Classical Conversation information

[rwjx2khsmj]

We went to an organizational meeting for Classical Conversations last night. I'd never heard of the program but the meeting info intrigued me. I liked what I saw but I'm wondering about value added to my program and for my children.

 

So my questions are:

 

Is it worthwhile overall?

Is there a particular part of the program that is better than others? I have kids of all ages so we'd be looking at K through high school

Is getting involved with a beginning program worth the investment? It's pricey for 4 children and it appears as if none of the directors or tutors would have experience.

Will I feel as if I've given up my homeschooling freedom if I get into this?

[macdaddi]

I can't answer all of your questions, but we just gave up on CC after just one semester (and unfortunately we'd already paid for the whole year) b/c it works well for some of my boys, but not all of them. The program itself was fine, but I had trouble with some of my kids at the same time. For instance, the 4yo didn't want to go to class, then the 10yo would talk out of turn in class, and the 6yo needed help finding his supplies. It seemed like I was running between their classes trying to constantly "put out fires" with my boys that the whole program became too overwhelming and I decided we'd all be happier back at home. It wasn't even worth going for the morning session, in my opinion. But, my kids are still young and it may be easier when they're older.

[outtamyshell]

We had a great experience with the CC Challenge curriculum. Our group was established, and our tutors experienced. But I wish we had been there with them from the beginning. We started homeschooling sophmore year in high school. CC offered the perfect cross between private school and homeschooling. I modified some writing and reading assignments and stayed involved enough to put the grades on a transcript. But DD was able to feel some independence from me with her schoolwork. The pace of the curriculum pushed us. We never would have finished as much those two years if we didn't have the group to keep up with. And the Friday meetings were able to provide a good social outlet for dd. There are a lot of online courses available for high school, but not everyone is a good fit for online courses. CC was exactly what we needed to prepare dd for college courses.

[Moxie]

What exactly do they teach? There is a meeting here that I'd like to attend but I'd like a little information about it first.

[JVA]

Check out their website and contact a state manager:

 

www.classicalconversations.com

 

We're in our 4th year with CC 3 years in Foundations (doing all 3 cycles) and now our son is enrolled in Challenge A. We really like it.

 

To answer one of the questions put forth:

It does not take away parents' autonomy and freedom. You can incorporate as much of what is presented as you want- especially at the Foundations level. Even at the Challenge level, you can pick and choose which subjects (seminars) you want your child to take. It gives as much of a backbone or foundation as YOU want.

There have been some other threads discussing CC before on these boards.

[monalisa]

We've done CC this year for the first time. To answer the question of what it teaches, it depends on the age of the student.

 

For K-6, the Foundations program is purely grammar memory work in History, Latin, Science, Math, English, Geography. Each time you meet you also do a fine arts time (music or art depending on the week) and a science experiment. THis is a once a week 9 -12 thing, meeting 24 weeks per year.

 

For 3-6, there is an afternoon program called Essentials that focuses on writing using IEW and practice in math facts (this is probably too simplified, but its what I know about it)

 

Challenge classes are Jr. High through High School, getting in to the Rhetoric stage of classical education.

 

The website will tell you lots more.

 

If it was the 1st year for a campus, I am not sure I'd do it. This is the 3rd year for the campus I'm part of, and just now a lot of the bugs are getting ironed out. If you go into with eyes wide open realizing it could be iffy, it might be OK for you. But brand new campus with brand new tutors who've never done it before would not be worth $450 in my opinion (unless I was someone helping start it). IMHO, I do not think this is a program that is great for little kids (4's and 5's). You need a REALLY creative tutor to teach this type of material to this age child.

 

I think it is a really good program overall. But there are opportunity costs. You're not giving up autonomy, but you're giving up most of a day every week for 24 weeks to be there (even if you only do the morning program). That's been a struggle for me, because with the other 4 days I need to spend on school I feel like its hard to take a library day for example. For a new campus, I might give it a year to get established, esp. considering your investment will be about $1200+.

[ChristusG]

Could someone explain to me exactly what Classical Conversations is? I looked around on the website but nothing told me exactly what it is.

 

Do you have to use their curriculum? Is there set classes that you take? Do you do homework from the classes at home? I'm not exactly homeschooling classically ::::ducking to avoid the tomatoes:::: so would it be of any use to me?

 

Right now we are part of a homeschool group that meets once a week for four hours. My daughter is in a class of about 10 kids near her age. They switch classes every 30 minutes and do something new.....art, science, book club, group game time, show and tell, etc. They are with the same teacher each week. We do field trips a few times a month with the group. It's a childrens center so there is all kinds of art supplies in the art room, trampolines and bars and rings in the gym, kid sized fitness equipment, etc. So it is really neat. Would Classical Conversations be able to take the place of this group? Do they do field trips?

 

I keep hearing about CC but I have no idea what it is.

[newlifemom]

We went to an organizational meeting for Classical Conversations last night. I'd never heard of the program but the meeting info intrigued me. I liked what I saw but I'm wondering about value added to my program and for my children.

 

So my questions are:

 

Is it worthwhile overall? I think so, but it will be what you put into it at home

Is there a particular part of the program that is better than others? I have kids of all ages so we'd be looking at K through high school Again, it depends on what you are looking for. How much time investment you want to make. For your younger children, it can simply be a supplement. For your older, it will be the core of their homeschool.

Is getting involved with a beginning program worth the investment? It's pricey for 4 children and it appears as if none of the directors or tutors would have experience. [Not having experience directing is one thing, and not having any classical education experience is another. Sure there are bumps along the way in a new program, but that shouldn't deter you. These directors were screened by state managers and given training via meetings, online seminars and practicums. They are also, strongly encouraged to stay up to date with current classical home education methodolgy through books like A Thomas Jefferson Education, Amusing Ourselves to Death, Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning, The Well-Trained Mind you get the picture. Is there a learning curve, yes. Do the directors and tutors work hard to overcome that curve? They should.

Will I feel as if I've given up my homeschooling freedom if I get into this?It is difficult not to with the olders, to a degree. Participating in a Challenge Program will be the bulk of your high school and jr high age children. You can opt out of some of the classes, but it really helps for integration of subject material if they are in most of the seminars. However, you the parent are their teacher. You can control the assignments and make changes if you feel it is necessary. Plus, you will be evaluation all of your kid's work, so it isn't as if you are suddenly 'hands off' their education. For Foundations, you can supplement with CC or turn it into your entire curriculum by fleshing out their memory work for the week. I chose the former, only because it would mess up my history sequence :o.

 

 

 

FWIW, this is my 2nd year with CC. Last year I was a tutor in Foundations. This year I am a Challenge Director. I really enjoy it and the accountibility it has given me. My kids have learned so much I am reeling. This program is in its 2nd year and we are only getting better. Ultimately, only you can decide if it is worth it. It is very costly, but I keep saying to myself that it is an investment. :D

[dsacco]

We are looking into it as well. We have 1 close by that will be starting it's 3rd year, but has actually gotten too big and is having a new branch start up (which is what we would be joining at this point).

 

I am starting to buy little pieces and parts to work with and see how it will work for us. My son would start in Challenge A which I think will be an eye-opener for him, but in a good way. My daughter will be doing Foundations and Essentials.

 

I went to the meeting on Wednesday with my 50 million questions and they were able to answer them all without a problem and didn't think I was a pain :) I know the women who are running it which really helps.

 

Just don't be afraid to ASK questions - and also..... don't feel pressure to sign up that moment. I heard one person who went to a meeting and really felt pressure - "We ALWAYS fill up quickly..... you NEED to sign up today...." that type of stuff and then regretted it because she really couldn't afford it.

 

I plan on tutoring a Foundations class or Essentials. I will be looking over the materials to see which I would feel more comfortable working with. THAT is what will actually pay for my tuition in time.

 

Personally I'm excited about it - nervous as well. DH isn't thrilled it's ANOTHER program (3 in 3 years - but I only changed from LifePacs because HE didn't like them - LOL)....but I think he'll see the results we both want, especially with DS entering in the High School time.

[dsacco]

We are looking into it as well. We have 1 close by that will be starting it's 3rd year, but has actually gotten too big and is having a new branch start up (which is what we would be joining at this point).

 

I am starting to buy little pieces and parts to work with and see how it will work for us. My son would start in Challenge A which I think will be an eye-opener for him, but in a good way. My daughter will be doing Foundations and Essentials.

 

I went to the meeting on Wednesday with my 50 million questions and they were able to answer them all without a problem and didn't think I was a pain :) I know the women who are running it which really helps.

 

Just don't be afraid to ASK questions - and also..... don't feel pressure to sign up that moment. I heard one person who went to a meeting and really felt pressure - "We ALWAYS fill up quickly..... you NEED to sign up today...." that type of stuff and then regretted it because she really couldn't afford it.

 

I plan on tutoring a Foundations class or Essentials. I will be looking over the materials to see which I would feel more comfortable working with. THAT is what will actually pay for my tuition in time.

 

Personally I'm excited about it - nervous as well. DH isn't thrilled it's ANOTHER program (3 in 3 years - but I only changed from LifePacs because HE didn't like them - LOL)....but I think he'll see the results we both want, especially with DS entering in the High School time.

[rwjx2khsmj]

Could someone explain to me exactly what Classical Conversations is? I looked around on the website but nothing told me exactly what it is.

 

Do you have to use their curriculum? Is there set classes that you take? Do you do homework from the classes at home? I'm not exactly homeschooling classically ::::ducking to avoid the tomatoes:::: so would it be of any use to me?

 

Would Classical Conversations be able to take the place of this group? Do they do field trips?

 

I keep hearing about CC but I have no idea what it is.

 

In my understanding, Classical Conversations is a one day program that supports a classical homeschool approach by providing concentrated memory work in a fun group setting + art and science. That's at the first level (Foundations). The second level is for Logic stage kids and provides grammar and writing instruction using IEW products (Foundationis + Essentials). The last segment is Challenge and that provides Rhetoric stage instruction. Each class has a maximum size and a tutor. Parents are required to stay in the Foundations and Essentials classes to help the tutor.

 

The program seems very structured and would require (be enhanced by) continuing the learning with reinforcement at home.

 

It's pricey beginning at $300+ per child for the year and going up to $1100+ at the Rhetoric stage.

 

The memory work is set on a 3 year rotation. While you wouldn't HAVE to do the same rotation at home, it certainly makes sense to keep it all together. The rotation doesn't include any math other than math facts so you'd be on your own for that.

 

The presenter didn't call it homework, she called it reinforcement. Really you'd do your "regular" stuff at home and work on the memory work for the next week at the Foundations level. After that, I think you'd be reinforcing all the time. Please, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

Whether Classical Conversations would work as a replacement for your current group would depend on whether you were looking for a relaxed, social learning group or a challenging, structured learning group.

[angela in ohio]

In my understanding, Classical Conversations is a one day program that supports a classical homeschool approach by providing concentrated memory work in a fun group setting + art and science. That's at the first level (Foundations). The second level is for Logic stage kids and provides grammar and writing instruction using IEW products (Foundationis + Essentials). The last segment is Challenge and that provides Rhetoric stage instruction. Each class has a maximum size and a tutor. Parents are required to stay in the Foundations and Essentials classes to help the tutor.

 

I would just correct a few things (I've been a CC Director for two years.) Challenge is not distinctly Rhetoric level. Challenge A & B are a mix of Grammar & Dialectic, and Challenge 1-4 are a mix of Dialectic & Rhetoric (and even some Grammar!)

 

Also, parents are required to stay in class so that they can learn the material and see classical teaching modeled by the tutor. Although one parent may be rotated in as a helper each week, especially in a class of younger students, that is not really why they are in class.

[Woodland_Mom]

 

Also, parents are required to stay in class so that they can learn the material and see classical teaching modeled by the tutor. Although one parent may be rotated in as a helper each week, especially in a class of younger students, that is not really why they are in class.

 

 

Parents stay in the classroom for the Foundations Children (age preK - 6th grade) and the Essentials Classes (Grammar & Writing program for 4th - 6th graders.)

 

This is our 3rd year doing CC. It has been the one area that has truly been consistent with our homeschooling journey. I tutored the 5th & 6th grade students for two years and now I am a Challenge A tutor (students are about 12 yrs. old). We love CC!!

 

Classical Conversations trains their tutors and it is a very structured program. I recomend that you try to attend an open house near you so you can actually see and experience a CC group for yourself. The time spent at CC is very productive, which I appreciate.

 

CC is not a curriculum. Some poeple center thier homeschool around what CC is doing, and some people use CC as an "added extra." It is a program that helps to equip parents to educate their children using a classical model of education from a Biblical worldview. The foundations program focuses on memory work. Kid (and parents) learn many things by using many different memorization techniques. Foundations classes also enclude 30 minutes of science experiment time and 30 minutes of time doing fine arts (6 weeks each of drawing, tin whistle, art projects modeled after masters, and music appreciation). Another big part of Foundations is the time allotted to oral presentations. Each week, students have the opportunity to get in front of his/her class to present a little "mini speech / oral presentation".

 

CC has its own grammar program and they use IEW for writing.

 

The programs for 7th - 12th graders is called Challenge. This is a drop off program, but parents are certainly welcome in the classroom. An entire year of lesson plans is provided, so this is more like a curriculum. Students take six 1-hour seminars each week and then spend the rest of their week working on the assignments and preparing for classroom discussion time.

 

I don't know if this link has already been shared, but here is a helpful link:

 

http://www.classicalconversations.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=170&Itemid=284

 

Here is some helpful info about Challenge:

 

http://www.classicalconversations.com/images/stories/pdffiles/PromoMaterials/Challenge%20one-page.pdf

 

Best wishes to you!

[Eleni]

I am wondering though...how is science presented? Is it a Creationist viewpoint..and which one? Can science be opted out of?

[AFwife Claire]

I am wondering though...how is science presented? Is it a Creationist viewpoint..and which one? Can science be opted out of?

 

It's not either, really. There is science memory work, and that is just random science facts (parts of an animal cell, types of leaves and leaf parts, 3 kinds of rocks, etc.). There is no going deeper in any philosophical way. Then the science experiments are just basic "kitchen science" experiments, and they are mainly to demonsrate the scientific method. I really can't think of any instance where anything young earth/old earth would come up. We are very definitely young earth creationists, and I am also a tutor, and I just can't think of anything!

[angela in ohio]

I am wondering though...how is science presented? Is it a Creationist viewpoint..and which one? Can science be opted out of?

 

At the Foundations level, there isn't a view taken, although the tutors are encouraged to work God in throughout their day, so the tutor's own view may come through furing science. There wouldn't be a way to opt out of any part of the program at the Foundations level.

 

The timeline is YE (Creation, 6000-4000 BC) on campuses that use the dates.

 

At the Challenge level, it's definitely Creationist. (You can look at the Challenge catalog pages at their site and see the resources used.) You could opt out of science, but it is highly recommended that you take the four "core" classes, and science is one of them. It will come up in Rhetoric, as well, in Challenge A (we use It Couldn't Just Happen.)

 

The amount of grace in any of these areas will depend on the tutor.

[Eleni]

Ok...that is really my one caveat about using the program. We don't take the Bible literally for science matters (we are Eastern Orthodox)...and tend to go with the evolutionary viewpoint. I would be concerned that A) my kids would say something to another child and I would have a parent none too happy with me B) they might interject something during class that is against the focus of their science and C) that my kids would wind up very confused.

[angela in ohio]

Ok...that is really my one caveat about using the program. We don't take the Bible literally for science matters (we are Eastern Orthodox)...and tend to go with the evolutionary viewpoint. I would be concerned that A) my kids would say something to another child and I would have a parent none too happy with me B) they might interject something during class that is against the focus of their science and C) that my kids would wind up very confused.

 

It's going to depend a lot on your particular campus, I think. All of those could be concerns. I would talk to the Director and Tutors about it.

[Woodland_Mom]

Ok...that is really my one caveat about using the program. We don't take the Bible literally for science matters (we are Eastern Orthodox)...and tend to go with the evolutionary viewpoint. I would be concerned that A) my kids would say something to another child and I would have a parent none too happy with me B) they might interject something during class that is against the focus of their science and C) that my kids would wind up very confused.

 

The Challenge Program is meant for discussion! The classes are no larger than 12 students. They all learn together and come to know one another through out the year. It is a protected environment with a Christian Director/Tutor shaping/directing the discussion time. The kids enjoy having a chance to share their opinions and thoughts. So far, in my class, there have been a couple of VERY minor differences in opinion. It made for interesting discussion. Nothing was solved. We weren't trying to do that. There have even been times when I've said, "not everyone believes the same way you do, but it's important to know what YOU believe and why."

 

Two of the books used in Challenge A, for example, are meant to spark minds and lead kids to want discuss their viewpoints. CC makes their doctornal statement known to all participating families. It is a basic statement that most Christians are fine with (in my somewhat limited experience). When a touchy topic comes up, we tutors are directed to remind students that their parents are the ones who should provide them with more direction about xyz topic. (evolution, old earth/young earth, etc.)