Classical Lite?

[Myrrh]

Really hitting a wall with my seven year-old and narrations. We're using TWTM and it seems like I'm spending way too much time walking her through the comprehension questions (which I make up), then the aloud narration, and finally the dreaded putting it on paper. We're doing this for history, science, and literature (correlating with history), so it's a good chunk of time as it is, and she's really resisting the whole format, despite how bright she is--I think it's a combination of her perfectionism (worried about not getting it right) and her age/temperament which tends toward the literal, details, facts (the sensing vs. intuiting preference on the Myers-Briggs). So we either end up writing way too much (because her memory is like that) which wears us both out or I get frustrated spoon feeding her the main ideas.

 

So I'm wondering if there's a better way to go about this for her temperament and my sanity, as well as time--my poor early kindergartener is basically on her own doing art all morning, which she's happy about, but I want to be with her more, and she's not interested in what we're doing. Not to mention juggling housework with prep and planning for school times (her math workbook has gone uncorrected for the last few weeks and I haven't even had time to teach her the new concepts she's learning purely by example). Our mornings are packed and then at lunch my almost three year-old comes home from preschool and it's all over (having him there three mornings is akin to giving myself training wheels for homeschooling!).

 

So I'm curious what alternatives to the TWTM might be a better fit for us, preferably other forms of classical but I'm trying to be open to anything that has more of a literature feel than a textbook one (and yet my daughter can't get enough of The Magic Schoolbus). What made me think we should stick with classical was how much she loved SOTW I and the mythology, but that was last semester when I had just pulled her out of public school (at her urging) and I skipped the whole narrating/writing part, so we basically just read and did the questions from SOTW AB.

 

All of my children are advanced (taught themselves to read very young) and enthusiastic learners (on their own terms of course!). My oldest (the 2nd grader) loves science and animals, is highly articulate and creative (in speech and writing), a very fast reader, but even when she finishes a book on her own, she wants me to read it to her. She's very relational and visual--loves colorful pictures and prefers illustrated chapter books.

 

Thanks so much for your input! I'll be gone all morning but am looking forward to reading your responses in the afternoon. Meanwhile, I've taken Cathy Duffy's 100 Top Curriculum Picks down from the shelf (for the umpteenth time) as I go back to the drawing board for what I'm sure will not be the last time...:tongue_smilie:

[Bird Girl]

That sounds like my experience last year; my DD is seven now, and last year was our first at home. Basically, I found that I needed to scale my writing expectations WAY back--usually, just a picture and 2-3 sentences for each chapter/idea/notebook page are what we do. It's so obvious to me that she's learning a lot, and she loves to make extra art or her own little projects on the topics we're covering. Narration should be mostly oral, I found, with just enough writing that you can review the main idea.

[Amber in AUS]

You could change up the way you are doing your narrations. You could just have her narrate the main idea from the first paragraph of whatever you are reading, you write that down then continue reading. At the end you pick out a couple of main points from the rest for her copywork. You would gradually work up to 2 paragraphs then an entire chapter and by her seeing you pick out the mainpoints it will give her an example of what you really want, shouldn't be like pulling teeth and will still be lit based.

 

I always use a mainpoint my DD has missed in her narration for her copywork because it helps cement that missing piece in her mind. Often she will say 'oh yeah, i forgot that'.

 

Small babysteps, she might just be feeling a little overwhelmed that the bar has been raised so much so soon.

[Myrrh]

Thanks for the helpful feedback so far. I may start with those suggestions before I do something drastic, but I'm still wondering if this might be meant to be a catalyst for a bigger change, so keep the ideas coming--thanks :) Off to Bible study now...

[debbielong]

...or whatever she enjoys the most.

 

Huh. I just looked back at your post. Is she narrating for ALL her subjects? Here is what SWB says on p. 59 of the newest edition of WTM:

 

"Narration removes the need for 'comprehension exercises'." And, "Not all reading should be narrated back to the teacher."

 

Maybe you are doing too much narration?

[pageta]

You could do narration randomly instead of on ever piece you read. That way she has to be prepared but you don't have to take time to do the whole routine every time. You could break it up - have her draw one time, do just verbal narration another, and only part of the time write down what she says. Obviously she has gotten the point - when it comes time for her to write herself, she'll probably have the same problem. Or maybe even try to get her to start paring things down a little and just summarize the main points rather than every. single. detail.

 

Just ideas...

[LibraryLover]

Ack! Slow down.

 

...or whatever she enjoys the most.

 

Huh. I just looked back at your post. Is she narrating for ALL her subjects? Here is what SWB says on p. 59 of the newest edition of WTM:

 

"Narration removes the need for 'comprehension exercises'." And, "Not all reading should be narrated back to the teacher."

 

Maybe you are doing too much narration?

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

The Latin Centered Curriculum might be another option.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

...or whatever she enjoys the most.

 

Huh. I just looked back at your post. Is she narrating for ALL her subjects? Here is what SWB says on p. 59 of the newest edition of WTM:

 

"Narration removes the need for 'comprehension exercises'." And, "Not all reading should be narrated back to the teacher."

 

Maybe you are doing too much narration?

 

 

:iagree: that it does sound like an awful lot.

[Donna A.]

Have you ever looked at My Father's World? One could call it "classical lite", as it's actually a blend of some components of classical, Charlotte Mason, and unit studies with a biblical foundation. It's just structured enough to give me a base to work from, and flexible enough to tweak to each individual child as needed. In addition to the books you purchase as part of the package, there's an extensive booklist in the back of the TMs from which you can pick and choose as time and interest allow. This booklist includes a wide variety of genres and age/reading levels, and every title (book and video) has been previewed, with author's notes next to it, that helps me decide which ones to obtain from the library (or purchase, if I so choose). Titles are broken up by week # and topic, so it's easy to find what you need on this list.

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/

[prairiegirl]

When my dd was 6, she rebelled against narrations as well. It became apparent to me that, in doing the homeschool thing with my first, I was becoming I bit too zealous in what I was expecting from her. So we pulled back a bit. I had her do narrations on only one reading a week for awhile, then I beefed it up to 2 after awhile. We worked our way up to one narration a day but it tooked a long time to get there--like a year or two. :001_smile:

[TKDmom]

Oh, I could have written that post last winter! I pulled dd out of ps halfway through 2nd grade. I immediately jumped into SOTW, WWE, FLL--you know, everything WTM recommended. Dd hated narration. She still does hate it if I let her know she's narrating ;)

 

I've switched over to Sonlight. I love it, but you don't necessarily need SL's guide to do things the way they do. Their narration is more relaxed: read a chapter to your kids, sit back and ask "what did we learn about?" or "tell me 5 things you learned", or "what was your favorite part of that chapter", or "tell me what the town looked like." You get the idea. It's so much better (for us) to relax and discuss the book.

 

Before, I got so stressed about getting to her to give me the "right" answer. Then she got stressed and stopped cooperating and hated school. Not such a good way to develop a love of learning. :D Relax. Enjoy learning with your kids. And make narration more of an informal and natural to find out if they were listening and understanding what you read.

[LND1218]

I agree to many narrations. Cut that way back. If that isn't enough of a help. Also look at a different approach - here are some very different styles of classical education - Veritas Press, Classical Conversations, or LCC (which was already mentioned.)

 

These are lighter just different.

[Myrrh]

Thank you all for helping me reclaim perspective. I guess it's pretty obvious that we are dealing with generational perfectionism :blush: I think the fact that I've been "winging it" so much lately (due to being overwhelmed and backlogged) has driven me to trying to "maximize" our time when really it's diminishing it. I always think that if I can get more organized and better prepared, it will go smoothly, but alas, I can never seem to get there! :rolleyes:

 

My husband was the teacher today and he came up with a technique for narration that seemed to help--giving her key words for her to make into sentences. I was surprised that worked since her least favorite part of Spelling Workout is at the end of each lesson where she has to write something with the spelling words, but that may be because they aren't easily related to the topics they give (see my blog post about the world's biggest pizza).

 

The other reason, though, that he had an easier time with her (besides having more patience since he only does it once a week) was because the reading I had them do was not school-related. They read chapter one of Paddington Bear, which naturally she liked and could retell more easily than say SOTW or Aladdin from Arabian Nights (not the Disney version obviously!).

 

For now, I will try to :chillpill: but I'm also going to look into MFW, TOG, and the others mentioned in this thread. I know I need to ease up instead of always feeling like we're not doing enough. Sometimes I'm even tempted to just take an unplanned week off to regroup and try to get more caught up, but then I worry that I'll be struggling to fill her time since her natural tendency will be to want me to let her watch DVDs or go on the internet (which I regulate now to once a day during dinner prep and more time on weekends). And the best laid plans of organizing our office / school room always seem to take a backseat to the needs of three young children and household chores...vicious cycle...but knowing you can relate helps :001_smile:

[prairiegirl]

I just had another thought after reading your latest post. Maybe have her narrate fiction for awhile as she gets used to it, then ease her into narrating history and science. Fiction is always easier to narrate than non-fiction, at least it is imo. :D

[Crimson Wife]

All my oldest's narrations are oral except when we do WWE. I don't notebook either.

[Heather in WI]

Really hitting a wall with my seven year-old and narrations. We're using TWTM and it seems like I'm spending way too much time walking her through the comprehension questions (which I make up), then the aloud narration, and finally the dreaded putting it on paper. We're doing this for history, science, and literature (correlating with history)

 

I would absolutely cut back to no more than one narration a day. (So, for example, history narration on Mon & Wed, science narration on Tues & Thurs, literature narration on Fri.) At this age I believe you are supposed to be writing down her narrations as she watches not her -- this should eliminate a lot of her frustration. Also, I'm not sure how much you are requiring, but narration should be no more than 3 sentences at that age. Ditto PP who said that narration removes the need for comprehension questions. Skip that part! :-)

 

Also, it might help to read SWB's Tips for Narration

 

It is hard at first, but it is so worth it! And, with consistency it gets sooooo much easier! I remember the time my oldest had his first 'excellent' narration all by himself -- he was *so* proud of himself. And, I was proud of him! It was a great homeschooling moment where he knew he worked hard to get there, and he finally did it.

[Myrrh]

Just wanted to give an update. When we read SOTW today, I stopped every few paragraphs and had her narrate what we had read, so by the time we got to the end of the section (it was a few pages long), she really knew her stuff and was actually eager to write! I asked her to come up with three sentences - one for the beginning, one for the middle, and one for the end. She did it beautifully. Glory to God :)

 

To clarify for the previous commenter, TWTM says she should be writing part of the narration and I should do part of it, so that's how we've been doing it. However, it's not the actually act of putting pen to paper that wears her out--it's the synthesis of ideas, so that's where I took all of your input and revised my method. I think I've done this before but my expectations have this crazy habit of going off the chart without me realizing it, so I have to rein them back in and that's exactly what our "crisis" and your feedback helped me to do.

 

Science also went very well. We studied fossils and I just had her write one sentence defining a fossil, which I guided her through aloud first, refining her ideas into a more concise sentence (which equals less and better writing for her).

 

One thing I didn't mention is that I think my being a writer both helps and hinders this process. I spent a year teaching freshman at a Christian school and I was appalled at their lack of writing skills. I've been very concerned about this area so that's one reason I wanted to lay a solid early foundation, and why I prefer classical to Charlotte Mason.

 

I stayed up late reading and researching, and I was thinking of changing curriculum (select parts or getting a package--pricey and nothing feels like a total right fit), but today I realized that our materials are fine, it's just me that needs to handle them differently. I really do love TWTM and so does my daughter--we had a conversation about it and she made it clear that she likes the books we're using for every subject. I had thought about changing out FLL for something more workbook-ey but she protested, and when I asked why, she said "I like the sound of your voice." That's enough to melt any mother's heart :001_wub: