Why did you choose the Latin curriculum you are using?

[MichelleWI]

My head is spinning with all the choices that are available.

 

My daughter is in 9th grade and has no background in Latin. I would like to give her two years of Latin, then she can continue beyond that if she has an interest in doing so.

 

I posted a few days ago and Lisa and Gwen shared their opinions. (Thank you. :) ) Their responses encouraged me to dig a little deeper before making a final decision.

 

What Latin curricula have you chosen to use and why? Which curricula would you avoid?

[Karenciavo]

I am beta testing the new upper level Latin program for Classical Academic Press called Latin Alive! I think it is very well done. It should be available early summer. You can download a sample at the link above.

 

Karen

[Nan in Mass]

We use Ecce Romani. It is reading-based. We are enjoying the stories, which are about a family in the first two books. It uses some whole-to-parts approach and yet the grammar is explicitly taught. It has lots of great pictures and fun bits like history, maps, Latin graffitti, sayings, and quotes sprinkled throughout. It includes derivations. It has a workbook so there are plenty of excersizes to practise with. In other words, it is fairly easy for me, with no Latin, to teach from, fun, and it approaches Latin from enough directions that we understand it. Some people find it frustrating because it introduces new grammar in the stories before it teaches you how to use that grammar, and after each story, there are questions in Latin that you answer in Latin by taking the answer from the story. At that point, you may even use the new grammar before it has been taught. Anyone too hung up on answering those questions completely correctly might find this frustrating. I don't fuss too much over getting the grammar of my children's answers exactly correct at that point. That excersize is meant to get the children using their Latin orally, and their answers aren't always correct as far as the newest of the grammar goes. For my children, though, who tend to look at languages as a means to communicate and are willing to use what they know more creatively than authentically, and who need to see things used in context in order to understand them, this curriculum, with its whole-to-parts then parts-to-whole method, works well.

 

Each lesson usually consists of a story (we listen to this read aloud from the cassette tape while following along in the text 3 or 4 times in a row until we understand what is happening), a vocabulary list (this is usually very easy to memorize because we use it so much and old vocab keeps getting used in the stories), a set of questions about the story in Latin to be answered in Latin (we do these right after we've listened to the story), some grammar explained (includes tables, this part you eventually have to memorize or you will hit a wall later), an excersize where you find that grammar in the story (this is the in-context stuff my children need and eases you into using the grammar on your own), some excersizes like fill in the blank or choose the right answer or rewrite or combine these sentences and translate them, and an excersize where you translate English to Latin using the new grammar.

 

It has three levels and is meant to be used in 7th, 8th, and 9th grades. I have no trouble claiming high school credit for all of the levels, and I also had no trouble teaching it to a younger child. The younger one memorizes the vocab more easily and until recently sort of winged the grammar by "what sounded right". That doesn't seem to be handicapping him now that he has decided all that grammar stuff might actually be useful after all GRIN. The older one has more trouble remembering the vocabulary but understood the grammar from the beginning. I am happy that the many-angled approach of the curriculum seems to be accommodating them wherever they happen to be each year. We pore over the pictures. Our end goal is to be able to read Latin. It has turned out that we have gotten many other things from this curriculum, too, for which I didn't exactly aim but am now grateful. It is teaching how to learn from a text book, how to study, English grammar (we aren't bothering to do any), it made them write enough that the writing process became easier, English vocabulary, history (not just the wars and emperors but the fun bits like how to spin), map reading skills, and best of all, it has made people from long ago seem like real live people with very modern-seeming problems with welfare and lawyers and teenagers.

 

A big drawback of the program is that is expensive.

 

And that is probably more than you ever wanted to know about Latin at our house.

-Nan

[Kathy in MD]

I am beta testing the new upper level Latin program for Classical Academic Press called Latin Alive! I think it is very well done. It should be available early summer. You can download a sample at the link above.

 

Karen

 

 

will be worth 3 credits? I believe that it's designed for middle school, so I wasn't sure.

 

Also will it need much (read any) teacher support? I don't know Latin at all. I can help my ds reason through things and grade with a good key, but I lack any expert knowlege. I'm hoping that a video will come out within a year.

[ddandgirls]

We actually do use the Latin road to English grammar and my daughter loves it. She is not normally a drill and repetition type child, but she likes the format and knowing what to expect each lesson. We tried Prima Latina when she was younger and she hated it. She likes learning the parts of speech so she can read and create sentences. Most programs start you with vocabulary of nouns, but you can't do anything with them. I'm sure we will switch to something else after this to continue, but this was a good way to start and give her the confidence that she can learn another language.

 

I have no background whatsoever in Latin and was intimitaded to teach it but you need to look at each program and style and see what you think your child will like. A program itself may be terrific, but if your child hates it they will learn nothing and dislike the subject. Not every program works for every child as you know.

 

JMHO-

D-

[Karenciavo]

will be worth 3 credits? I believe that it's designed for middle school, so I wasn't sure.

 

Also will it need much (read any) teacher support? I don't know Latin at all. I can help my ds reason through things and grade with a good key, but I lack any expert knowlege. I'm hoping that a video will come out within a year.

 

It's designed for advanced middle school and high school. If a middle school student has gone through LFC-A thru C they could easily move into Latin Alive!, but I wouldn't necessarily start a 6th or 7th grader with it. I've used standard high school texts before, e.g. Latin for Americans, and it is comparable as far as workload goes.

[Kathy in MD]

nt

[Antonia]

We started with Latina Christiana, but, while my kids learned a lot of vocab, they were frustrated with feeling like nothing made sense. I decided to move on to Cambridge Latin because I liked the reading and translating aspect. They have learned a lot and enjoy it much more.

[Crissy]

My younger one is using Latin Prep, the older son is using Lingua Latina.

We started Latin with programs which focused on vocabulary and declension memorization. We switched because we were ready to use the language. Both of the books mentioned above have plenty of translation work (in fact, LL has no English whatsoever) and my guys are really enjoying the subject now.

[LisaNY]

Michelle, you would need to determine what would be the best way for your dd to learn Latin. Some people, (like myself) prefer a curriculum that is more whole-to-parts, such as Lingua Latina, Cambridge, and Ecce Romani. These programs teach the grammar, in small increments, within the context of a running storyline. The student is exposed to the grammar via readings, and then learns about the new grammar more explicitly after the reading. However, the grammar is only taught as it is used in the story. Whole paradigms are not taught right away. The focus of these programs is in getting students to read "Latin as Latin". The grammar is simply a means to that end, but it does not drive the program.

 

The most popular parts-to-whole programs include Henle, Galore Park's Latin Prep, & Wheelock's. These are your standard grammar/translation texts. The grammar is taught, explicity, right up front. The student then practices the grammar via sentence and story translations from Latin to English and English to Latin. Whole paradigms are covered right away. Each of the above programs teach a little differently. Henle focuses mostly on the first five noun declensions, and gets to the verb conjugations a bit later. There is also a shorter vocabulary list than what Wheelock's teaches. I think this is a *positive* point. The student is not overwhelmed with vocabulary while tackling the Latin grammar.

 

To combine the "best of both worlds", a combination of the two approaches works out very nicely. Most people choose one of the standard g/t texts, and dovetail it with readings from one of the natural/immersion texts. This way, you are meeting the needs of both types of learners. However, it is best to get a good run going with the g/t text before dipping into LL, etc.

 

I started out with Latina Christiana w/my younger dd. She hated it. She couldn't understand what the heck was going on. I then used Lingua Latina with her for a while, but she had trouble with that as well. She could understand the stories, and could even summarize the story, in Latin. I decided to take a break from LL and began using Henle with her. She loves it, and appreciates the review and drill of the grammar. I am currently using Cambridge as a reader, but plan to go back to Lingua Latina in the very near future.

 

Not intending to muddy the waters, but I started out with Henle and hit a wall at Unit 5. I could NOT get a handle on the Latin grammar. I picked up Lingua Latina, and it was a much better fit for me. I needed to see the grammar in context before I could really understand it.

[Nan in Mass]

Strictly for myself, Lingua Latina would be the best choice. I understood the grammar explainations and learning the Latin completely by reading works best for me. I can't use it with the children though.

 

We also tried Latin Primer, which is about as far in the other direction as you can get from Lingua Latina. I hated it (the children didn't mind it) and it didn't work because we need to keep using what we learn or we forget it. We're seive-brained here. That is why it is so important for us to have a reading-based method.

 

The other thing I've looked at is Cambridge, which I've used occasionally when one child was away and I was trying not to let the other one forget their Latin. We use it as a reader, also. It is part way between Lingua Latina and Ecce Roman. It teaches the grammar broken up into smaller parts than Ecce Romani, which has you memorizing whole tables at once after the first few chapters, but contains specific vocab lists and has less reading than LL. LL had tons of reading. That's why it works. For us, ER combines the best of both worlds, but I remember one person here complaining that ER didn't contain enough reading to be reading based or enough grammar to be grammar based, making it fall between the two methods and not work. I think it probably depends how you teach it. My children are supposed to read the story twice every night, and I read them the grammar explainations and we talk about them until they understand them. I try to do the book excersizes orally and have them do the workbook on their own, although we don't always have time to do it that way. At any rate, we do quite a lot together either orally or with the blackboard, and usually by the time they've each done a few sentences, they understand. I've only found one place so far where the explanation in the book wasn't enough for me to figure out how it worked and we're almost through Book 2. I have heard of people using ER independently, but I think mostly it is meant to be taught. My children don't seem to learn much unless we read the lesson together, do some of the excersizes together, and then do some of the excersizes independently. I think perhaps the reason Henle is so popular is that it can be used more independently? I haven't seen it. It might be something to check out, though. Latin for Children has videos which help with the teaching. So does Latin Primer.

-Nan

[MichelleWI]

Thank you all for your excellent advice.

 

I believe we are going to proceed with The Latin Road to English Grammar. :)

[Jane in NC]

But I will note that I use Oxford Latin as recommended in the first edition of TWTM. (That recommendation has since changed, but I had picked up the Oxford series on sale.)

 

My son had a gentle introduction in late elementary school to Latin via Minimus and The Latin Primer. He spent 7th and 8th grade doing Oxford I, completed Oxford II in 9th, and doesn't have much left in Oxford III which he has been doing this year in 10th. In addition he has been working through Latin Mythica from Bolchazy, which he enjoys since he likes to read Latin. I like the grammar questions in the Mythica book which present a good review.

 

I feel that we have neglected Latin poetry (although Oxford III does have some of Horace's works). The plan for next year is to use two of Bolchazy's Legamus transitional readers (Ovid and Catullus), then move to their AP level Cicero workbook. He'll round out his senior year with Vergil.

 

We have chosen programs that are not grammar driven but have the students reading from day one. This has come with a price, since my son may not spit out all of the subjunctive verb endings at the drop of a hat, but he does get the gyst of reading long passages in Latin. I think that he would have rebelled with a grammar driven program but that is his personality. I did want to mention Bolchazy as a source of both curricular and supplementary materials. Great stuff.

 

Jane

[Barb_]

Jane, thank you for this post. My 9th grade daughter is just starting book three in Oxford Latin for the same reasons you mentioned. She likes the immersion style and thought the parts to whole style was Chinese water torture (for those of you that remember my Henle posts, she has decided to forgo the Henle altogether and stick with Oxford's grammar exercises for review). Will your son be using the Oxford Latin Reader?

 

Would you post ISBN's or links to the other books you mentioned? I've often wondered what we would do next since dd #1 wasn't interested in going further than Latin 2.

 

Barb

 

But I will note that I use Oxford Latin as recommended in the first edition of TWTM. (That recommendation has since changed, but I had picked up the Oxford series on sale.)

 

My son had a gentle introduction in late elementary school to Latin via Minimus and The Latin Primer. He spent 7th and 8th grade doing Oxford I, completed Oxford II in 9th, and doesn't have much left in Oxford III which he has been doing this year in 10th. In addition he has been working through Latin Mythica from Bolchazy, which he enjoys since he likes to read Latin. I like the grammar questions in the Mythica book which present a good review.

 

I feel that we have neglected Latin poetry (although Oxford III does have some of Horace's works). The plan for next year is to use two of Bolchazy's Legamus transitional readers (Ovid and Catullus), then move to their AP level Cicero workbook. He'll round out his senior year with Vergil.

 

We have chosen programs that are not grammar driven but have the students reading from day one. This has come with a price, since my son may not spit out all of the subjunctive verb endings at the drop of a hat, but he does get the gyst of reading long passages in Latin. I think that he would have rebelled with a grammar driven program but that is his personality. I did want to mention Bolchazy as a source of both curricular and supplementary materials. Great stuff.

 

Jane

[Jane in NC]

Hi Barb,

 

Subject to change, of course, but I think we are going to stick with the Bolchazy materials and not use the Oxford Latin Reader. Its Table of Contents (http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ClassicalStudies/ClassicalLanguages/Latin/?view=usa&sf=toc&ci=9780195212099)

shows that readings include Cicero, Caesar, Catullus, Virgil, Livy and Ovid. We are leaving Virgil for the following year and focusing on Catullus, Ovid and Cicero through the Bolchazy books.

 

Let me give you some links with more info (and ISBNs): Latin Mythica is an Intermediate Reader which I think offers a nice, fun break from Oxford III. http://www.bolchazy.com/prod.php?cat=latin&id=5998

 

At Bolchazy, you will also find their new Legamus series of Intermediate Readers. Catulus is in my possession while Ovid is on back order. Bolchazy developed these Legamus readers to fill what they thought was a need for students transitioning between the world of artificial textbook Latin to the real deal. In particular, I find that poetry requires some handholding namely because of the conventions that are used (skipped words, literary devices, etc.) What the Catullus Legamus book does (and please note that I have only examined it--not implemented the book!) is provide vocabulary reminders, historical and literary notes and grammar review before each of 18 different poems. In the preface, the authors note that these readers could be used as supplements in high school or college courses or several could be used to form a survey course.

 

http://www.bolchazy.com/prod.php?cat=latin&id=634X

 

My plan is to use two Legamus readers then step it up to a more advanced level. http://www.bolchazy.com/prod.php?cat=latin&id=6439 This is an AP Latin Literature workbook. If you go to the College Board website, you'll see that AP Latin Lit has students follow one of three syllabi: Catullus-Cicero, Catullus-Horace, or Catullus-Ovid. My intention is not for him to take the AP Lit test next year (although he will most likely do the NLE Level 4 Poetry), but to have a solid foundation in these authors so that he could continue studies in that direction if he prefers. Frankly I don't think that we could adequately jump into an advanced study of Latin poetry at this point so I hope that the transitional path works.

 

Jane

[Nan in Mass]

Right - one of the first considerations in a Latin program is fun. If the child hates it, it defeats the purpose, at least for us, since our goal is to have them read Latin the rest of their lives.

[Barb_]

Hi Barb,

 

Subject to change, of course, but I think we are going to stick with the Bolchazy materials and not use the Oxford Latin Reader...... Frankly I don't think that we could adequately jump into an advanced study of Latin poetry at this point so I hope that the transitional path works.

Jane

 

Jane, this is a fantastic list of resources--thank you taking the time to post them all. This will round out our Latin studies so nicely :001_smile:

BTW, would you say Latin Mythica is doable after book II is complete, or should she wait until she is well into book three? She just started it in the last week or so.

 

Barb

[Rachel]

We are using Henle Latin with Mother of Divine Grace's guide.

 

I like Henle's straight up approach, and we didn't want to do all the history that is a part of so many other programs as we had already done it to death. I also needed something my son could be independent on most of the time........and it has proven to be so. He has done well with it and for his A-type, logical brain he likes the way it is broken up.

[Jane in NC]

BTW, would you say Latin Mythica is doable after book II is complete, or should she wait until she is well into book three? She just started it in the last week or so.

 

Barb

 

Latin Mythica is definitely doable after Book II. Vocabulary is given on a facing page so the reading comprehension part should not be a challenge. The grammatical complexity of the readings increases. If an answer to a grammar question is not apparent, my son can figure it out by consulting the grammar pages in the back of the Oxford text.

 

What I have particularly enjoyed about this book are the discussion questions. For example, the Ovidian flood myth involving Deucalion and Pyrrha is contrasted with Gilgamesh and the biblical Noah. Sources are cited so one could tie this into one's literature program quite nicely.

 

I learned about the Bolchazy products on this board and have been very impressed by them.

 

Jane

[Quiver0f10]

I didn't see Latin in the Christian Trivium mentioned and I wondered how it would compare to some of the other programs mentioned. Is it a parts to whole type program? ( I hope I said that right lol).

 

Thanks!

[MichelleWI]

Our final decision was reached by considering numerous factors, but one reason we chose LRtEG over Latin in the Christian Trivium is because the latter suggested Latina Christiana 1 be covered first. I didn't want the added time and expense.

 

We still may use Latina Christiana with our two middle children before they reach high school age and move into LRtEG. I've only just decided upon LRtEG and am not ready for another decision right now. We have time.

 

I thought I had posted a link to a review, but I don't see it in a quick review of this thread.

 

HomeschoolChristian.com's Latin Comparison Chart

[Laura R (FL)]

My 8th grader is using Latin in the Christian Trivium for high school credit. I believe it is a parts-to-whole program, set up much like the Latina Christiana programs. There is a vocab list, endings to memorize, translation practice, and reading selections.

 

I chose this program for a couple of reasons:

 

*My children had gone through Prima Latina and LC I, so I wanted to continue with an ecclesiastical program.

*I liked that it centered around a Roman family as opposed to many stories of Roman history. Of course it covers history and culture, but doesn't emphasize it so heavily. My girls dreaded stories of battles and bloody wars.

*There was an on-line class offered with the text.

 

I also have the Bolchazy curriculum and while I like it very much, I don't think my daughter would be disciplined enough to do it on her own.

[Sweetpeach]

Sorry!