire is worth 1 Unit, and on another it is worth 1 Ten, 1 Hundred, 1 Thousand, or so on.

 

With flats and rods the differences in values conform to values in physical space as area and volume. So there is a developmental issue to consider.

 

This turned iout to be a longer answer than I intended. And I'm only half-started :lol:

 

The short answer. Yes. I think it is a good idea. I like *my way* better. But either way is better than not. Learning the "English way" is not hampered by learning the "alternate way." And in a short time a young child starting out can learn 4 digit numbers by name (either way) AND actually understand what these numbers mean.

 

Would you mind giving me more details on how often and when you incorporate these with Singapore? I found the activities for AL Abacus book. I'm trying to decide if I should get that or the Level B manual.

Thanks

 

I'm sure my way of using the RS materials is highly-idiosyncratic. I place great store in the ideas I glean from the abacus book, Dr Cotter's other writings and films that can seen online, and playing the games.

 

But I can't follow her script. Part of that is my problem (I'm not a script-follower, I'm an "adapter", so that is what I do) and her instructions and writing are not entirely harmonious with my abilities to quickly assimilate instructions. It is a style thing.

 

Still, I highly value what I get from RS in the "lite" version. I've never had A or B or any other "full version" of RS (to my regret).

 

We played a killer game of "Corners" last night, and I only beat the little-man (5.5) with the last card 325-310 in a stunning "comeback" on my part. No prisoners :D

 

I do love the games. I hate the "instructions", but I love the games. Better still, my son loves the games and for achieving their purpose (learning math facts) they are highly efficacious and fun for a boy who would "droop" if drilled with flash-cards, but comes alive playing a game.

 

You do what works.

 

Bill

Edited April 12, 2010 by Spy Car

[siloam]

Another ? for those that use both programs.....Do you have your child use the 10-1, 10-2 terms for 11, 12, etc... My oldest is very brainy, and I don't think he needs that to understand place value.

 

My oldest was 3rd grade when she did level B, and no she didn't use those terms. We talked about them once, just long enough to make sure she understood place value and moved on.

 

Heather

[Guest]

Because I don't start the Singapore text till 2nd grade, they do them fairly independently, which I really need.

 

For the first couple years I do go over the pages with them to make sure they understand what is going on (I don't really read the textbook, but I kinda know it backwards and forwards now). Then around 4th grade I start adding the textbook pages as assigned reading. This hasn't been a problem because they have usually covered the topic in RS first, so it is more of a refresher to get them in the right mindset.

 

In 2nd grade I have them do 2 pages, then in 3rd 3 pages, and in 4th on out 4 pages a day.

 

The order I have them go through the books is: Primary A, B; Intensive Practice A, B; Challenging Word Problems.

 

With Right Start I generally do one lesson a day. Though that hasn't always been true. My oldest started RS in 3rd grade and did level B-D at double pace, and just this year did level E at a normal pace. My younger two have also had times where they struggle with concepts, and during those time I won't hesitate to just play games, or when they were first starting doing the warm up one day, the lessons day two, worksheets on day three (if any) and games the day after that (if any). If a lesson had all four components then that was a week worth of work.

 

Then with Right Start I also schedule games for them to play. Here is how my schedule roughly works:

 

Monday: 12yo & 10yo play a game at 10yo's level; 8yo and 7yo play a game on 7yo's level.

Tuesday: 12yo, 10yo and 8yo play a game on 8yo's level; 7yo plays a game with me.

Wednesday: 12yo & 10yo play a game at 10yo's level; 8yo and 7yo play a game at 7yo's level.

Thursday: 12yo plays a solitaire game at what ever level I think she needs; 10yo and 8yo play a game at 8yo's level; I play a game with my 7yo.

 

I hope this makes sense!

 

Heather

 

I didn't read through all the posts, so I am sorry if this is repeated. You say you start Singapore in 2nd grade, do you start them at 1a, or do you have them take the placement tests?

 

Thanks!

[siloam]

I didn't read through all the posts, so I am sorry if this is repeated. You say you start Singapore in 2nd grade, do you start them at 1a, or do you have them take the placement tests?

 

Thanks!

 

I start with 1A, but skip the Earlybird books. I never cared for the old version, and RS is solid enough I never felt the need to invest in the new ones.

 

My goal is to keep them ahead in RS, learning the material there first, then using Singapore to provide more written work and to work in critical thinking skills.

 

Heather

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Yes. Or "kind of".

 

When first exposing my son to numbers larger than "10" I did use a naming convention that differed from "English names" but was slightly different the scheme used in either RS or Singapore.

 

11 was One "Ten", One "Unit".

 

365 was 3 "Hundreds", 6 "Tens", 5 "Units".

 

This differs from RS which uses the term "Ones" rather than "Units" (as does Singapore). I think it is somewhat confusing to say 1 Ones or 5 Ones at a time of earliest exposure and where you don't want "semantic" confusion.

I like the unit term much better.

I also think there are "practical" advantages for the method I used. If you ask:

 

........

This turned out to be a longer answer than I intended. And I'm only half-started :lol:

If you had kept writing, I would have kept reading:001_smile:

....................

.....................

 

But I can't follow her script. Part of that is my problem (I'm not a script-follower, I'm an "adapter", so that is what I do) and her instructions and writing are not entirely harmonious with my abilities to quickly assimilate instructions. It is a style thing.

This may be my issue, too. I"m borrowing the B manual right now. I need to read through it more to decide if I can mesh w/ the style.

Still, I highly value what I get from RS in the "lite" version. I've never had A or B or any other "full version" of RS (to my regret).

 

We played a killer game of "Corners" last night, and I only beat the little-man (5.5) with the last card 325-310 in a stunning "comeback" on my part. No prisoners :D

I keep hearing about corners on so many RS threads. Can't wait to play that one.

 

 

You do what works.

 

Bill

Thanks for the post! It was very helpful. I would expect nothing less from someone who likes Spy vs. Spy.

 

Last ? (for now anyway).. Could you give me a summary of what is in the Activities for Abacus book, so I can compare it w/ the B manual I'm reading. I also have the Card Games book to look through as well.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

My oldest was 3rd grade when she did level B, and no she didn't use those terms. We talked about them once, just long enough to make sure she understood place value and moved on.

 

Heather

But you did use them w/ the younger ones, because you do the entire B manual, yes?

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

just bumping to say that we decided to start w/ RS B and we are really enjoying it. I never expected to like RS as much as I do. I really don't get why people say it is so teacher intensive; I find it quite the opposite.