A couple more goat questions

[Nakia]

We are hoping for fall kids. There are two issues that I am still debating in regards to them. Number one is whether to neuter each boy or not. Our goats are not registered, and I am not trying to make money from them. We are doing this for the sole reason of getting goat milk. We do plan to give away (or sell for a small fee) almost all of the babies. We will probably keep one or two does, if there are any. So anyway, how do you decide which ones to neuter and which ones to leave intact?

 

Number two is removing the horn buds. Our does do not have horns, and I love that. Our new buck does have horns, and while he is friendly, those horns make me very nervous. I don't really like the idea of disbudding (who would, right?), but I know it is probably the best thing to do. Any reason why I shouldn't?

 

By the way, the kids will be 75% Nigerian Dwarf and 25% Nubian. Thanks!

[StephanieZ]

Off the cuff, I'd suggest YES to neutering the males. It will make them more likely to find homes as pets. Who wants a smelly male goat as a pet unless they are for breeding. . . which being unregistered "mutts" makes unlikely.

 

I'd ask around goat breeder folks in your region to find out the definitive answers on debudding and neutering. . . with the question being -- what choices make them more likely to find homes?

[Shelly in IL]

Agree 100% with what the previous poster said. No one wants unregistered bucks. Quite frankly, not that many people want registered ones!! They are big, stinky and gross.

[celticmom]

I plan to have some goats at some point in the future and based on what I have read everyone said that disbudding is best and ultimately the most humane option. If the males will not be used for breeding they would probably be more desirable if they were neutered.

[Melinda S in TX]

Horns are dangerous to people, the goat, and to other goats. The only goat we have with horns is our buck, Hershey. His horns are a disbudding job gone bad, but they curve in a cinnamon bun spiral so they can never hurt anything.

 

I just disbudded six kids a couple of days ago. Doing the disbudding is not a fun job, but very necessary and quickly over. IMHO it's worth it to not have to worry about my children getting gored, even if the goat didn't do it meanly.

 

Do castrate any bucklings. They will be more likely to find a home that way. No one wants a stinky buck as a pet. Actually, no one wants a stinky buck at all, but to some he is necessary. We let our bucklings grow for a bit so their urinary track can develope and then we band them.

 

So far this kidding season, we have had two sets of triplets and one set of twins. Marlena has been keeping us on our toes waiting for her babies, but it looks like she will have them tomorrow. We have two more does to kid in mid-May and then we will be done for this season.

 

Blessings,

Melinda

[katemary63]

We raise meat goats. They ALL have horns. The horns are no problem at all. The ONLY people I know who think horns are terrible are dairy goat breeders. :D We do own 4 dairy goats that don't have horns. The horned goats are EASIER to work with since they have a built in handle to hold on to. Even our nine year old works with the goats that have horns. I PROMISE you. Horns are NO BIG DEAL. NO PROBLEM. I find it very odd that there are literally hundreds of thousands of horned goats in meat goat herds all over the world but dairy goat people think horns are so awfull. I am talking about the idea that horns are "dangerous". It's just such a non-issue if you have just a little common sense. We spend hours at a time in the padocks with our horned goats and have no worries at all. As far as fenceing goes, I guess horned goats get hooked up more then dehorned ones, but honestly, we've never had that problem either.

 

Here is an article to read and consider. This author is highly reguarded and writes for Goat World Magazine.

 

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/disbudding.html

 

With all this said, we do own 4 dairy goats and when they have kids, we do disbud them. The reason? We would have a hard time selling them with their horns since all the dairy goat people hate horns. :D If we were to keep them for ourselves, we would not disbud them. We like horns!

 

About casterating (we use banding), it is not good to casterate a young goat until it is a little older, at least three months. What we do here is wean the boys at two months, advertise them for sale and if the new buyer wants the goat banded, then we band him for them. We sell a buckling ever so often unbanded at the buyer's request. Most want thier's banded since they are sold for fair projects and butcher. If I had a buckling that was just not appropriate for breeding stock, even in a commercial setting, I would band it before selling it on principle. If a buckling gets to be 4 months old and has not sold yet, I usually just band him. Once weaned, bucklings over two months must be kept seperate from does and doelings. You can put them back together a couple of weeks after banding if you want.

 

Have fun! Goats are awesome!

[Joy at Home]

We just bought a nanny and her two kids. The kids were disbudded immediately, but the nanny had full horns which we were going to leave intact until she started using them on the kids. There are two options for adult horns. One is to have the vet remove them. They knock them out and saw them off. It is difficult to watch, as the horns are part of the sinus cavity and is painful for them. There is some aftercare to prevent infection (10 day course of subq antibiotics); also, with fly season, ours got maggots in her holes (gross, I know). All in all she'll be fine, will be fully healed in 2-3 months, and most importantly dc will be safe.

 

The other route, which I wish I had done, is to band them (much like banding for neutering). They take a while to fall off, but is much easier for the goat and less risky.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Carrie12345]

 

Number two is removing the horn buds. Our does do not have horns, and I love that. Our new buck does have horns, and while he is friendly, those horns make me very nervous. I don't really like the idea of disbudding (who would, right?), but I know it is probably the best thing to do. Any reason why I shouldn't?

 

 

I am no goat expert, but reading that link made my stomach flip! :001_huh:

All I can say is that I grew up around horned goats and never had or heard of any problems.

[DarlaS]

Former (and hopefully future) dairy goat breeder here. The reason dairy goat breeders "hate horns" is it disqualifies the animal for show. I suspect many more dairy goat breeders show than meat goat breeders. Your child cannot even take a dairy animal to the fair for 4H if it's horned. On a more practical note, it makes it pretty tricky getting them in and out of milking stanchions.

 

Dairy goats are more delicate of build than meat goats and their horns are often narrower (and sharper!) than the stockier meat breeds. There are many good reasons for those dairy goat breeders to do this and it has little to do with not having common sense.

 

Disbudding is a very simple procedure when they are kids, an expensive, dangerous (for the animal) and complicated one when they are adults. If you're going to do it, do it when they're small. Really small--before those buds break through (but do make sure they actually have horns--some goats are naturally hornless.). Have someone do it who knows what they're doing--not necessarily a vet either. Most vets have little experience disbudding goats.

 

All in all, it depends on the breed and it's purpose. If someone's just going to eat them, I would not bother either. Having had "bossy" goats in my herd for years, I can't even imaging the carnage had certain ones had their horns. (I kept that bossy one because she gave lots of milk, had lovely kids, and placed well in shows.)

[Country Mouse]

The "horns vs. no horns" question is one on the most heated debates among goat people. I think it might be a little like the circumcision debate or the kid vax debate :D. Very strong opinions on both sides.

Our nigi does do not have horns, we bought them both like that. The two nigi kids that we bought with our doe were boys. We decided to neuter them and leave their horns. This was on the advice of our goat vet. We haven't had any problems with the horns and even having horned and not horned together has been okay.

That said, I do have a friend who has goats with horns. She uses electric fence and one of her bucks got his horns tangled in the fence and died. As I mentioned before we have the goat panels and the squares in the fence are small so they can't get their heads/horns stuck.

One neat thing my friend did for a dairy doe that she was milking that had horns, she attached ping pong balls with gorilla glue to the tips of the horns. I thought that was a great idea!

Anyway, I think neutering is a good idea and probably you'll have more likelihood of finding homes for disbudded kids, but it is a personal decision :).

[Nakia]

Thanks for your advice.

[katemary63]

I suspect many more dairy goat breeders show than meat goat breeders.

 

The meat goat show industry is gigantic! Kids at our fair and all across the world show horned goats all the time. The only reason the dairy goats must be dehorned is because that's traditional for dairy goats. It's like trying to show a doberman in conformation classes with out his ears cropped. But it's not because they are concerned for the kid's safety. Not at all.

 

 

On a more practical note, it makes it pretty tricky getting them in and out of milking stanchions.

 

They make stanchions for horned goats. We have one and milk our dairy goats on it easily but can also use it for treating our meat goats.

 

There are many good reasons for those dairy goat breeders to do this and it has little to do with not having common sense.

 

When I mentioned "common sense," I was saying that if you use common sense while you are working with horned goats, you will be fine. I was in no way speaking about dairy goat breaders not having common sense, just to be clear! :001_smile:

 

 

Having had "bossy" goats in my herd for years, I can't even imaging the carnage had certain ones had their horns.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. I have "bossy" nannies too. They have horns. There's no carnage. It's normal. Goats are supposed to head butt eachother. There's just no carnage. Only dairy goat people think there would be carnage if their goats had horns. Meat goat people know...there's no carnage! :001_smile:

 

I agree, if you're going to have dairy goats, you need to disbud. But the only reason is because other dairy goat people disbud and want disbudded goats. There really is no other reason then that. IMHO.