Mary in NJ Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I have read through all the posts I could find about the Dolciani books. I have a few questions about which level these books are: Modern School Mathematics: Structure and Method Course 1 Modern School Mathematics: Structure and Method Course 2 I have found the solutions manual for the 1972 edition, so I decided to go with this. What about the pre-algebra? I have found several of these, but are they what used to be the Math 7 and 8 from the early 70's? What is considered Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, etc?? Is there a sequence listed for these books? I have spent so much time searching around for these answers, but I couldn't find them. I know someone on the board will have the answers!! Thanks so much for all your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 The high school sequence is: Modern Algebra: Structure and Method, Book 1 Modern Geometry: Structure and Method Modern Algebra with Trigonometry: Structure and Method, Book 2 Modern Introductory Analysis I believe that the Modern School Mathematics books you mentioned are the equivalent of Math 7 & Math 8, but am not positive. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I believe that the Modern School Mathematics books you mentioned are the equivalent of Math 7 & Math 8, but am not positive. HTH :iagree: That is what I determined after some discussion with another poster. We are using a 1972 Course 2 as our pre-algebra. Ds had previously completed Singapore through 5a, LOF fractions and part of LOF decimals (which we are finishing this month). He has been able to move into course two without an issue, I love the way it teaches about negative numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in NJ Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) The high school sequence is: Modern Algebra: Structure and Method, Book 1 Modern Geometry: Structure and Method Modern Algebra with Trigonometry: Structure and Method, Book 2 Modern Introductory Analysis I believe that the Modern School Mathematics books you mentioned are the equivalent of Math 7 & Math 8, but am not positive. HTH Thanks so much! I should have checked here before ordering the other books!! ughhh. Okay, I'm back to the used book sites. Edited December 7, 2009 by Mary in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in NJ Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 :iagree: That is what I determined after some discussion with another poster. We are using a 1972 Course 2 as our pre-algebra. Ds had previously completed Singapore through 5a, LOF fractions and part of LOF decimals (which we are finishing this month). He has been able to move into course two without an issue, I love the way it teaches about negative numbers. This is good to hear. I purchased the Course 1, thinking that it was Algebra 1. Sounds like I can use these books with my boys and try looking for the Algebra books for my daughter. This is so tricky!!! On a side note, I found a Dolciani book from 1965 that was $2,833.00 !!:eek: Say "hello" to everyone for me!:seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is good to hear. I purchased the Course 1, thinking that it was Algebra 1. Sounds like I can use these books with my boys and try looking for the Algebra books for my daughter. This is so tricky!!! On a side note, I found a Dolciani book from 1965 that was $2,833.00 !!:eek: Say "hello" to everyone for me!:seeya: I will! :grouphug: If you check amazon I was able to find a 1960 algebra solution manual for very cheap. I've also had luck on paperbackswap. The 1960s algebra does not have an ISBN, but the 1975 Algebra ISBN is 0395145074 for the student, 0395143705 for the teacher. I have not located a teacher's edition yet. The student book has odd numbered answers in the back. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 As someone who did the same as you, reading all the posts and buying based on popularity here, I'd like to toss out the suggestion to go slowly and make sure you like stuff before buying a lot or spending a lot of money. These antique Dolciani's might have some strengths, but they also have drawbacks in format, lack of application, etc. I got a 1967 dolciani alg. 1 tm recently, and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable teaching from it. It's laid out oddly and not easy to look at like a modern text. It's more plain than a R&S book, if you can imagine. I have a mid-80's dolciani pre-algebra (accelerated course) I'm planning to start with dd in January, and it looks fine. I was taught with dolciani myself (not in the 60's, snort) and I'm not nearly as infatuated with the experience as some people here are. I think it was extremely weak on application, and application is the point, the fun. I intend to go to Foerster for alg. 1, unless dd turns out so in love with dolciani that we just have to continue. And even then I don't know whether I'd use this old edition. I'd DEFINITELY add application stuff to it. (Math Counts, Math Olympiad, AoPS, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 On a side note, I found a Dolciani book from 1965 that was $2,833.00 !!:eek: Check abe books, too. I found all four Dolciani books on there recently - the most expensive was $30, but the rest were around $9-11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in NJ Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 Thanks for everyone's help! I have managed to piece together one year with student text, teacher's edition and solution key. Unfortunately, it is not the year we need right now. This is going to take a LOT of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) As someone who did the same as you, reading all the posts and buying based on popularity here, I'd like to toss out the suggestion to go slowly and make sure you like stuff before buying a lot or spending a lot of money. These antique Dolciani's might have some strengths, but they also have drawbacks in format, lack of application, etc. I got a 1967 dolciani alg. 1 tm recently, and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable teaching from it. It's laid out oddly and not easy to look at like a modern text. It's more plain than a R&S book, if you can imagine. I have a mid-80's dolciani pre-algebra (accelerated course) I'm planning to start with dd in January, and it looks fine. I was taught with dolciani myself (not in the 60's, snort) and I'm not nearly as infatuated with the experience as some people here are. I think it was extremely weak on application, and application is the point, the fun. I intend to go to Foerster for alg. 1, unless dd turns out so in love with dolciani that we just have to continue. And even then I don't know whether I'd use this old edition. I'd DEFINITELY add application stuff to it. (Math Counts, Math Olympiad, AoPS, etc.) Some kids intuitively know how to apply Algebra (I'm thinking of my eldest here), but I also think that with any Algebra program it's wise to supplement with something else. How else can you be truly sure your dc really understands it? I think a great test is to be able to look at a different one and be able to easily answer the questions in the same category. Back when the older Dolciani was used, good math teachers would take the Algebra in those New Math books and make it live by showing the application themselves, but not every math teacher had the ability to do that, even if they could do the math in their sleep. We're huge fans of the older (I don't dare say Antique, since I'm older than all of those books ;)) Dolciani texts. Huge fans. However, I would never have any of my dc do one Algebra text and consider them done, nor do I expect everyone to like them the way we do (but wouldn't life be easier if we all liked the same program :)?) Life of Fred has a story I personally don't enjoy the way my dc do, but I LOVE the way the applications of math are made so clear, the fact that he's teaching via a story, which is a very old form of teaching, and that he's able to show different ways to explain things, remember things and also simpler ways to explain things that have traditionally been taught in dry ways in almost every single Algebra textbook out there. The older Dolciani texts are usually very inexpensive, and the new LoF are kept to a very reasonable price (and you get free shipping from the company that prints them, so there's no advantage to ordering them through a vendor). We've used at least 5 Algebra texts, all "big" names: Jacob's, TT, Gelfand's, Lial's, Doliciani. Dd is actually using the LoF Geometry & supplementing that with some older, brilliant Geometry books, but we own the Algebra & Trig books and she's already read those just for fun (she'll read the ones she needs for math later, and my middle dd is going to use them.) In the end, you need to find what will work well for your dc, and there isn't one book out there that is going to work equally well for every student. That isn't realistic since not only do dc learn in different ways and while everyone shines somewhere, not everyone is going to shine in math. Disclaimer: My eldest learns math by reading, so I don't have to teach it to her, although there have been times when I've needed to help her understand things. So far I've never had to prepare an Algebra lesson. But if I had to, it would be with Dolciani, Gelfand &/or LoF. Dd liked Lial's, but it wasn't my cup of tea. Edited December 5, 2009 by Karin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Back when the older Dolciani was used, good math teachers would take the Algebra in those New Math books and make it live by showing the application themselves Life of Fred has a story I personally don't enjoy the way my dc do, but I LOVE the way the applications of math are made so clear, the fact that he's teaching via a story, which is a very old form of teaching, and that he's able to show different ways to explain things, remember things and also simpler ways to explain things that have traditionally been taught in dry ways in almost every single Algebra textbook out there. The older Dolciani texts are usually very inexpensive, and the new LoF are kept to a very reasonable price (and you get free shipping from the company that prints them, so there's no advantage to ordering them through a vendor). This is extremely helpful info. for me, Karin, thanks! About the bolded parts - would you say, then, that LoF helps the Dolciani by showing applications in different ways? (I just received the first of the 1960s Dolciani books that I recently ordered online - the Intro. Analysis one - at my first flip through it last night I breathed a sigh of relief as I examined how it is written - I don't know how to explain it, but it is written in a way that makes me think I will be able to understand high school math finally, and not just rotely do the problems like I did in high school - I also liked that it has biographies of mathematicians in each chapter! And reading lists at the end of each chapter - how fun!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 This is extremely helpful info. for me, Karin, thanks! About the bolded parts - would you say, then, that LoF helps the Dolciani by showing applications in different ways? (I just received the first of the 1960s Dolciani books that I recently ordered online - the Intro. Analysis one - at my first flip through it last night I breathed a sigh of relief as I examined how it is written - I don't know how to explain it, but it is written in a way that makes me think I will be able to understand high school math finally, and not just rotely do the problems like I did in high school - I also liked that it has biographies of mathematicians in each chapter! And reading lists at the end of each chapter - how fun!) My experimental child for doing Algebra with LoF & Dolciani is going to start Algebra in January, so this is all theory at this point based on my 14 yo doing LoF Geometry with older books, but yes, I do. However, my younger dd is young enough that she has time to do Algebra 1 twice, which is my prefered choice after experience of having exactly one dd do Algebra :) so we can take our time. But since at least one of my math gurus here agrees, I feel on solid ground with that opinion. I'm planning to have this dd do LoF Begining Algebra before doing Dolciani at this point. The challenge in doing 2 Algebra programs at once lies in the fact that they're often done in different orders. I haven't checked the tables of contents of LoF Beginning Algebra with Dolciani yet, but we have both 1965 & 1976 Dolciani, and they're not in the exact same order, so I may choose which My dd's love the story with LoF, although some dc apparently don't like the verbosity. I've read them all, though, and am impressed with the presentation of math. In fact, my 14 yo has even been caught reading LoF books she's not doing yet when she was supposed to be doing other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 We are using S&M, book 1, this year for Algebra I (although a newer version than yours). Our math tutor says that the level B and C problems are really Algebra II or even higher. One of the students is going to do high school level work through American School next year and they tell me that the same book is used for both Alg I and II (so I'm assuming they perhaps do the level B and C problems for the second year, too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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