TOG users-can you give examples of how you pare it down?

[HappyGrace]

I just got Year 1 (GORGEOUS! Amazing!) and might or might not use it next yr for dd10 and ds7. I might not use it because I don't want history to be so huge next year, with a second grader who I want to spend time doing basic foundational work with, and an older who needs to focus on math.

 

I always thought it's a buffet, I'll pick and choose what I want, no problem-but WOW-it's overwhelming! (All great stuff!) I'm afraid I'll be tempted to put too much focus on history if I attempt TOG. Would love to hear ideas of how to pare it down!

 

I can see that I could just do the readings and SAPs maybe? Also, how do you manage it when there are weeks where you have to read so much-like Genesis 11-50 IN ONE WEEK! :confused:

 

I'm wondering if I should just wait for it til the dc are rhetoric and dialectic. But it's here now and looks so great! My other choice for next yr was HOD CTC, which is all neatly planned out per day for me. But it is expensive! Why spend so much money on something else when I already have the TOG-see my dilemma!? If I could pare down the TOG somehow....

[shanvan]

Some of the things I have done to pare down...

 

 

 

• Used The Children's Story Bible (by Vos) for all Bible readings and done them aloud with both children (This cuts down on the independent reading for Dialectic)
  
• made the rule that we would do absolutely no artys craftsy activities or mapping until I had a better idea of how our weeks would work. Sometime we would look at maps Bible atlas.
  
• Basically in the beginning I focused on choosing read alouds and independent reading (mostly for DS in dialectic). I read the questions in the SAP to them at the beginning of the week, but did not require written answers. Then we had our discussions on Friday.
  

 

 

 

• One at a time, as I felt ready, I added some literature activity pages (we don't always use these), mapping and geography on Weds, then required written answers to AQ for DS, an art activity about once a unit, timeline for DS, and an occasional assignment from the writing (We don't use TOG exclusively for writing at this point--but maybe next year). I really took my time adding these things since I was dealing with health issues during this past year. I'd say we didn't work up to including everything I have listed until we had been using TOG for About 5-6 months.
  

 

 

What helps me pare down the most is realizing that we can include the things I leave out next time around. Assigning independent reading and AQ questions for Ds has been incredibly freeing and leaves me plenty of time to work with my younger DD who really needs me.

 

Whether or not you should use TOG now depends on your situation. If you think your 10yr old is anywhere near dialectic stage then I would say start now in UG, but keep your eye on what is required for dialectic. That way you will have time to prepare for moving her up when you are both ready. You will be able to do it gradually mixing in some UG and some D books and assignments.

 

I would say sit down and put your blinders on (ignoring all the extras) and just plan a week with the readings and discussions.

 

A simple plan might look something like this...

 

Divide the Bible readings by 5 (for each day of the week) and do some each day from a good children's Bible.

 

Mon - read the intro for all levels out loud and read the questions from SAP out loud to each child from the appropriate levels. If you want to you can print them each a copy, but stress that they don't need to write the answers, they just have to be on the lookout for them.

 

Tues - Thurs - reading aloud from your reading selections

 

Wed (or sometime midweek) You read the teacher's notes and underline (in pencil) what you want to cover with your dc so you will be prepared for Friday.

 

Friday - have some tea and cookies (or popcorn--some kind of fun snack) and talk about what you learned using the discussion questions and what you have underlined from the notes.

 

See how it goes. Keep going like this for a few weeks and keep your blinders on until it becomes second nature and you are ready to add to your schedule.

 

hth

 

Shannon

[lovinmomma]

This is an awesome post! Thank you. I'm thinking that I will basically just use SOTW and some of the literature readings (when possible) for the first month or so and then slowly add in other things. I know that some of the weeks don't have SOTW scheduled. I also got Egermeimer's (sp?) Bible to help with the readings.

 

Some of the things I have done to pare down...

 

 

 

• Used The Children's Story Bible (by Vos) for all Bible readings and done them aloud with both children (This cuts down on the independent reading for Dialectic)
  
• made the rule that we would do absolutely no artys craftsy activities or mapping until I had a better idea of how our weeks would work. Sometime we would look at maps Bible atlas.
  
• Basically in the beginning I focused on choosing read alouds and independent reading (mostly for DS in dialectic). I read the questions in the SAP to them at the beginning of the week, but did not require written answers. Then we had our discussions on Friday.
  

 

 

• One at a time, as I felt ready, I added some literature activity pages (we don't always use these), mapping and geography on Weds, then required written answers to AQ for DS, an art activity about once a unit, timeline for DS, and an occasional assignment from the writing (We don't use TOG exclusively for writing at this point--but maybe next year). I really took my time adding these things since I was dealing with health issues during this past year. I'd say we didn't work up to including everything I have listed until we had been using TOG for About 5-6 months.
  

 

What helps me pare down the most is realizing that we can include the things I leave out next time around. Assigning independent reading and AQ questions for Ds has been incredibly freeing and leaves me plenty of time to work with my younger DD who really needs me.

 

Whether or not you should use TOG now depends on your situation. If you think your 10yr old is anywhere near dialectic stage then I would say start now in UG, but keep your eye on what is required for dialectic. That way you will have time to prepare for moving her up when you are both ready. You will be able to do it gradually mixing in some UG and some D books and assignments.

 

I would say sit down and put your blinders on (ignoring all the extras) and just plan a week with the readings and discussions.

 

A simple plan might look something like this...

 

Divide the Bible readings by 5 (for each day of the week) and do some each day from a good children's Bible.

 

Mon - read the intro for all levels out loud and read the questions from SAP out loud to each child from the appropriate levels. If you want to you can print them each a copy, but stress that they don't need to write the answers, they just have to be on the lookout for them.

 

Tues - Thurs - reading aloud from your reading selections

 

Wed (or sometime midweek) You read the teacher's notes and underline (in pencil) what you want to cover with your dc so you will be prepared for Friday.

 

Friday - have some tea and cookies (or popcorn--some kind of fun snack) and talk about what you learned using the discussion questions and what you have underlined from the notes.

 

See how it goes. Keep going like this for a few weeks and keep your blinders on until it becomes second nature and you are ready to add to your schedule.

 

hth

 

Shannon

[bethben]

I am doing TOG with a K next year. i am focusing on the literature, and maybe add in a history core reading each week. We won't do the student pages because of his age and will do an activity every other week. I don't do the read alouds suggested, but maybe will do a read aloud from the UG literature. History for him is gravy--he needs the majority of his day on the basics.

 

For ds who is 9 currently, I schedule out (I tend to schedule like a sonlight grid - he reads something every day) all the history core, history in depth, and literature which he reads himself. He also does the student page. We do an activity once every two weeks. I haven't done the read alouds and sometimes not even the church history just because of little miss 2 year old who likes to scream if she's being ignored. He spends less than 1/2 hour on his history and I count it as his literature/scheduled reading class. Next year, I have tentative plans to also include his writing into the mix - so he gets a lot of the basics included in his history - no seperate classes- all streamlined.

 

Beth

[johnandtinagilbert]

When you choose books, completely ignore page 5 (the second page of suggestions). Just use the Core/Text and the literature. You decide about activities (they really are very simple for the LG, UG).

 

Keep the 10yo in UG so you can settle into TOG and so you can taste D a little at a time. UG to D is a big jump, so get comfy with the materials before making the switch.

 

Just print out a teacher's map so you can refer to it while reading, and one for the 10yo so she can do the same. You can practically ignore geography if you need the time in your day.

 

Divide the reading by 5 days and if it's a heavy week, spread it out as far as you need to. Some TOG weeks may take 2 to finish, while others are very light.

 

Give the 10yo the SAP and highlight what you expect from her.

 

You can choose a project day (say W or Th) and do the same projects, i.e. as a family. Again, they are very simple.

 

Use narrations in history as writing practice and reinforcement for Language Arts (copy work, narration, identifying parts of speech)

 

TOG can be very easy if you follow this plan. No more difficult than SOTW, MOH, etc.

 

If you are only using LG and UG, you can skip the teacher's notes (other than using it as your answer key for literature worksheets).

 

This should take you about 20 min/wk to plan, make copies, order books.

 

HTH,

[siloam]

That is why I end up taking several weeks to do a TOG week. I don't have the ability to say no. :blushing:

 

Ok I do but I don't want to. :D

 

Though I am thinking with the next round that I am going to have to. I shouldn't spend 6.5 years on the next history round.

 

Ignoring the extras at the beginning is more or less what I did. I didn't even do Literature for the first about 8 months.

 

Heather

[HappyGrace]

This was an AWESOME help!! Love the detailed instructions!! I printed some of this out to help me focus.

 

I'm still not sure if I even want to attempt it. I stuck it under my desk for now and will pull it out again to look at in a couple weeks when there isn't so much else going on and I have time to pick through it better.

[TracyP]

I think you got some great advice already. I am doing Year 1 now and Unit 1 is almost all Bible. You could do a read aloud from a children's Bible 1x each week for both kids. My 6 yo draws a picture and captions it (I do the writing). Have 10 year old write a narration. Give 10 year old the UG literature book and corresponding worksheet. IF you have time later in the week glance through the SAP's at the ?'s listed and have a discussion and maybe read aloud from one of the other suggested books. Easy!

 

I would also suggest just jumping in. I think it can be hard to "get" until you start.

[frankcassiesmom]

Okay this is what we do. And note that I am VERY organizationally challenged AND paring down is a huge weak point of mine. And I LOVE TOG and make it work.

 

A, I find as many of the books and supplemental books as I can at the library. I don't try to pare down. BUT (a big BUT) they aren't required to read them all. At the beginning of each week, I put post-its (I stole this idea from a long-time TOG user friend) on each book. It says 1, 2, or 3/fun and the pages to read. Number 1 books are to be read first. They're core/spine books. These they will do narrations or writing assignments, etc. from most of the time. Outlining as well. Number 2 books are important but more enriching. For example, my 10yo would read the section in Usborne's World History first. Then his number 2 books would be "Life in Ancient Mesopotamia" or something like that. Literature books are in this group as well. Number 3 books are ones I consider extra like picture Tower of Babel books, or craft books like Ancient Egyptians and Their Neighbors.

 

I don't schedule the books out. They have time they have to read their history books each day. They know what order to read them in and what pages. They know if they don't get around to the more frivolous books at the end (which they love) it's their fault :) They read most of all the books every week :)

 

B, I schedule my days so we have a general routine of what we do each day. It's a little chunk each day + reading. And that's it. We schedule our days like this.

Day 1 - Introduction. I put the vocab and people, etc. words on the white board. I read perhaps a section of the Teacher's Notes and if they're is a SOTW type reading I do that aloud while my oldest copies down the vocab words. Reading books are handed out. I know most don't but I do map work on this day because I like them to have a mental image about where they're reading about. I LOVE INTRODUCTION DAY! I get SO much out of the way on this day. Maps - done. Vocab, etc. words handed out - done. Reading assignments handed out - done. Introducing them to the material - done. This is my favorite day work wise. The rest of the week we get to just read and enjoy.

Day 2 - I do any read aloud work I want to do. They start on their readings. This is work light day but heavier reading day. It's also when I do a heavy reading time to my 6yo. My older one will often do a summary/written narration of a section he's reading this day. All others will just read or listen. We also do SOTW CDs on this day.

Day 3 - Prewriting starts and rough draft of writing started today or tomorrow depending. Narrations are done for younger ones.

Day 4 - discussions done for younger ones. Finishing rough draft or starting final draft worked on for older ones. SAP pages done

Day 5 - Final draft writing due. Discussion with older one. AND most importantly, the white board "test" where we read off word by word off the white board and erase if they get it right. The goal is to try and erase the entire board. If we don't know a word we look it up in the dictionary.

 

So we do Intro, Read, Narration/writing, Discussions/SAP, Discussions/Wrap-up. Once we eased into a schedule it's been SO much easier.

 

Okay I rambled. In terms of paring down... I get all the books I can get :) BUT I choose what they HAVE to read and let them devour the rest at their leisure. I just give them assigned reading time where they have to read and it just works out that they read them all :D

[Janice in NJ]

The purple Teaching Objectives pages list your goals for each subject for each level. That's the target that you are shooting for. Everything else represents tools for accomplishing that.

 

Read options.

Think options.

Write options.

 

* The reading options are listed in the first yellow 2-page spread. (pg 4-5)

* The thinking options are summarized in the second yellow 2-page spread. (pg 6-7). These are expanded in the Student Activity Pages for the student and again in the teacher's notes for you.

* The writing options are listed in the red pages according to writing level. (pgs 8-10). The writing topics are listed here. The how-to-accomplish-this-writing-assignment complete with grading advice and rubrics are expanded in the Writing Aids book and CD. (And don't miss the Loom Document: Writing Level Overview. It lists all of the types of writing covered for each of the twelve levels. Scanning that list will help you place your child: What do we need to work on this year? Do we have any gaps? It's a great scope-n-sequence page - easily printed to include in the child's permanent file along with copies of his completed assignments.)

* Page 11 gives you a nice overview of the week. I read it aloud to my kids before we begin our planning session. Our planning session is when we sit down with our materials and their planners to pick and choose from among the read, think, write options for the week. It's also great to read aloud again before we begin our discussion.

 

I would start with history for the week.

Sit with your week plan and review the pages listed above. Ultimately for each child, you are searching for three things in each week-plan:

 

* One Reading Item You can add more as you go; in the beginning just read from the History:Core assignment. Maybe give them the History: In-depth assignment to read in bed - for fun. :001_smile:

 

* One Thinking Item This is where the child interacts, engages, connects, explores, chats about, thinks aloud about what he read about. Important learning process. Learning to do this well (and often) is a great life-skill. [it's why I love the boards. I read about education and I try things, but very often I don't understand homeschooling (what I'm doing and why) until I TALK about it with someone else. ;)] TOG: For D or R level this might be Accountability Questions answered on paper with Thinking Questions discussed together. For younger kids this might be a narration page for their notebook or a craft or project - while they are working on their craft project you could ask them questions about what they read. "So tell me: you read a book about Sitting Bull yesterday. Who was he? What happened to him?"

 

Your Teacher's Notes contain info on the Plains Indian Wars, Sitting Bull, and others - you can just buzz through this before you casually bring it up with your kids at the LG/UG level. You can also check out the D & R levels, you will also find some interesting discussion ideas about how people of different cultures engage. The heart of some of these questions can be easily approached with younger kids. "So why do you think the white Americans and the Native Americans couldn't get along?" This is easy enough to flesh out with any child who has fought over a toy or fought for a turn on the slide at the playground. :001_smile: However, don't choose TOO many thinking items. Move slowly in this direction. There are so many to choose from; this is the biggest area where I think folks fall down with TOG and can't get up. Doing too much is not good. Just put some on your plate for the week. You'll get better at it and then you can add in maps, and questions, and projects, and unit-long projects, and videos, and _____. Once you hit your groove it's easy to generate interesting educational fodder; it keeps history lively. :001_smile:

 

* One Writing Item I would heartily suggest that you make it your goal to begin the weekly writing assignment as soon as possible. And THIS is the reason that I think it is best NOT to do too much in that thinking department. Don't get hung up with all of those choices. Be strong. Keep the thinking choices under control. (They're fun, they're interesting, and there are so many that I tend to think that I'm not getting my money's worth unless I use a bunch of them. Not true! I'm getting my money's worth when I pick GREAT thinking options that educate each child for each week. I'm paying for a curriculum that offers me a ton of options in a compact form so I don't have to spend a ton of time flipping through alternative materials or scanning message boards or Google for "thinking" material. That's what I'm paying for. Someone has pulled a ton of options together for me - and they ALL happen to center around the week's topic. I pick the ones I want and I ignore the rest. It's a bit like going to the grocery store. No one in her right mind would feel compelled to put forty-seven different kinds of meat in the cart just because they are there. And I have no desire to go to a grocery store that only offers me three choices either. I go to a store that offers me choices because sometimes I'm in a hurry and just want to cook what I know, and sometimes I'm feeling more adventurous; I want to mix it up so I want to try something different. It's all there. Same store. They've done all the hunting around and have put it all in one long case.) TOG: Learning to write well takes time. And there is so much to explore in the world of writing. It pulls so many skills together for younger kids AND it pulls together and solidifies so many ideas for older kids. It's educationally compact - accomplishes a LOT into one endeavor. While you don't have to do the writing assignments for the first week or two or three, I would seriously shoot toward that mark by at least week four. If you don't ultimately get your reading and thinking choices scaled down to "reasonable" for your family, it's very hard to feel successful with the program unless you can see that trajectory of growth that comes from completing the process. Read. Think. Write. Writing is hard. It requires the student to synthesize and sort what they have learned at his/her learning level. It is hard. The process requires lots of encouragement. But persevering toward progress pays rich dividends. Learning to write well will improve the reading and thinking skills. It's really effective. And it does wonders with the Mom's self-confidence. I always feel like we are making progress when the 3R's are rocking in our homeschool. I can't possibly convey with words what that confidence does to boost the emotional environment in this house. It means a lot. I would shoot to find a way to get to that Writing Assignment as soon as possible. You'll feel closure. I think that's the biggest frustration that folks have with TOG; they try to fit in too much read and think. But when the writing isn't happening, long-term there is an eventual gut feeling that bubbles up. Something is wrong. Something isn't working. This is too much. Because it is. You're working HARD, you're logging tons of time, but you're not accomplishing your "output" goals. Find a way to fit that writing piece in there; by design it will force your reading and thinking options into their proper perspective. :001_smile:

 

A Disclaimer: I've been at this for a while. Sometimes I don't use any of the TOG read, think, write options. I've learned to cover a topic the way I want and how I want. And I've learned how to let educational priorities dictate our week. My older ds is taking his SAT this morning. We've been doing a lot of test prep this week. So for wk 26 of TOG, he has been reading a book by Albert Marrin on Sitting Bull; he's watched a couple of lectures from the Teaching Company History of the US set. No questions. No writing. None. :001_smile: No face-time with Mom over history. We'll sit down on Monday and read through the teacher's notes together - including the World Book articles. I'm sure he'll want to tell me something that he's read. Something always bubbles up. Next week he will finish up the Marrin biography and read a short YA library book about the Unification of Germany (It's a less-time-consuming read than the suggested TOG title). Again - no questions on paper and no writing assignment. We have some loose ends to tidy up - things that have had to shift in order to spend extra time taking practice tests over the last couple of weeks. We'll be back on track with read, think, write when we start week 28. And please note that history isn't the only subject that takes a hit when something comes up. :001_smile: That's why I had no problem allowing it to take the hit this time.

 

Another goal that I have for my high-schoolers. I want them to read at least one "regular" library book on a topic over the course of each unit. An adult book - but not necessarily super challenging. Something along the lines of Mayflower by Philbrick. Week 27 of TOG covers inventions and how they changed life for regular folks in the 19th century. I found a copy of The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind at our library. Not from the time period. But an engaging book about the power of invention. My older ds will enjoy it. One of our educational goals is to familiarize our kids with the library: authors, publishers, etc. I want them to be life-long learners. Books are to be enjoyed outside of school. So sometimes I shift a TOG reading assignment in order to accommodate books that I know my kids will connect with. TOG provides good choices; sometimes I find a better choice for my kids. I'm in charge. TOG lets me be in charge. Read. Think. Write. That's why the program works for this family!

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Elinor Everywhere]

* One Writing Item I would heartily suggest that you make it your goal to begin the weekly writing assignment as soon as possible. And THIS is the reason that I think it is best NOT to do too much in that thinking department. Don't get hung up with all of those choices. Be strong. Keep the thinking choices under control. (They're fun, they're interesting, and there are so many that I tend to think that I'm not getting my money's worth unless I use a bunch of them.

TOG: Learning to write well takes time. And there is so much to explore in the world of writing. It pulls so many skills together for younger kids AND it pulls together and solidifies so many ideas for older kids. It's educationally compact - accomplishes a LOT into one endeavor. While you don't have to do the writing assignments for the first week or two or three, I would seriously shoot toward that mark by at least week four. If you don't ultimately get your reading and thinking choices scaled down to "reasonable" for your family, it's very hard to feel successful with the program unless you can see that trajectory of growth that comes from completing the process. Read. Think. Write. Writing is hard. It requires the student to synthesize and sort what they have learned at his/her learning level. It is hard. The process requires lots of encouragement. But persevering toward progress pays rich dividends. Learning to write well will improve the reading and thinking skills. It's really effective. And it does wonders with the Mom's self-confidence.

 

Janice, can you answer a question about TOG Writing? I find that many of WA's assignments don't have my kids writing about the topic, so I don't understand how Writing solidifies their thinking. For example, my son is UG and he will sometimes be writing a personal narrative, or keeping a journal. How do you tweak this so it requires them to synthesize what they've learned and reinforces the information? Do you change the assignment? Have them narrate instead? Do the WA and quit worrying about it? :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks - I love your posts on TOG; they're really helpful.

[HappyGrace]

I can't thank you enough for this food for thought. I have printed out several posts and will use them when I sit down to go over TOG carefully to see if I can manage to pare it down. I still get panicky when I think of it though! I don't know why it's so overwhelming to me, but I know I'm in good company because there is actually a well-known word for it-TOG BRAIN FOG! :)

[shanvan]

Janice, can you answer a question about TOG Writing? I find that many of WA's assignments don't have my kids writing about the topic, so I don't understand how Writing solidifies their thinking. For example, my son is UG and he will sometimes be writing a personal narrative, or keeping a journal. How do you tweak this so it requires them to synthesize what they've learned and reinforces the information? Do you change the assignment? Have them narrate instead? Do the WA and quit worrying about it? :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks - I love your posts on TOG; they're really helpful.

 

:bigear: I'd like to know how Janice answers this question too.

[shanvan]

bump :lurk5:

[Janice in NJ]

I'm guessing that you are referring to some of the level 4/5 writing assignments. Most states require state history, so you would plow through that in either year 4 or year 5. I'm guessing that's why they slipped "journal writing" in there for the alternate year. (You don't have to include journal writing in order to cover all of the academic writing that a student needs. :001_smile:) But most "writing curriculum" includes it so TOG slipped it in there. I would try it for maybe a week. And then I would write another report (See wks 11 - 13); just pick a topic that the student is studying. Go with them to the library and help them pick out some books. And repeat the report writing lessons from earlier in the year plan. New material. Practicing the same skills.

 

Or rework through compare/contrast or persuasive (Wk 14).

 

Personal narrative? Those fit nicely with the topics. Example: traveling west in a wagon. What was it like? Research. Then write about one day on the trail - a short story. You don't HAVE to do these creative kinds of assignments, but they can be great fun. Especially if you grab a a narrative 32 page picture book from the library. Discuss why these kinds of narrative stories work. Why are they fun to read even thought they are short? Look at the details that WA encourages your child (Does the story have a beginning, middle, end? Does it include info about the characters? What does it tell you about the setting? etc.) Now try it. :001_smile:

 

BUT if you don't want to cover personal narratives, you can easily make some notebook pages instead. Or you can do a science report. Or you can write about the literature that you are reading. There are tons of ways to tie output (writing) to input (reading and thinking) even if you don't feel like doing the WA assignment.

 

Does that help?

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Elinor Everywhere]

There are tons of ways to tie output (writing) to input (reading and thinking) even if you don't feel like doing the WA assignment.

 

Does that help?

 

 

 

What? I have to *think*? :lol: Ok, that all makes perfect sense - I tend to be a "rule follower" too much, and with each curriculum I have to give myself permission to break from what it says sometimes & do my own thing. With some curricula I feel no qualms about changing it up, but somehow with TOG I cut rather than change.

 

Thanks for your very commonsense answer - I really appreciate your input.

 

Diane

[WTMindy]

I love TOG, but honestly, I wouldn't have given up the four years we did of SOTW!! So, if I wanted to pare down TOG I would probably just do the SOTW sections and do a project to go along with it. My kids loved the history projects we did and it gave them a real love of history. Now the second rotation through we are doing TOG.

[HappyGrace]

Thanks, Mindy-this will be our second cycle with dd10. I loved the first two SOTWs, but we didn't love 3 and 4 as much, and the AG wasn't as helpful for us with those two either.

 

Thanks, Janice, for the writing info!