Help with planning for soon to be 14 yos

[OurClub190]

Hi Folks,

 

Our second son, 13, is a serious dyslexic and quite frankly, learning to read was far more important to me than anything else so we let a lot fall by the wayside. Well, now he's going on 14 (been reading for about two years and still working on overcoming other aspects of this LD) and technically in 8th grade and we want to help him get ready for high school. He's not ready for rhetoric level work, he's just getting into puberty and starting to be ready for logic level things, so we're way behind to say the least. I've reread my WTM and other things trying to figure out what we should do in this next semester to continue to help him. I doubt we'll call his next term, his 9th grade year, a high school year, but we really don't want to "leave him back" -- he does want to graduate with his peers. BTW, he doesn't believe he's smart either even though he's made remarkable progress, going from not being able to read more than three letter words at 12 to being able to read, really read, his Bible (NIV) on his own in under two years! We're also still working on the math issue; he's up to L16 of Intermediate MUS Classic, which is about the equivalent of Delta or Epsilon, fractions and division. There's no way he's ready for algebra yet. We tried ToG and it didn't really work out for him. He couldn't handle the questions in the Dialectic level at all, and some of the more subtle things in the literature totally went over his head. We're also still working on writing skills and the act of handwriting. We haven't done science in over a year either. I feel so overwhelmed right now, trying to figure out what to do, what skills to focus in on over the next few months, and what we can reasonably expect to be able to plan for his future school years. Is there a crash course we could do? Something that could help him get up to speed, or at least closer to where he should be, but something that won't kill him!

 

Thanks for any advice and encouragement you may have.

[EKS]

Figure out what it will take for him to graduate and then work backwards. I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool high school. So, if you decide that he will need to get through calculus in math in order to graduate, then he needs to be in algebra now, but if you decide that he needs algebra I and geometry to graduate (as was the requirement when I was in high school), then he will need to be in algebra by 11th grade and you'll need to plan a path to get there by then.

 

If you haven't already, I'd make sure he learns to type well as this can really help things in the writing department.

 

And if you're not already, you can take some of the pressure off from the content areas by reading his assignments aloud to him and allowing him to do much of the work orally. Dyslexics have to expend more energy than others to read, so you'll want to channel that energy into specific areas (pick a few things that he'll need to read himself).

 

Also, do you know if there is more going on than dyslexia. My 13yo son has dyslexia and ADHD and medication has really helped him since we started it a year ago.

[gardening momma]

Figure out what it will take for him to graduate and then work backwards. I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool high school. So, if you decide that he will need to get through calculus in math in order to graduate, then he needs to be in algebra now, but if you decide that he needs algebra I and geometry to graduate (as was the requirement when I was in high school), then he will need to be in algebra by 11th grade and you'll need to plan a path to get there by then.

I wonder if it depends on the state, or even the specific school--the school I went to in Michigan only required 2 years of math in high school to graduate. Not any specific math, just 2 years of it. The college I wanted to go to required me to have taken chemistry & geometry as an entrance requirement. I had taken chemistry in high school but not geometry, so I took geometry through adult education in the summer after I graduated high school.

[OurClub190]

Yes, I'm doing all that you both recommend, but ... here's the thing, what do I do about his abilities when they don't mesh with the laundry list? Say I decide he "needs" calculus to graduate and that means he needs to be in algebra now but he is still learning fractions and division. What then?? Also, we expended tons of effort in getting him to learn to read, many hours, multitudes of tears, much money, and major prayer, but in order to focus on that we had to let other things go. That means that he's WAY behind where he should be if I even try to follow the WTM progression. The way I look at it, he needs to learn the outlining skill, needs a broad sweep through history, must learn to identify fallacies when he meets them, and has to learn how to construct a valid coherent argument to defend his position on whatever subject. He should learn the basics of science, scientific method, how the world works, etc. He should also know how to type without doing any hunting or pecking (like I do). He needs to learn to discern the nuances of our worldview, more importantly, he needs to learn what his worldview is and what that means when the rubber meets the road. So, how do I do all of that, in the time we have before high school officially starts? I'm OK with and encouraged by the thought of having HS begin in 10th grade rather than 9th for him but I wonder if even 18 months is enough to do all that needs to be done to get him ready for the rigors of the rhetoric level. Just thinking about it all puts me in such a twist!!

[EKS]

I've heard that people use Lial's Basic College Math to get kids up to speed in arithmetic before tackling algebra. This may be something to take a look at for math.

 

For literature, you could look at the more standard courses--for example K12 offers a comprehensive literature course that might be helpful. It is called Literature B and is marketed for 7th graders, but it is actually an 8th grade course. Their Literary Analysis and Composition (what they call the 8th grade course but is really a basic 9th grade course) would be something you could do for 9th grade. If you did this independently, you could tailor it to fit your son's needs. For example, I have my son read the literature on his own, but I read the K12 lesson to him and we do all the questions orally. I consider it a combination lecture/discussion. The literature selections are high quality but generally quite short, and so they don't overwhelm my son.

 

For science, have you tried an general science course, one marketed for 7/8th grade? I know they're out there, but I don't have any suggestions.

 

For history, a fabulous series for middle schoolers is the K12 Human Odyssey series (just the books without the online component). There are three books and I think if you were to read a chapter per day aloud you could get through the entire series in a year. The last book is shorter and intended to be done in a semester in 9th grade, so that is something you could save for that year.

 

I hope something in here helps.

[SonshineLearner]

I think that cds while he's doing other things... really helps. SOTW is great... over and over and over;-) Then there are other people to listen to... If you wanna do Famous Men of.....Series... They are available to download too. Listening more than once is key for us to remember the material.

I know that Classical Conversations is loved or hated... but for this.. I think it would work well. You just listen to the 3 cycles and you'd be surprised at how much you learn! Even my public school step and the one doing college listen to them....

Carrie:-)

[Peela]

Yes, I'm doing all that you both recommend, but ... here's the thing, what do I do about his abilities when they don't mesh with the laundry list? Say I decide he "needs" calculus to graduate and that means he needs to be in algebra now but he is still learning fractions and division. What then?? Also, we expended tons of effort in getting him to learn to read, many hours, multitudes of tears, much money, and major prayer, but in order to focus on that we had to let other things go. That means that he's WAY behind where he should be if I even try to follow the WTM progression. The way I look at it, he needs to learn the outlining skill, needs a broad sweep through history, must learn to identify fallacies when he meets them, and has to learn how to construct a valid coherent argument to defend his position on whatever subject. He should learn the basics of science, scientific method, how the world works, etc. He should also know how to type without doing any hunting or pecking (like I do). He needs to learn to discern the nuances of our worldview, more importantly, he needs to learn what his worldview is and what that means when the rubber meets the road. So, how do I do all of that, in the time we have before high school officially starts? I'm OK with and encouraged by the thought of having HS begin in 10th grade rather than 9th for him but I wonder if even 18 months is enough to do all that needs to be done to get him ready for the rigors of the rhetoric level. Just thinking about it all puts me in such a twist!!

 

I have a 14yo dyslexic boy.

What if all your son got to by the end of highschool was a really solid Logic Stage level? I hear that SWB says in her latest edition of TWTM that some kids with LDs may only get that- but that is still pretty good and not to be sneezed at. I was thrilled to hear that because I kept thinking "how will my son ever get to the rhetoric stage? "

I don't agree you should work backwards from where you want him to be in a few years. My experience is...no matter where I want my son to be, he can only be where he is, and he can only move a tiny babystep from where he is now, as his next step. Where he ends up is anyone's guess...of course I have my general goals for him, but my biggest mistake with him has always been to try and jump him past where his ability is, because I want to "catch him up". It always backfires, and his self esteem plummets. Better to get him doing what he can do, well, and then challenge him a little more until he succeeds at the next level. My goal with him is a solid logic stage, and then we will see if we have time to go further before he finishes with me.

We have started at the beginning in Latin more times than I can care to name. However, he is actually getting a very solid foundation in the grammar and it is helping him to remember English grammar. So, we plod on, as slowly as it takes. If my goal was to have him finish a certain course, I would be in despair. My goal is to move forward.

I still read aloud every day to him- we cover a lot of history and literature that way, as well as books like The Fallacy Detective, this year a philosophy book etc.A lot can be covered informally, too. Worldview can be done in an informal way with lots of discussions- my son is very verbal and discussions work well with him.

For a long, long time, logic puzzles were just too frustrating for him. This year (age 13) he could finally do them without melt downs.

I think you have to stay with where your son is at, and move forward, never taking your eyes off him, and having a general idea of goals. I have had to let go of a lot of classical ideals with my son, and you might not want to do that with yours, but still, it's your son that is important, not the ideals.

My son never officially learned to type- I tried a program for a few days- but I just made him do writing assignments on the computer because it makes editing soooo much easier. He continued to do copywork and dictation by hand, and can now handwrite quite well too (writing has been his most difficult task, not reading). However, the bulk of his writing was on the computer for a long time, and it made writing assignments easier. He just got better at typing as he went. None of us hunt and peck but none of us have done proper programs.

I think its important with kids like this, that they succeed. I have had to cut back things for my son over and over, just so we could move forward in the basics. We read widely, and also watch documentaries.

Ive just been talking to someone else with a 14yo dyslexic son...and she reminded me, while we chatted, that dyslexia is not really a diability as such---its just a different wqay of processing things, and it doesnt match well with the normal system of learning. But dyslexic kids usually have the gift of thinking outside of the box, and often surprising us with their ingenious thinking...so I think its also important to honour and find the gifts and strengths rather than always comparing them to where there peers are at in academic work, or where we think they shoudl be. They are perfectly normal- for who they are. Many famous people are dyslexic.

Well, theres my rave for the day :)

[OurClub190]

Oh, Peela, thanks so much for understanding what I'm talking about here and especially for letting me know that it's OK for him to get a solid Logic stage by the end of high school. That's essentially why we are having to sell away the lovely and wonderful ToG curriculum ... because he just can't do it, no way, no how, it's like forcing a square peg into a round hole and try as I might, even with reading aloud to him and having the audio versions, he just doesn't get it. We backed into UG then had to back up again into the LG too, and I just can't stand to see such a wonderfully written curriculum go to waste because it's just the wrong fit for us.

 

EKS, thanks so much for the recommendation about trying Lial's Basic College math. That may very well work better than me trying to reinvent the wheel! I pulled out Jacob's Human Endeavor and Ray's Practical Arithmetic the other day and have been trying to work out a way to give him the arithmetic he still needs, at a pace he can handle, but in a more linear fashion than most texts take.

 

This whole dyslexia issue is a true struggle, especially because he sees the world so differently than I do, and because of the beating his self-esteem has taken in going through all these struggles. He sees his older brother not struggle (that one's sort of stepford-student) and takes his own struggles as meaning that he's just not smart, when in reality, with just brain power, I think he's much smarter than the older one (not that I'd ever tell them that!). This boy, when he was between 7 and 10, was following along with the Apologia sciences when my oldest did them, not reading, not writing anything, but he got it! (And often, the older one didn't!) No matter how often I tell him that he is special and that he is a very intelligent young man, he doesn't believe me. I think part of that may be that he wants to embrace the 'goofy' pubescence of the moment, but I know some of it is real to him.

 

When I reread my second posting about wanting a crash course, I saw that I really do have a crash course already in mind. It's good to know that I CAN focus on him and what he needs rather than worry over the laundry list of subjects that the state demands of its graduates. I'm so glad that you all have taken the time to remind me that it is me who decides WHAT the courses consist of and that it is the student who is the barometer of what he can handle. Thanks again.

 

C

[Michelle T]

I have a 13.5 year old DS with raging ADHD and fairly severe LD's. While he does read more-or-less on age level, he doesn't have great comprehension, and he is quite behind in every other area. He has dyscalulia, and believe me, he doesn't understand fractions either, or much beyond the absolute basics of the four arithmetic operations.

 

The reality is, my DS is extremely unlikely to achieve the level of academics spelled out in WTM. I doubt he will really get beyond an 8th grade level. And that's okay. If that is the highest he can achieve, then his achieving it is a big deal, KWIM? Not all kids are academic whizzes. Not all kids or adults are capable of abstract, complex understanding. There are tons of people out there who are basic memorize and simple thought/understanding type people. And that's okay. They still lead happy, productive lives, which is my main goal for my DS.

 

I consider it extremely unlikely my DS will go to college, maybe a 2-year, but not a university. If he does, that is great, but he will require major accommodations to be able to handle any college class. My husband also has raging ADHD and LD's, and was absolutely unable to do any college. He had a tough enough time just graduating high school, and is definitely NOT a rhetoric thought level guy. But he still has a good job and supports the family.

 

It is very hard. I'm not saying to have no or low expectations for your DS. But you do have to have realistic expectations. And for a child with fairly severe learning issues, very often they are not going to get through a lot of subjects other kids can handle. And that's okay.

Michelle T

[Nan in Mass]

Have you seen the Florida PASS materials? If he did the PASS courses for a few of his subjects, he could be aquiring high school credits while he worked on skills in the others. FWIW, I think that rhetoric level skills sometimes don't develop until college, anyway. I am good at academic skills (except memorizing), was in the top classes and was a national merit scholar semifinalists (I scored very high on the PSATs), but I still completely missed the point of some age-appropriate literature like To Kill a Mockingbird. Looking back, I can see that except for math, my skills were definately only logic level when I left high school. Fortunately, I went into software engineering and didn't need to develop rhetoric level English skills until I started homeschooling high school LOL. My sister, who is even better at academics than I am, was the same way in high school. She learned the rhetoric skills in college, when she needed them. Some of us, even without LDs, are late bloomers.

-Nan