TT Pre-Algebra vs. MUS Prealgebra

[Teresa in MO]

my 6th gr. dd is doing TT 7 this year. She is doing pretty good, not great, but good. She does it pretty much on her own. If she gets below 85% we go over the ones she gets wrong. I am not sure I like not being directly involved in it. She does most lessons on the computer, so there are alot of days I don't go over anything with her. I know this is the concept behind TT, but I'm not sure I like it. I was planning on using TT with her for the rest of her math. If she struggles with something in higher level math, I'm afraid it will be missed. Does anyone else feel this way?

 

So, in planning for next year, I am starting to consider MUS and probably combine it with LOF. I used MUS many years ago before the revisions and it was good, but maybe not challenging enough for certain students. For this dd, I think it would be okay.

 

My 7th gr. dd is doing Chalkdust Prealebra this year and is doing okay. I do not think this would work next year for the 6th grader. I think she would struggle alot with it.

 

So can someone that has maybe used or seen both compare TT Prealgebra with MUS Prealgebra? Not to throw another thing in, but I am also looking at CLE gr. 7.

[Mommy7]

I have some of the same questions. I have also felt that I am not sure that I like the lack of involvement. The very thing that drew me to the program (independent learning) is the very thing that may be drawing me away. My dc also feel that it does not have enough practice on concepts. I guess it is the spiral method that they are objecting to.

 

We have been combining MUS with TT this year. We found we needed MUS for the practice with the basic concepts. I really like MUS and being involved in it, but I would like for them to be challenged to see math in a different way also. So, I am considering doing MUS with Math Mammoth next year for everyone except my 13 yo. I like the thinking that MM encourages.

 

I have spent some time looking at MUS Pre-Algebra and TT Pre-Algebra.

With MUS Pre-Algebra, they are assuming the student has already mastered fractions, decimals, percents, etc. There doesn't appear to be a review of previous things. It looks more like a year of "real" pre-algebra concepts.

 

TT Pre-Algebra, on the other hand, spends half of the year reviewing the basics. It is my feeling that the student would need to be comfortable with fractions, decimals, percents, etc. before going into the "real" pre-algebra part of the book. Not that it appears difficult, but I just want my dd to have really mastered these things before introducing the abstract type of thinking. I guess only you can judge whether you feel your child is ready for that or not.

 

I have heard that with TT in the upper courses, to get all of Algebra 2, you have to complete their Pre-Calculus course because half of their Algebra 2 is actually in that course. It appears that what they name their upper level courses do not jive with standard texts. So, I have decided to not continue with TT for my dd who will be in 8th next year.

 

My dd (7th) did TT7 this year. She will be finishing in about a week. (We do math over the summers) So, she is getting ready to work through LOF Fractions, Decimals & Percents. At the same time, she will be working through Lial's Essential Mathematics to cement the basics. Right now, my plan is for her to do Lial's BCM next year, using the DVT's. If we run into problems, we will contact Jann in TX for help. If all goes well, we will continue with the Lial's series for Alg. 1 & 2.

 

FYI, I hear that TT's Geometry is a good course. It is supposed to be the bright light in the series. We may revisit TT for that one or do an online class with Jann in TX.

 

Hope all this is helpful and not confusing. I know it can be so difficult to decide the direction to take! :001_smile:

[Teresa in MO]

thanks, anyone else.

[Corraleno]

Just be aware that the format for TT Prealgebra is different from TT 4-7. With Prealgebra (and the other upper level courses), the student watches the CD-rom "lecture," then works the problem sets on paper (copying them from the textbook). The parent then needs to correct the work using the Answer Key. For parents who want to be more involved, that might be a good thing; for parents who like the total independence of TT4-7, this may be a disadvantage.

 

Also, I think TT7 and TT Prealgebra repeat a LOT of the same material. If your child needs that sort of repetition, that might be a good thing; if not, he/she may feel bored and unchallenged. My son is currently doing TT Prealgebra after completing Math Mammoth 5 (because MM6 wasn't out yet), and I'm disappointed in how little he's getting out of it. He's finding it quite tedious and repetitive. I may have him go back and do Math Mammoth 6 when it comes out this summer because I think it will be a much meatier program that TT Prealgebra.

 

Jackie

[Teresa in MO]

thanks, this helps alot.

[KathyBC]

my 6th gr. dd is doing TT 7 this year. She is doing pretty good, not great, but good. She does it pretty much on her own. If she gets below 85% we go over the ones she gets wrong. I am not sure I like not being directly involved in it. She does most lessons on the computer, so there are alot of days I don't go over anything with her. I know this is the concept behind TT, but I'm not sure I like it. I was planning on using TT with her for the rest of her math. If she struggles with something in higher level math, I'm afraid it will be missed. Does anyone else feel this way?

 

 

 

As Mommy7 mentioned, the TT format changes between elementary and upper level math. They watch the lecture and practices on one CD, complete the questions in the workbook, then watch required solutions on another CD. The parent needs to mark every lesson and test. The benefit is that you know what they know - it's unlikely that any struggles will get missed. The downsides for us are that TT is no longer saving me as much time and ds is less independent of me than he would like.

 

For elementary TT, here's how I reassured myself of what ds was learning in TT7 last year.

* I checked his grade sheet at the end of each lesson. We watched the solution for any that were incorrect to be sure he understood. If an answer took more than one try to be correct I asked why. If it was typo, no problem. For anything else, I went over it or we watched the solution. (He hated all of this, BTW. insert evil grin)

 

* I had him take the tests in the workbooks, rather than on the computer, for three reasons:

1. So I had physical evidence of learning.

2. So he would keep the habits of writing his work and of testing.

3. So I could be sure of what he knew.

 

This was a good fit for us.

[Corraleno]

I just got an email today from the folks at Kinetic Books confirming that they will be releasing a Prealgebra program this spring! I don't know if you've looked into the KB books, but they're completely digital and interactive ~ and much more "visual" than TT. With TT you just see the words and numbers being written on the screen, with KB the concepts are illustrated visually. They also have Algebra I & II. The programs are very inexpensive, ranging from $35 for a year of web access to $50 for the program on CD which is reusable for multiple kids. You can also get a printed textbook for about $20 more, and they have an optional online homework/grading/record-keeping package for homeschoolers that costs $50/yr. So you can get a reusable CD, plus a printed textbook, plus a year of online grading, assignment tracking, etc, for 1/3 less than TT. And it's way more interactive. I'm not thrilled with the way TT Prealgebra is going in our house, and I plan to order the KB Prealgebra as soon as it's available.

 

Their website is a bit hard to navigate (someone needs to update it, now that Alg II is available), but you can watch example videos and you can sign up for a free trial, which let's you download a chapter.

http://www.kineticbooks.com/index.html

 

They offer Physics as well: Conceptual, AP Physics B, and AP Physics C, plus virtual labs.

 

Jackie

[bethben]

I've looked at this program for the future and was wondering how it compares to a "regular" pre-algebra/algebra program (I'm thinking chalk dust or video text). How do they compare in preparing a student for college level calculus?

Beth

[Jen+4dc]

I just got an email today from the folks at Kinetic Books confirming that they will be releasing a Prealgebra program this spring! I don't know if you've looked into the KB books, but they're completely digital and interactive ~ and much more "visual" than TT. With TT you just see the words and numbers being written on the screen, with KB the concepts are illustrated visually. They also have Algebra I & II. The programs are very inexpensive, ranging from $35 for a year of web access to $50 for the program on CD which is reusable for multiple kids. You can also get a printed textbook for about $20 more, and they have an optional online homework/grading/record-keeping package for homeschoolers that costs $50/yr. So you can get a reusable CD, plus a printed textbook, plus a year of online grading, assignment tracking, etc, for 1/3 less than TT. And it's way more interactive. I'm not thrilled with the way TT Prealgebra is going in our house, and I plan to order the KB Prealgebra as soon as it's available.

 

Their website is a bit hard to navigate (someone needs to update it, now that Alg II is available), but you can watch example videos and you can sign up for a free trial, which let's you download a chapter.

http://www.kineticbooks.com/index.html

 

They offer Physics as well: Conceptual, AP Physics B, and AP Physics C, plus virtual labs.

 

Jackie

 

Not to hijack the thread, bu I've never heard of Kinetic Books. How does this compare to college-prep programs? I have the same problem as the OP (dd12 just finished TT7 and did well, not great, but well, etc. etc.). I've heard that TT is not great from Pre-Algebra on on a college prep track but I've heard the same thing about MUS (which I *love* for my youngest).

[Corraleno]

Kinetic Books texts have been adopted by many states for use in public schools, and two of their Physics courses are approved by the College Board for AP Physics B (Principles of Physics) and AP Physics C (Physics for Scientists and Engineers). Their 3rd physics course, Conceptual Physics, has been picked up for distribution by McDougal Littell/Houghton Mifflin, who are planning to produce a printed textbook and other materials to go with it.

 

Looking at the scope & sequence for Algebra I on the KB website, it looks quite rigorous to me ~ comparable to Larson's Beginning Algebra, which is what Chalkdust uses. It is much more rigorous than TT. It basically covers all the topics of a typical Alg I text (ending with quadratic equations), but with the addition of lots of interactive functions and activities. One feature that looks really great to me is that if a student is having trouble with a particular problem, they can click a button to take them directly to the section that teaches that concept. And the activities look really cool!

 

There's an extensive demo at the link below (click on the soccer field graphic) which explains the program very well:

http://www.kineticbooks.com/algebra/demo.html

 

Jackie

 

ETA: KB Prealgebra should be available in March or April.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Corraleno

[Jen+4dc]

Kinetic Books texts have been adopted by many states for use in public schools, and two of their Physics courses are approved by the College Board for AP Physics B (Principles of Physics) and AP Physics C (Physics for Scientists and Engineers). Their 3rd physics course, Conceptual Physics, has been picked up for distribution by McDougal Littell/Houghton Mifflin, who are planning to produce a printed textbook and other materials to go with it.

 

Looking at the scope & sequence for Algebra I on the KB website, it looks quite rigorous to me ~ comparable to Larson's Beginning Algebra, which is what Chalkdust uses. It is much more rigorous than TT. It basically covers all the topics of a typical Alg I text (ending with quadratic equations), but with the addition of lots of interactive functions and activities. One feature that looks really great to me is that if a student is having trouble with a particular problem, they can click a button to take them directly to the section that teaches that concept. And the activities look really cool!

 

There's an extensive demo at the link below (click on the soccer field graphic) which explains the program very well:

http://www.kineticbooks.com/algebra/demo.html

 

Jackie

 

ETA: KB Prealgebra should be available in March or April.

 

 

Thanks Jackie!!:001_smile: